MBB: Duke 88, BC 49 Post-Game Thread

[howardlander]

I noticed Wendell dribbled into the lane 2-3 times this game and instead of forcing up a shot in traffic, he kicked it back outside as the defense collapsed. Loved seeing this development. And with this threat to drive and kick, he will see more open scoring opportunities.

Not just Wendell: did anyone on the team actually take a bad shot against BC? I don't remember any.

[uh_no]

Not just Wendell: did anyone on the team actually take a bad shot against BC? I don't remember any.

wendell did IMO. at one point in the second half he had a fade-away 2 on the bench side of the key that was well short after getting stuffed on a drive. It wasn't awful, by any stretch, but I think it was far more of a difficult shot than was necessary given the ease with which we were scoring on most trips.

It depends on your bar for "bad" i suppose. I guess maybe it wasn't a bad shot given i didn't say "ughhhh" but i hardly kvetch over shots like that in a blowout.

[howardlander]

wendell did IMO. at one point in the second half he had a fade-away 2 on the bench side of the key that was well short after getting stuffed on a drive. It wasn't awful, by any stretch, but I think it was far more of a difficult shot than was necessary given the ease with which we were scoring on most trips.

It depends on your bar for "bad" i suppose. I guess maybe it wasn't a bad shot given i didn't say "ughhhh" but i hardly kvetch over shots like that in a blowout.

Yeah now that you mention it, I think you are right about that. But my basic point was that that was about the most efficient offensive performance I can remember. Almost every possession ended up in a good shot and you just don't see that very often.

[sagegrouse]

The league not only has listed the regular season champions on its website (which appears to be down right now so I can't provide a link), but also gives out a trophy. Though it's a poor picture, here is the trophy case from JPJ arena, showing UVA's recent regular season trophies along with their tournament trophies.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqraZUCX4AAsNoO.jpg:large

The story has been told here a number of times. Clemson finished first in the regular season in 1990 -- a team with Dale Davis and Elden Campbell up front. Cliff Ellis asked the other coaches if the ACC could recognize the regular season championship, since "we've never won anything else." (Or some such quote.)

Kindly,
Sage
'Wasn't that the Clemson team that lost to UConn in the Sweet Sixteen at the buzzer on a long pass and a 15-foot shot when there was only one second left. It may (or may not) have led to the adaptation of tenths of seconds in last minute of the game or OT. The next game was UConn-Duke and the first of Laettner's miracle shots -- in OT at the buzzer on the "Special" play'

[Kedsy]

I'd rather win the ACC regular season championship (whether it exists or not). That is because I believe that the ACC Regular Season champion is almost always guaranteed to get a #1 seed in the NCAAT by virtue of what that means they just did in usually one of the top conferences (many years the top conference).

In the past 20 years, we have had 24 regular season champions (because we had co-champions in four of those seasons). Of those 24 teams, 17 got #1 seeds and 7 did not, meaning 71% got #1 seeds*. In that same time frame, we had 20 tournament champions. Of those 20 teams, 13 got #1 seeds and 7 did not, meaning 65% got #1 seeds.

So, regular season champion has a slight edge over tournament champion when it comes to getting a #1 seed, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "almost always" or "guaranteed."



* if you count the co-champions each as a half, then in the 20 seasons there were 14.5 #1 seeds and 5.5 not, or 72.5%. Still doesn't rise to the level of "almost always" or "guaranteed," IMO.

[CDu]

In the past 20 years, we have had 24 regular season champions (because we had co-champions in four of those seasons). Of those 24 teams, 17 got #1 seeds and 7 did not, meaning 71% got #1 seeds*. In that same time frame, we had 20 tournament champions. Of those 20 teams, 13 got #1 seeds and 7 did not, meaning 65% got #1 seeds.

So, regular season champion has a slight edge over tournament champion when it comes to getting a #1 seed, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "almost always" or "guaranteed."



* if you count the co-champions each as a half, then in the 20 seasons there were 14.5 #1 seeds and 5.5 not, or 72.5%. Still doesn't rise to the level of "almost always" or "guaranteed," IMO.

Just playing devil’s advocate here, because I don’t care one way or the other. But one could also look at it and say that an ACC regular season champ has gotten a #1 seed in 85% of the past 20 seasons unless multiple cochamps each got 1 seeds.

And I would venture that close to 100% of seasons a regular season champ got a 1 or 2 seed.

[TKG]

Sounds like the wishlist for 85% of athletic college wings (see Henderson, Gerald, for example) over the past 10-15 years with hopes of making it in the League.

I was going to reference GH in my post but thought I might get taken to task over GH’s superior athleticism (compared to WM).

[elvis14]

The story has been told here a number of times. Clemson finished first in the regular season in 1990 -- a team with Dale Davis and Elden Campbell up front. Cliff Ellis asked the other coaches if the ACC could recognize the regular season championship, since "we've never won anything else." (Or some such quote.)

