Vernon Carey Jr.

[jimsumner]

While I’m not going to try to argue with Jim (because I will certainly lose), I’ll throw out that Pistol Pete averaged 44.2 ppg in his three years and that was well before the three point shot. Averaged 6.5 rpg and 5.1 apg as well.

Not saying he’s better — saying it is a race.

You'll be arguing with yourself.

It's a team game.

Maravich's teams never came close to winning anything of consequence and he did not make his teammates better.

I've been down this road way too many times and I'm not going to bother anymore.

[OldPhiKap]

You'll be arguing with yourself.

It's a team game.

Maravich's teams never came close to winning anything of consequence and he did not make his teammates better.

I've been down this road way too many times and I'm not going to bother anymore.

And not trying to draw you into one. As I said, I respect your opinion and not looking to debate.

(although Pete’s apg must mean he did something for his teammates . . . . ;-) ).

[mattyoung18]

Are you only addressing the ACC? Otherwise,
I definitely have Bill Walton on my list.

I think Christian was Duke’s best. In the ACC, I’d add Sampson and Bias to the second line. Thompson was in his own league.

The best of college hoops... Thompson vs. Walton.

I think god almost ever day I grew up watching Laettner play. Most clutch player ever.

[UrinalCake]

So today’s game highlighted some of Carey’s limitations, which is that he can’t guard a small center out to the perimeter, and on the other end he couldn’t fully take advantage because he was double and triple teamed every time he touched the ball. It was the right play to take.m him out of the game. But then again, not many NBA teams will be running out a 6’5 center.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Numbers to numbers, Zion was better as a freshman than Laettner was in ANY year.

Numbers to numbers? Try this
Laettner 4 Final Fours
Laettner 10-10 and 10-10 for 31
Laettner 2 nattys
Laettner 2 Regional Finals game winners

love Zion to death, but Laettner had one of the best, if not the best, college career ever. He certainly had the best NCAA career ever. And FWIW, Laettner did it while universally despised except by Duke fans.

[uh_no]

Numbers to numbers? Try this
Laettner 4 Final Fours
Laettner 10-10 and 10-10 for 31
Laettner 2 nattys
Laettner 2 Regional Finals game winners

love Zion to death, but Laettner had one of the best, if not the best, college career ever. He certainly had the best NCAA career ever. And FWIW, Laettner did it while universally despised except by Duke fans.

laettner won 2 nattys in one year? impressive

[Bob Green]

laettner won 2 nattys in one year? impressive

Personally, I discount all OAD players from all “greatest ever” discussions. This era will end at some point and I am solidly in the sooner the better club.

Let them go straight to the NBA instead of making a mockery out of the term student-athlete. Basketball needs to follow the football/baseball model.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

laettner won 2 nattys in one year? impressive

I reject the whole premise of comparing 1 year players to 4 year players, and reject the notion that a 1 year player can be "the greatest ever" of anything other than one year players. Is Zion the greatest one year player Duke has had? Absolutely. Is the he greatest one year player in college? Perhaps, but cases can be made for Melo and Anthony Davis. Is team success the guiding principle in assessing these? No, but it is a factor to consider.

[dukelifer]

Numbers to numbers? Try this
Laettner 4 Final Fours
Laettner 10-10 and 10-10 for 31
Laettner 2 nattys
Laettner 2 Regional Finals game winners

love Zion to death, but Laettner had one of the best, if not the best, college career ever. He certainly had the best NCAA career ever. And FWIW, Laettner did it while universally despised except by Duke fans.

Even disliked by a few teammates

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Even disliked by a few teammates

Maybe disliked, but certainly respected.

[DukeDTD]

How about leadership? The will to win? Refuse to lose?

I’ll take Laettner every day of the week and twice on national championship night.

Same. There is certainly no comparison in terms of what each did for Duke basketball.

[DukeDTD]

Personally, I discount all OAD players from all “greatest ever” discussions. This era will end at some point and I am solidly in the sooner the better club.

Let them go straight to the NBA instead of making a mockery out of the term student-athlete. Basketball needs to follow the football/baseball model.

Amen. We actually recruit and admit kids to a top 10 university knowing that they have no intention of graduating. As a Duke fan (and grad), I was always proud to know that we took the academic high ground. K used to not even hang banners until all members of that year's senior class graduated. Cannot take the high ground any more. We sold out. Hard to point the finger at the Heels academic issues with the mockery that OAD makes of the academic part of student athlete

Fortunately, every other sport, including football has an academic profile worthy of a top 10 university.

[kAzE]

This is a semantics argument. There's zero doubt Laettner had the better college career. He played 4 years. Of course he had more titles and accolades. The "best" player can be measured different ways. If you mean who had the better college career, Laettner is the easy choice. If you mean who is actually the most talented player, capable of having the most successful basketball career (college and pros combined), then it's easily Zion.

I love college basketball, but I'm just a basketball fan, and I love the NBA as well, so I usually don't look at these things with only college in mind. That was the approach I took, and that's why my answer was Zion first, then Laettner, then Elton Brand. And really, I think Laettner could have had a MUCH better pro career if a few things went differently for him, especially if he hadn't injured his achilles. He came in to the NBA 25 years too early. In the current NBA, he would be a perennial All-Star as one of the best stretch bigs in the league.

