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  1. #41
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    It was my understanding that at the time, they had the politicians that forced the state schools to take them with them to the Big Eight/Twelve. Wasnít really anything about the fan base.
    This is 100% true. Ann Richards was Governor and Bob Bullock Lieutenant Governor; both Baylor grads. Also, Rice was pathetic and had been for decades, TCU was almost as pathetic and had been for decades, and SMU post-Death Penalty (1989-94) was also pathetic, and that had more to do with Duke guy Ken Pye than with the DP. If there were to be four teams taken, objectively the fourth should have been UH.

    Baylor was a Big XII doormat for 15 years, then got stratospherically better for several years before letting athletes rape other students with impunity caught up with them. Theyíre good again and usually fill their 45,000-seat stadium, but they are closer to Wake than they are to Alabama.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Iím fine with four.

    What is more interesting ó arguing about who is 4/5, or who is 8/9?
    Arguing about 4/5 is more interesting. But that is the wrong question. #5 often has roughly as strong a case for inclusion as numbers 3 and 4. The same will not be true of #9. Going to 8 will also make room for one G5 team, meaning that, as with the pre-playoff era, every FBS team, like every D1 MBB team, at least starts the season with a shot at the championship.

  3. #43
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Champions of which conferences? MWC (Boise)? American (Cincy/Memphis)? Sun Belt (App)?
    Champions of the P5 conferences, the highest-rated G5 champion, and two at-large.

  4. #44
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    Apr 2011
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    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    Champions of the P5 conferences, the highest-rated G5 champion, and two at-large.
    But 11-2 Cincy (currently ranked 20th) would get in over 12-1 Boise (currently ranked 19th)? By virtue of splitting with Memphis?
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    But 11-2 Cincy (currently ranked 20th) would get in over 12-1 Boise (currently ranked 19th)? By virtue of splitting with Memphis?
    Solely my prediction that UC would deserve it, having beaten Sagarin #18 and 11-1 Memphis on the road this week, and assuming Boise handles #76, four-loss Hawaii. Two losses, one avenged and the other on the road at tOSU (albeit a big margin), outweigh Boiseís loss to 5-loss BYU. Plus, it is a very strong AAC; five teams in the Top 40 and two more before you get to the #2 MWC team at #71 (which isnít even Hawaii).

  6. #46
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    Apr 2011
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    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    Solely my prediction that UC would deserve it, having beaten Sagarin #18 and 11-1 Memphis on the road this week, and assuming Boise handles #76, four-loss Hawaii. Two losses, one avenged and the other on the road at tOSU (albeit a big margin), outweigh Boise’s loss to 5-loss BYU. Plus, it is a very strong AAC; five teams in the Top 40 and two more before you get to the #2 MWC team at #71 (which isn’t even Hawaii).
    Reinflaming the Idaho congressional delegation, and highlighting OPK's point (with which I agree) that debating 4 vs. 5 seems much more interesting than debating 8 vs. 9.

    And then, who are the two at-larges this year? Assume LSU, tOSU, Utah, and Clemson all win, without any particular fireworks (which, of course, introduces the notion of "style points," which adds yet another wrinkle). I would guess it would come down to two of Georgia (recent loser, meaning so much for the notion that "every week is a playoff", plus a loss to South Carolina), Florida (who lost to Georgia and undefeated LSU), Penn St. (losses to Minny and tOSU), and the (recent) loser of the Big XII title game (Baylor or OU).
    Last edited by Tripping William; 12-06-2019 at 08:40 AM.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  7. #47
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    This is 100% true. Ann Richards was Governor and Bob Bullock Lieutenant Governor; both Baylor grads. Also, Rice was pathetic and had been for decades, TCU was almost as pathetic and had been for decades, and SMU post-Death Penalty (1989-94) was also pathetic, and that had more to do with Duke guy Ken Pye than with the DP. If there were to be four teams taken, objectively the fourth should have been UH.

    Baylor was a Big XII doormat for 15 years, then got stratospherically better for several years before letting athletes rape other students with impunity caught up with them. Theyíre good again and usually fill their 45,000-seat stadium, but they are closer to Wake than they are to Alabama.
    And the disdain for newcomer University of Houston by Texas and Texas A&M cannot be underestimated.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  8. #48
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    Nov 2014
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    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    And the disdain for newcomer University of Houston by Texas and Texas A&M cannot be underestimated.
    Thatís true; keeping Houston down was and is a major goal, especially then and especially for A&M. (I strongly dislike UH, fwiw.)

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Reinflaming the Idaho congressional delegation, and highlighting OPK's point (with which I agree) that debating 4 vs. 5 seems much more interesting than debating 8 vs. 9.
    On point 1: how many divisions have the whopping two Idaho Congress critters got?

    On point 2: Absolutely more interesting. Just not fairer. Or better for the game.
    Last edited by AustinDevil; 12-06-2019 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Added a thought

  10. #50
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    Feb 2007
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    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    Thatís true; keeping Houston down was and is a major goal, especially then and especially for A&M. (I strongly dislike UH, fwiw.)
    Why the disdain?

  11. #51
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    Apr 2011
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    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    On point 1: how many divisions have the whopping two Idaho Congress critters got?

    On point 2: Absolutely more interesting. Just not fairer. Or better for the game.
    There are actually four of them now (two Senators, two Congressmen), and they have had at least some history.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on point 2.

    And point 3?
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    Why the disdain?
    If you mean A&M, it was just that they viewed Houston as "their" town (Dallas is more a UT town, though both schools are prominent in both areas) and the chance to leave a local rival behind was tempting.

