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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area

    Duke 87, Cal 52 Post Game thread

    The defense is a wonder. The offense is coming. Nice to see some guys hit 3s.

    -jk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    The defense is a wonder. The offense is coming. Nice to see some guys hit 3s.

    -jk
    beat down. carey is so quiet...i was shocked when they said he had 19 already. Love it. Much cleaner than last week. Don't necessarily think cal is particularly legit, though. Lets get out with a W tomorrow.
    It's being reported that due to coronavirus fears, Harvard has asked students not to return from spring break, and for classes to be held online.

    Not to be outdone, UNC told students to stop coming to class 27 years ago under Dean Smith.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Vernon Carey = 2nd coming of Marvin Bagley!?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    Vernon Carey = 2nd coming of Marvin Bagley!?
    Or maybe a mixture of Bagley and Wendell Carter? Better defender than Bagley; more explosive than Carter. Carey is quick and strong; jumps well and his second jump is quick (Bagley's second or third jumps were other-worldly quick).

    Carey plays hard but maintains an even temperament; we can see his game growing and his confidence growing. Good stuff.

    **per Scott Van Pelt, Carey is the first player under Coach K to get at least 30 points and 10 rebounds in less than 30 minutes playing time. 31 points, 12 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 22 minutes.
    Last edited by roywhite; 11-21-2019 at 11:27 PM. Reason: interesting stat

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Or maybe a mixture of Bagley and Wendell Carter?
    I think he's what Wendell Carter would have been if Bagley hadn't decided to come to Duke at the last minute.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I think he's what Wendell Carter would have been if Bagley hadn't decided to come to Duke at the last minute.
    Oooh now that's an interesting thought. After tonight, I can't say I disagree.

    I hope these performances become something we should expect of Vernon vs. ACC competition.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I think he's what Wendell Carter would have been if Bagley hadn't decided to come to Duke at the last minute.
    I think Carter had a more physically assertive post game than Vernon but both have great patience and feel when backing down their defender. If Vernon continues this level of play, we will see how he deals with constant double teams. I assume that K will increase the rate at which we operate our half court offense from the inside out, so consistent outside shooting will become a more essential need. This will likely translate into more PT for White, Baker, and AOC and less PT for Javin and Goldwire. It's only one game but it appeared that Vernon found his chi( borrowing from an old battier quote after he bombarded the terps with 3's as a sophomore). He played with tremendous confidence and I see no reason why he can't continue to build on this great performance.

  8. #8
    Vernon is my 3rd-favorite Duke big of the past 25 years behind only Zion and Elton, and he's been a very pleasant surprise to me so far this season. (I'm going to for now stop short of just straight up declaring that he's the 3rd-best Duke big of the past 25 years, but I'm getting closer -- let's see how he performs against Georgetown's monsters inside).

    What I love about Vernon in no particular order -- Vernon is a much better defender than high school stats / scouting reports / measurements suggested. Despite not being long, he reacts quickly enough to get his hands on balls (blocks, steals). Vernon is a much better rebounder than high school stats suggested, and in general, I love his great, soft hands and how secure the ball appears to be when his mitts are on it. I of course love his soft touch around the rim and how he carves out space using his body. I love that he has faceup-and-drive game (which was apparently how he played in high school until Coach Nate James taught him how to play back-to-basket). I love that Duke has seemingly done a wonderful job developing him. I love that he has worked so hard on his body and can now beat everyone down the floor in transition to catch a halfcourt alley-oop pass from Tre for a dunk (like he did against Ga St). I love that he is not a black hole when we feed him the ball inside; his head stays up looking for double-teams and passing lanes to open teammates, and he seems to have passing chops. There just aren't many weaknesses here.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston or thereabouts
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Vernon is my 3rd-favorite Duke big of the past 25 years behind only Zion and Elton, and he's been a very pleasant surprise to me so far this season. (I'm going to for now stop short of just straight up declaring that he's the 3rd-best Duke big of the past 25 years, but I'm getting closer -- let's see how he performs against Georgetown's monsters inside).
    No love for the Landlord?
    "Shout out to this clock right here that's telling us what time it is." - Dre

  10. #10
    Some general thoughts:

    1. We struggled on offense against the zone at first and we are likely to see a lot of that going forward.
    2. Carey is a beast and too much for Cal. He is establishing himself as a lottery pick.
    3. The defense played hard and limited Cal who tended to hit a few threes when we subbed out oour top defenders.
    4. When the game got out of hand coach K rested his key starters to be ready for tonight, otherwise Carey would have had 40.

    Offense:

    With our defe3nse being a strong point, the main interest was who would step up on offense. Carey and Jones had already established their cred and clearly two we can rely on. Moore started over other possibles so he must have shown enough in practice to gain that distinction. Stanley had shown flashes on offense and continued in that respect, especially getting to the line and hitting his foul shots but also hitting a couple of shots.

    As the game wore on, we got some indication that Baker can hit the three, Alex also hit a shot and had an impressive dunk while Hurt took a long while to get started but also hit a couplle of shots. Moore is a rugged kid who is likkely to improve and add more offense as he gains experience.

