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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    I'll assume you are kidding, right?
    No?

    Feel free to reply to the rest of my post where I explain my statement if you'd like to actually address my point.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    The idea that Cutcliffe will not make changes to the coaching staff is based largely on a data point from 15 years ago. He does value loyalty but he also values winning football games. Duke has had some coaching turnover and not all of it has been because people jumped for better jobs.
    I suspected as much. Thanks.

    It is hard to believe that a head coach preaching 'accountability' has a blind spot just for assistant coaches.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    The idea that Cutcliffe will not make changes to the coaching staff is based largely on a data point from 15 years ago. He does value loyalty but he also values winning football games. Duke has had some coaching turnover and not all of it has been because people jumped for better jobs.
    Wasn’t “I want to bring my staff with me” one of the primary reasons Cut’s return to the Vols did not happen a few years ago?

  4. #64
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    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    Wasn’t “I want to bring my staff with me” one of the primary reasons Cut’s return to the Vols did not happen a few years ago?
    it was, but those guys were uniformly competent. TBD how Cut deals with the current state of affairs.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    it was, but those guys were uniformly competent. TBD how Cut deals with the current state of affairs.
    We have mostly the same staff we had in 2017 when that was going on.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    We have mostly the same staff we had in 2017 when that was going on.
    true, though Bridge wasn't yet the OL coach

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    What?

    Why would the more recent games be any more "who we are" than ones two months ago?

    I mean, in a way you are correct. Games in September are "who we were then" as much as games last weekend are "who we are this week."

    If you are saying our team's identity is the 7 losses, but not the 4 wins, well... I don't know what to say.

    There's a lot of understandable frustration on this board, but this team never looked like a 9 or 10 win team. If we had made one more good play, we'd be 5-6 and UNC would be 4-7. I suspect that might change some of the angst.
    My concern is related to how we were destroyed from the beginning to the end by UVA, ND and Syracuse as well as by WF on offense and defense last Saturday. I think if we had been marginally competitive in those games this discussion would have a different look. The ole “Wait till next year” slogan is very important now.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Santa Cruz CA
    Quote Originally Posted by duke2x View Post
    By a quick count, which easily could be wrong, there are 72 bowl slots claimed. There are 14 that could be claimed this weekend, and Army must win its 2 remaining games. There are 80 slots this year. Of academic schools that could match Duke's graduation rate, Stanford (4-7) and Army (5-6) are the other competition. Note that UNC (5-6) could also have a high graduation rate but does not count as an academic school in my book.

    We need to beat Miami and to have the 14 schools that are 5-6 to go 7-7 or worse.
    Only 78 slots. The 40th bowl game is the CFP championship game, so only 39 games need to be filled.

    This link is usually updated almost realtime as the games get finished.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E...all_bowl_games

    Of the 13 teams that are needing to win one more game, 6 of them are favored, so it's pretty likely all 78 slots get filled, but not guaranteed. The last two years, there have been 3 or 4 eligible teams that did not get invites. Three years ago, two conditional teams got in.

    Duke is 3rd in APR this year. #1 is Air Force which is eligible already at 9-2. #2 is Northwestern, who are 2-9 this year.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    My concern is related to how we were destroyed from the beginning to the end by UVA, ND and Syracuse at the as well as by WF on offense and defense last Saturday. I think if we had been marginally competitive in those games this discussion would have a different look. The ole “Wait till next year” slogan is very important now.
    Agreed. We have been awful the last few weeks on both sides of the ball, particularly on offense. Wake (a team we should be competitive with) spotted us 14 points on kickoff returns and still beat us soundly for the second year in a row. Syracuse was winless in the conference, but came into WW and absolutely beat us like a drum. We managed a pair of field goals against Cuse; this week, UL hung 55 on them. And we were never at any point in the UVA or ND games. Even the UNC game was absolutely gifted to us on a silver platter and we managed to throw it away.