    If you mean me, it's lots of stories but in general, UH toward other Texas schools has always been quite a bit like Maryland toward other ACC schools.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    There are actually four of them now (two Senators, two Congressmen), and they have had at least some history.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on point 2.

    And point 3?
    On the at-large teams? Far too much depends on unknowns. But if all favorites won the conference-championship games and none were by overwhelming blowouts, then you've got LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Memphis (or Boise, or Cincinnati) and Utah in. Possibly 11-2 Georgia and 11-2 Baylor make the at-large list, neither of which would have two losses--which everyone else already has--but for playing in their conference-championship games.

    At 8 teams, that's a fair outcome and no legitimate contender is shut out, nor is half of the FBS shut out. Unlike what is going to occur with the cutoff at 4.

  14. #54
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    Jun 2009
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    If you mean A&M, it was just that they viewed Houston as "their" town (Dallas is more a UT town, though both schools are prominent in both areas) and the chance to leave a local rival behind was tempting.

    If you mean me, it's lots of stories but in general, UH toward other Texas schools has always been quite a bit like Maryland toward other ACC schools.
    As a former West Texan for 12 years and a resident of Austin for 14, I concur with your thoughts on the University of Houston. Though Iíve never lived in Houston or Dallas, Iíve visited both countless times and have quite a few friends and relatives in each. So I guess my info is secondhand, but it is consistent with what youíre saying. Fair or unfair, U of Houston is kind of an afterthought for most Texans.

  15. #55
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    Feb 2007
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    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    If you mean A&M, it was just that they viewed Houston as "their" town (Dallas is more a UT town, though both schools are prominent in both areas) and the chance to leave a local rival behind was tempting.

    If you mean me, it's lots of stories but in general, UH toward other Texas schools has always been quite a bit like Maryland toward other ACC schools.
    I meant you. I actually went to UH so I know all about A&M. My impression was that Texas people rarely thought much about UH and - as someone who grew up in Texas - I know a ton of them. Everyoneís experience is unique but you are the first one Iíve heard make that particular complaint. Just curious.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    I meant you. I actually went to UH so I know all about A&M. My impression was that Texas people rarely thought much about UH and - as someone who grew up in Texas - I know a ton of them. Everyoneís experience is unique but you are the first one Iíve heard make that particular complaint. Just curious.
    No worries. Can't have rivalries without some combo of respect and disdain.

  17. #57
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    I meant you. I actually went to UH so I know all about A&M. My impression was that Texas people rarely thought much about UH and - as someone who grew up in Texas - I know a ton of them. Everyoneís experience is unique but you are the first one Iíve heard make that particular complaint. Just curious.
    I spent 4+ years at Rice in grad school. Don't believe anything I say about U of H.

    What's happening about plans for UT Houston? A real slap in the face to UH.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I spent 4+ years at Rice in grad school. Don't believe anything I say about U of H.

    What's happening about plans for UT Houston? A real slap in the face to UH.
    The 2017 plan? I believe that UT more or less backed off of that. Fertitta did a good job of exposing and pushing back on it.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Reinflaming the Idaho congressional delegation, and highlighting OPK's point (with which I agree) that debating 4 vs. 5 seems much more interesting than debating 8 vs. 9.

    And then, who are the two at-larges this year? Assume LSU, tOSU, Utah, and Clemson all win, without any particular fireworks (which, of course, introduces the notion of "style points," which adds yet another wrinkle). I would guess it would come down to two of Georgia (recent loser, meaning so much for the notion that "every week is a playoff", plus a loss to South Carolina), Florida (who lost to Georgia and undefeated LSU), Penn St. (losses to Minny and tOSU), and the (recent) loser of the Big XII title game (Baylor or OU).
    The problem with the "every week is a playoff" or the conference championships are de facto play-in/quarter final games argument is they are a poorly seeded, unbalanced playoff. Using the CFP rankings the conference title games are:
    1 Ohio State vs 8 Wisconsin
    2 LSU vs 4 Georgia
    3 Clemson vs 23 Virginia
    5 Utah vs 13 Oregon
    6 Oklahoma vs 7 Baylor

    So LSU's reward for being ranked 1 or 2 every week is to play #4 Georgia, OSU gets a top ten team, and Clemson plays...Virginia.

  20. #60
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmspeaks View Post
    The problem with the "every week is a playoff" or the conference championships are de facto play-in/quarter final games argument is they are a poorly seeded, unbalanced playoff. Using the CFP rankings the conference title games are:
    1 Ohio State vs 8 Wisconsin
    2 LSU vs 4 Georgia
    3 Clemson vs 23 Virginia
    5 Utah vs 13 Oregon
    6 Oklahoma vs 7 Baylor

    So LSU's reward for being ranked 1 or 2 every week is to play #4 Georgia, OSU gets a top ten team, and Clemson plays...Virginia.
    True, but all of the top 8 are playing. They all have their chance to win and maybe move on. And if Whisky, Oklahoma or Baylor win but get knocked out well — two have a bad loss to blame (Whisky v. Illinois; OKlahoma v. Kansas St.). Baylor is the only one that might have a gripe, having only lost to OKlahoma and in this hypothetical having avenged that loss.

    So not sure that a final 4 is worse than a final 8; ergo I like the current playoff without expanding. Better than the old days where no one played each other, and we had to argue about two different teams should be the National Champion without ever being on the same field.
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

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