Many of Duke's best have had their pro careers ruined by injuries, Grant, Laettner, Elton, Bobby, J-Will. Gotta hope Zion can overcome this.

[ChillinDuke]

This is a semantics argument. There's zero doubt Laettner had the better college career. He played 4 years. Of course he had more titles and accolades. The "best" player can be measured different ways. If you mean who had the better college career, Laettner is the easy choice. If you mean who is actually the most talented player, capable of having the most successful basketball career (college and pros combined), then it's easily Zion.

I love college basketball, but I'm just a basketball fan, and I love the NBA as well, so I usually don't look at these things with only college in mind. That was the approach I took, and that's why my answer was Zion first, then Laettner, then Elton Brand. And honestly, Laettner was 20 years too early. In the current NBA, he would be a perennial All-Star as one of the best stretch bigs in the league.

I agree with this entirely.

Further emphasizing Zion Williamson as a player (and not as an accomplisher), what he did on the court was truly otherworldly. Rarely, if ever, has a player made me hold my breath by simply holding a basketball on the court. Many players can do it for moments in time, even sequences. But Zion did it for entire games, really an entire season. He was and is appointment television. Laettner, while an incredible collegiate accomplisher, was a mere mortal on the court by comparison. A sensational mortal, but a mortal nonetheless.

Hyperbole aside, if Zion can stay healthy in the NBA, I believe he is likely to have the best basketball career of any Duke player ever. Standing at today, that's unfortunately a big if. But his play in Summer League was an easy glimpse into how dominant he can be, already, in the NBA. I can't wait to see him suit up in the next couple weeks.

- Chillin

[jv001]

This is a semantics argument. There's zero doubt Laettner had the better college career. He played 4 years. Of course he had more titles and accolades. The "best" player can be measured different ways. If you mean who had the better college career, Laettner is the easy choice. If you mean who is actually the most talented player, capable of having the most successful basketball career (college and pros combined), then it's easily Zion.

I love college basketball, but I'm just a basketball fan, and I love the NBA as well, so I usually don't look at these things with only college in mind. That was the approach I took, and that's why my answer was Zion first, then Laettner, then Elton Brand. And really, I think Laettner could have had a MUCH better pro career if a few things went differently for him, especially if he hadn't injured his achilles. He came in to the NBA 25 years too early. In the current NBA, he would be a perennial All-Star as one of the best stretch bigs in the league.

Many of Duke's best have had their pro careers ruined by injuries, Grant, Laettner, Elton, Bobby, J-Will. Gotta hope Zion can overcome this.

I would have to put Grant Hill in that conversation as well and he was a 4 year player. However, I don't care that much for the NBA. I do follow the Duke guys but that's about it. I wish for the 3 year baseball rule just like Bob. GoDuke!

[kAzE]

I would have to put Grant Hill in that conversation as well and he was a 4 year player. However, I don't care that much for the NBA. I do follow the Duke guys but that's about it. I wish for the 3 year baseball rule just like Bob. GoDuke!

Obviously Grant is always in the discussion when it comes to the greatest Duke players ever, but he wasn't part of this particular discussion because the premise was the best Duke "big man."

[jv001]

Obviously Grant is always in the discussion when it comes to the greatest Duke players ever, but he wasn't part of this particular discussion because the premise was the best Duke "big man."

Yes, I see your list only had bigs on it. I guess I had Grant on my mind with the Pistol Pete comparisons. GoDuke!

[JNort]

Question #1: Is the best Duke big man since Shelden? or maybe even since Boozer or Elton? (I don't consider Bagley to be a true big man)
I like his game a whole lot. What he did to the purported best big man in the country, Azubuike, was unreal. Love this guy.

Question #2: Does he have stamina issues? I see Coach k subbing him out a lot, particularly late in games when we might need him. Are they short term issues? or long term?

I love a lot of guys on this team, but he's the most impressive, IMO.

Bagley is best a center so I say he's better, Oak is obvious, Zion is a wing/big hybrid but I count him too, MP2 was amazing and better also.

[JNort]

Even with the "back to the basket center" clarification in mind, I still have to think that Bagley should be in there. Yes, he was able to face up and drive, but his main source of offense was still posting up, and we frequently gave it to him in the post, where he was unstoppable. He had great touch going left or right with his back to the basket, and even if he missed, he was getting the offensive board and dunking it before the defenders could even jump once.

So my answer would be Bagley, but if we're excluding him for some reason, I like the all around game of Wendell Carter more than Okafor, Williams, and Boozer as the best "back to the basket traditional center" since Elton Brand. However, I think Okafor probably has the best overall case with his dominance on offense, even though his defense was suspect.

If Vernon continues his current trajectory and also improves, he could be that guy. But I'd probably still take Bagley over him, he was just such a game changer with his quickness.

Lastly, I think Mason Plumlee at least needs a mention in this thread. That guy was a great 4 year player.

This! MP2 was amazing his Sr year and waa fairly close to getting a NPOY award

[jv001]

Bagley is best a center so I say he's better, Oak is obvious, Zion is a wing/big hybrid but I count him too, MP2 was amazing and better also.

Randy Denton was better than any of the Plumlees during their Duke careers. You may not have seen Randy play. Just look at his stats and you'll see how good he was. Didn't have much help though. GoDuke!