    The effort on some of our plays vs. Wake was just atrocious. Two to three guys required for every tackle. Secondary repeatedly failing to locate the ball. Linebackers getting run over by RB's. Wake's first TD of the second half was a great example - we blitzed and never even got within 3 yards of the QB, who had all day to throw. He wouldn't need it, because his receiver had not one, but two or three steps on our safety. Boom. 62 yard TD pass that was just waay to easy.

    Sadly, we look more like the teams from the Franks/Roof era right now than we do a typical Cutcliff team.
    "There can BE only one."

  10. #70
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    it was, but those guys were uniformly competent. TBD how Cut deals with the current state of affairs.
    My intent wasn’t to comment on their competence, it was to gently refute the notion that the Ole Miss data point was all we had regarding Cut being unusually eager to protect his staff.

  11. #71
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    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    true, though Bridge wasn't yet the OL coach
    Yeah, but the OL coach in 2016-2017 (Marcus Johnson) was as bad or maybe worse (with no position coaching experience prior to being promoted to OL coach). Not sure how he is doing at Mississippi State in his two years there so far.

  12. #72
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    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Yeah, but the OL coach in 2016-2017 (Marcus Johnson) was as bad or maybe worse (with no position coaching experience prior to being promoted to OL coach). Not sure how he is doing at Mississippi State in his two years there so far.
    maybe it takes time for bad coaching to percolate thru the ranks, who knows? For the past few years, we've had quite a few examples of guys with very limited experience getting position coaching jobs...that may have finally caught up with us...that and having some guys, like Bridge, who just don't seem to be very good...Jeff Faris for example became wide receivers coach after two years of being a grad assistant at Duke, no prior position coaching jobs. This year they brought in Trooper to coach the receivers presumably because we needed help there...

  13. #73
    Our records reflect the relative talent level compared to the other schools in the conference and as compared with other premium academic schools that play Power 5 football.

    We play in the ACC with teams that graduate their players to the NFL, so to speak. Again Duke has 9 ex-players in the NFL who are mostly from the 2012-2016 years.

    Heres the NFL player count for ACC teams from ESPN.com:
    Duke 9
    Wake 9
    Georgia Tech 11
    Syracuse 11
    VT 14
    BC 17
    UVA 17
    Louisville 18
    UNC 21
    NC State 25
    Pitt 25
    Clemson 33
    FSU 39
    Miami 48

    Other comparative schools:
    Northwestern 14
    Vanderbilt 16
    Stanford 32
    ND 38

    While not perfect as a metric our average recruiting ratings are usually in the 50s-80s range.

    Who on this team projects as an all-ACC much less an NFLer? Maybe Monk the OT? Calhoun? Jackson? Dimukuje?

    We can tinker with coaches and play calling but I can't believe for example that the DBs are being coached to never look for the ball. Ever. Not once. Anyway in the end its on the players. When say Pitt lines up with Duke they have 3 future NFL Players to each one of Dukes. When Duke has done well it reflects on the players. Same as where we are now.

  14. #74
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO

    NFL Draft by ACC School -- Old Data but Ugh!

    Six-year-old data but too depressing to update. Here are the NFL draft picks by school for years 2001-2013. Omits Syracuse, L'ville and Pitt and includes Maryland

    DU 2 (as in "two")
    BC 21
    WF 21
    GT 26
    MD 30
    VA 33
    ST 38
    CL 43
    NC 43
    VT 55
    FS 70
    MI 78

    This is clearly a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot table.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Six-year-old data but too depressing to update. Here are the NFL draft picks by school for years 2001-2013. Omits Syracuse, L'ville and Pitt and includes Maryland

    DU 2 (as in "two")
    BC 21
    WF 21
    GT 26
    MD 30
    VA 33
    ST 38
    CL 43
    NC 43
    VT 55
    FS 70
    MI 78

    This is clearly a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot table.
    So, powerhouses BC and Wake have more than 10 fold what Duke has? Wow, what a stat.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Six-year-old data but too depressing to update. Here are the NFL draft picks by school for years 2001-2013. Omits Syracuse, L'ville and Pitt and includes Maryland

    DU 2 (as in "two")
    BC 21
    WF 21
    GT 26
    MD 30
    VA 33
    ST 38
    CL 43
    NC 43
    VT 55
    FS 70
    MI 78

    This is clearly a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot table.
    OK, I’m not pleased with recent performance but you ^cannot* look at that set of years and say it’s representative of the Cut era in any meaningful way.