    We won't have the athletic advantage tonight so our defense needs to continue to play at a high level while our offensive contributors have to show up consistently. Looking forward to the game.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Side Note: given the back-to-back games, itís nice that no one logged heavy minutes against Cal.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga2 View Post
    1. We struggled on offense against the zone at first and we are likely to see a lot of that going forward.
    Great point here, and totally agree. Big question for me with this is who our "flash to the high post and make plays in traffic from the soft spot in the zone" guy is this year. We've been lucky to have a string of guys who are just outrageously good working from this area and killing zones, from Zion/RJ to Justise Winslow to Ingram to Rodney Hood (leaving a few notable guys out). We don't really have an obvious guy this year. I'd guess it should be either Hurt or Moore, but I can't say I'm as confident in either of those two in that position as I was about any of the group just named. Should be a very interesting development as we move forward.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I think he's what Wendell Carter would have been if Bagley hadn't decided to come to Duke at the last minute.
    I'm not ready to go there just yet. I think Vernon is more skilled offensively. He has better touch with his jump shot, and on his post hooks/fades (although almost exclusively with his left hand), but Wendell was a better post defender and help defender than Vernon has been thus far. He was also I think a better overall athlete. This is not a knock on Vernon. Vernon was excellent on defense this game, but I think we are selling Wendell short. True, the 2017-18 Duke team was not a great defensive team (at first), but I think that had much more to do with Marvin Bagley than Wendell Carter.

    Wendell was really, really good at going straight up with two hands to contest shots in the paint without fouling. Maybe the best Duke freshman big I've ever seen at contesting shots without fouling. And yet, somehow he still fouled out of that Kansas game because of some extremely questionable calls. Sigh.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX

    Thoughts on our big man rotation

    It seems clear at this point that our offense runs through the post. I know this is already been said ad nauseum, but it really is an old-school team, in many ways. I don't have the stats in front of me, but it did seem like our best offensive possessions occurred when we were able to successfully get the ball to Vernon Carey or Matthew Hurt in the post. Didn't matter if it was high or low, once they got the ball inside, good things happened. We just don't have the ball handlers/playmakers on this team to be an up-tempo run and gun style of offense, but we can still be very effective because we have two guys who can create offense from the post.

    The Javin DeLaurier/Jack White lineup needs to go away. Oh my God, when both Hurt and Carey were out of the game, our offense was brutal. BRUTAL. It's like we still try to run the offense through the post, but it's Javin making the decisions, and he's just not a good offensive player. This is something I hope we do less and less as the year progresses. Vernon/Hurt, Vernon/Jack, and Javin/Hurt seemed to be the most effective combos up front. Hurt had a tough go of it with no points in the first half, but was able to get going later in the 2nd half when he became the focal point of the offense with Carey on the bench. I think at least one of those guys needs to be in the game at all times. Or, if not, possibly try Wendell Moore at the 4. Just no more Javin/Jack, please.
    Last edited by kAzE; 11-22-2019 at 11:21 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Or maybe a mixture of Bagley and Wendell Carter? Better defender than Bagley; more explosive than Carter. Carey is quick and strong; jumps well and his second jump is quick (Bagley's second or third jumps were other-worldly quick).

    Carey plays hard but maintains an even temperament; we can see his game growing and his confidence growing. Good stuff.

    **per Scott Van Pelt, Carey is the first player under Coach K to get at least 30 points and 10 rebounds in less than 30 minutes playing time. 31 points, 12 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 22 minutes.
    He also had better stats that the Cal starting 5 combined - except for steals and assists.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Vernon Carey back to pre-injury form.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    The only question I have about this team is, which one of the bombers is going to step-up on a consistent basis? Will it be Hurt, Alex, or Joey?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Really satisfying win. Started with the defense, which kept us in it through that slow start where we couldnít hit anything. The shots finally started falling but the defense stayed constant. We didnít get a ton of steals but totally disrupted Calís offense and made them take tough shots all night. Carey was the man but Moore has a really solid game too. Jones and Stanley did what weíve come to expect. Hurt was having a pretty rough game but did get some buckets in garbage time.

    This may be a weird comment but I think the body language of this team is really methodical. Thereís not a lot of hooting and flexing after a big play, nor is there whining after a bad call. Guys just move on to the next play, which really reflects the blue collar attitude of the team.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post

    This may be a weird comment but I think the body language of this team is really methodical. There’s not a lot of hooting and flexing after a big play, nor is there whining after a bad call. Guys just move on to the next play, which really reflects the blue collar attitude of the team.
    Well said, it's a no-frills, no-nonsense kind of team (I mean, they aren't robotic either, they'll show emotion from time to time) that doesn't have the glitz and glamour but just goes out there and gets work done. Even though Cal isn't very good I still feel like some of the recent Duke teams would have let them hang around that 18-23 point range all 2nd half. This team kept playing solid basketball even when up big which shows some maturity.

    Vernon's shooting form looks really natural and the arc he gets on the shot is nice to watch. Certainly one of the best shooting bigs we've had this decade along with Carter Jr.
    Last edited by mo.st.dukie; 11-21-2019 at 11:37 PM.

  20. #20
    Whew, Vernon Carey. That was really something. His touch (from all over the court, too) is just incredibly soft for a guy that strong. All those numbers in only 23 min (and a +31)? Yeesh. Fantastic defensively tonight, too. Moving well, and getting his hands up quickly to alter shots. Great to see the big guy seeing just how good he can be.

    Strong all-around nights from Tre and Moore, as well, in particular. And really cool to see RJ, Bagley, and Giles there taking in the action (and getting super into AOC's dunk). On to Georgetown, who looked really tough earlier. Looking forward to that game.

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