Kindly,
Sage
'Wasn't that the Clemson team that lost to UConn in the Sweet Sixteen at the buzzer on a long pass and a 15-foot shot when there was only one second left. It may (or may not) have led to the adaptation of tenths of seconds in last minute of the game or OT. The next game was UConn-Duke and the first of Laettner's miracle shots -- in OT at the buzzer on the "Special" play'

I was in grad school at Clemson in '90 and yes we had Dale and Elden and a pretty good team. And yes, Clemson lost to UConn on that long pass and buzzer beater. And yes, I was pretty upset about it. It's not often Clemson is good at basketball (I literally can't tell you a single player on their roster right now). I just need them to be good for 1 day this month, just one @#$ing day!!!!

[devildeac]

I was in grad school at Clemson in '90 and yes we had Dale and Elden and a pretty good team. And yes, Clemson lost to UConn on that long pass and buzzer beater. And yes, I was pretty upset about it. It's not often Clemson is good at basketball (I literally can't tell you a single player on their roster right now). I just need them to be good for 1 day this month, just one @#$ing day!!!!

Last edited by elvis14; Today at 10:44 AM. Reason: left a word out

@#$ing is not a word.

[BD80]

Last edited by elvis14; Today at 10:44 AM. Reason: left a word out

@#$ing is not a word.

A state of mind?

[elvis14]

Last edited by elvis14; Today at 10:44 AM. Reason: left a word out

@#$ing is not a word.

I'll have to double check on that!

A state of mind?

Every single time Clemson has played at Cheater Hill, sadly.

[devildeac]

A state of mind?

Nah, you're thinking of NY (and possibly Ohio; from another thread, of course).

[Kedsy]

Just playing devil’s advocate here, because I don’t care one way or the other. But one could also look at it and say that an ACC regular season champ has gotten a #1 seed in 85% of the past 20 seasons unless multiple cochamps each got 1 seeds.

And I would venture that close to 100% of seasons a regular season champ got a 1 or 2 seed.

Well, the origin of this discussion was when someone said they'd rather be regular season champs because the regular season champ "almost always" is "guaranteed" to get a #1 seed. In that light, I'm not sure why we should ignore co-champions who didn't get a #1 seed. And with that in mind, two co-champions in the past 20 years were #4 seeds and one was a #2 seed.

Putting that aside, four regular season sole champions in the last 20 years did not get #1 seeds (2015 UVa, 2013 Miami, 2011 UNC, and 2003 Wake Forest; and, yes, they all got #2 seeds), which would be 80% (not 85%).

Finally (and this is directed at the original idea and not your post), I don't think there's any reasonable evidence that winning the regular season championship has much bearing on getting a #1 seed, if any. A much more reliable indicator would be finishing in the final AP top 5, for example. In the past 20 seasons, 23 ACC teams have been top 5 in the final AP poll. Of those, 21 have been #1 seeds (over 91%). To me, that's "almost always."

In the 20-year period, ACC regular season champs (including co-champs) who were in the AP top 5 got a #1 seed in 15 of 16 instances (94%). ACC regular season champs (including co-champs) that did not finish in the AP top 5 only got #1 seeds in 2 of 8 instances (25%). On the other hand, AP top 5 teams that were not ACC regular season champs (or co-champs) got #1 seeds in 6 of 7 instances (86%).

In other words, to get a #1 seed, you generally have to be a really good team. Most regular season ACC champions are really good teams, but it's probably not the best indicator, certainly not as good as being an AP top 5 team (and I'm sure there are other better indicators as well). And, as I said above, I don't believe that winning the regular season championship boosts a team's chance of a #1 seed to any significant degree.

[uh_no]

K’s presser is interesting. This decade has been his best ever as Duke’s coach including the early exits from the NCAA. He also had some nice words about Derryck Thornton. Good kid, smart, nice family, wished he had stayed at Duke. K is a class act...

for those who didn't see, this is what K said (via the chron)

“I love Derryck," Krzyzewski said. "Derryck is a great kid and he represented us well while he was here. He started 20 games for us, did his academic responsibilities, then he went to a heck of a school, [Southern California], and now he’s at another really good school. He’s an outstanding player. I would have rather had him stay in our program, but I don’t hold anything against him."

We all know the story and subtext at this point. I imagine the bolded point is mutual...he could be on his way to the league right now instead of having very little in terms of prospects. No doubt in my mind he'd be better positioned for the future if he'd stayed. His uncle or whoever really screwed his career by pushing him to leave. Shows the importance of trusting the right people, and a shame that a family member pushed him the wrong way.

[CDu]

No doubt in my mind he'd be better positioned for the future if he'd stayed. His uncle or whoever really screwed his career by pushing him to leave. Shows the importance of trusting the right people, and a shame that a family member pushed him the wrong way.

Well, he'd have graduated and exhausted his eligibility by now if he had stayed. But yeah, clearly the fact that he transferred away from USC to a school even further from home (and one with nearly infinitely less bball prestige than Duke) suggests that they recognized the transfer was a mistake.