  17. #77
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    OK, I’m not pleased with recent performance but you ^cannot* look at that set of years and say it’s representative of the Cut era in any meaningful way.
    OK, try this! While I am not going to update the table, here is an additional column of stats -- draft choices per year from 2001-2013:
    Code:
    DU	2	 0.2 
    BC	21	 1.6 
    WF	21	 1.6 
    GT	26	 2.0 
    MD	30	 2.3 
    VA	33	 2.5 
    ST	38	 2.9 
    CL	43	 3.3 
    NC	43	 3.3 
    VT	55	 4.2 
    FS	70	 5.4 
    MI	78	 6.0
    Since 2013 -- six years -- we have had four draft choices, which is 0.7 per draft -- less than one-half of any of the other schools listed in the table.

    Take another look at the last six years. There are from 224 to 256 selections each draft (up to 32 compensatory picks). That's about 1,400 over six years -- four of those 1,400 came from Duke. Now we got quite a few guys in the league who were not drafted, but the lack of players picked should say something about the talent level.

    Now 0.7 per year from 2014-2019 is quite a bit better than 0.2 per year for the 13 preceding years.
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 11-26-2019 at 09:11 AM.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    OK, try this! While I am not going to update the table, here is an additional column of stats -- draft choices per year from 2001-2013:
    Code:
    DU	2	 0.2 
    BC	21	 1.6 
    WF	21	 1.6 
    GT	26	 2.0 
    MD	30	 2.3 
    VA	33	 2.5 
    ST	38	 2.9 
    CL	43	 3.3 
    NC	43	 3.3 
    VT	55	 4.2 
    FS	70	 5.4 
    MI	78	 6.0
    Since 2013 -- six years -- we have had four draft choices, which is 0.7 per draft -- less than one-half of any of the other schools listed in the table.

    Take another look at the last six years. There are from 224 to 256 selections each draft (up to 32 compensatory picks). That's about 1,400 over six years -- four of those 1,400 came from Duke. Now we got quite a few guys in the league who were not drafted, but the lack of players picked should say something about the talent level.

    Now 0.7 per year from 2014-2019 is quite a bit better than 0.2 per year for the 13 preceding years.
    What that also shows me is how much our coaches get out of non-pro talent compared to several others.

    How many five stars do we have on the team right now? Or four stars? We seem to specialize in "diamonds in the rough" three and two stars. Which is not unexpected at a small university with high academic admissions compared to the competition.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    QB is a major unknown next season!

    Holmberg gained zero experience this season due to injury. There is an incoming freshman, Luca Diamont, from Los Angeles who, obviously, will have no experience. Coach Cutcliffe has not opted to give Katrenick significant playing time this year so he appears not to be a viable option.
    This is the biggest reason why extra bowl practice isn't going to help as much this year. While I'm looking forward to seeing his 3rd TD at Duke this Saturday, Katrenick would be your 2020 #1. I hope Diamont decides to graduate HS a semester early.

  20. #80
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    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by duke2x View Post
    This is the biggest reason why extra bowl practice isn't going to help as much this year. While I'm looking forward to seeing his 3rd TD at Duke this Saturday, Katrenick would be your 2020 #1. I hope Diamont decides to graduate HS a semester early.
    I have seen that Holmberg might be able to play in the bowl game, although I don't know if we would want to waste the year of eligibility to get him snaps (although that assumes he'll be granted a 6th year since he already redshirted last season). I don't think Diamont is a clear-cut favorite, I expect it will probably be an open competition between he and Holmberg. I haven't heard whether Diamont plans to enroll early, if not I would assume Holmberg is the starter at least to begin the season.

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