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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by W&LHoo View Post
    Every 2-3 years the basketball pundits seem to declare that it's a "down year" for college basketball.

    In-general I've always found that useless as it has no real predictive value, nor, relatedly, can it be verified. But this is the first year it has felt accurate to me. None of the "top teams" seem to be that strong given the eye test. Moreover, bunches of teams are losing games they ought not lose.

    I can tell you that the general consensus among Wahoos is that it's absurd that we're ranked where we are; I'm . . . reasonably confident we're the 4th or 5th best team in the ACC, but 5th in the nation in the AP and 2nd (!?!) in the coaches poll seems absurd. This VA squad is good, sure. But this is a rebuilding year, and we don't rebuild as speedily as do our southern cousins.

    Where do you guys think this Duke team really shakes out currently, and where would you guess by year's end?


    Hard to say what's an appropriate ranking for you guys but, once again, Bennett puts your team in such great position to have success by continuing to utilize outstanding defensive strategy. It may not be pretty but it is effective. Period.

    So I have no problem where you're ranked.

    I have no idea about us. Once again our team evolution is derailed by a key injury. And I wasn't terribly impressed before Stanley got hurt, to this point. Top 10 for us at this point is probably generous in my opinion. But I still like our potential.

    And of course the rankings at this point don't mean much. Let's see where we are MLK-Day-ish.
    Last edited by bullettoothtony; 12-02-2019 at 04:10 PM.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by W&LHoo View Post
    Every 2-3 years the basketball pundits seem to declare that it's a "down year" for college basketball.

    In-general I've always found that useless as it has no real predictive value, nor, relatedly, can it be verified. But this is the first year it has felt accurate to me. None of the "top teams" seem to be that strong given the eye test. Moreover, bunches of teams are losing games they ought not lose.

    I can tell you that the general consensus among Wahoos is that it's absurd that we're ranked where we are; I'm . . . reasonably confident we're the 4th or 5th best team in the ACC, but 5th in the nation in the AP and 2nd (!?!) in the coaches poll seems absurd. This VA squad is good, sure. But this is a rebuilding year, and we don't rebuild as speedily as do our southern cousins.

    Where do you guys think this Duke team really shakes out currently, and where would you guess by year's end?
    Currently, I'd say somewhere from 10-20 on a national basis and in the top 4 or 5 in the ACC. But I this Duke team has room to grow and will improve by tournament time. Losing Cassius really hurts right now because he looks to be one of the best wing defenders we've had in a while. But that's just my opinion. When he returns our stock goes up. Other players that should get better include; Moore who some Duke fans are down on right now, but I think he will become a more consistent player as he get's more confidence and the staff finds how to best use his skills. Baker can shoot and looks like he can improve his defense. Those are two of the players that come to mind and there are some wild cards who might step up as well. I guess what I'm saying is it's too early to tell how good Duke can be because there isn't a sure fire top ten draft choice on the team as in past seasons, but we do have the GOAT on the bench and I'm not counting them out.
    GoDuke!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    I bet less than 2% of the posters on this site have watched more than a couple minutes of the rest of the top 25. Maybe you saw some of the Battle For Atlantis or one of the other Thanksgiving tourneys. Maybe you watched Kansas and Kentucky play on opening day. You likely watched at least some of the other ACC teams in action... but raise your hand if you have seen more than 5 minutes of Ohio St, Maryland, Gonzaga, Baylor, Purdue, Auburn, Seton Hall, and Oregon.

    If you, like me, have not seen those teams play much (at all) then I don't know how you could possibly make any meaningful comparison between Duke and those teams (to say nothing of more "watchable" teams like UNC, Virginia, Louisville, Kentucky, Michigan, and so on). It is simply too early in the season to have much data based on game results (many of the top teams have not played any meaningful opponents) so we are all just largely guessing based on reputation and looking at boxscores.

    So, the polls say Duke is #10... fine. Whatever. It could have said 6 or it could have said 16 and I would not have had any real data to say it was a good or bad spot for us. We've shown we are more than capable of playing with what appear to be other elite teams and we have shown we are more than capable of playing down to teams who would be thrilled to even make the tournament (and would likely be #15 or #16 seeds if they did). At this stage of the season, the reality is that we know very, very little.

    -Jason "we will start to know more in coming days as the ACC-Big Ten happens" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I bet less than 2% of the posters on this site have watched more than a couple minutes of the rest of the top 25. Maybe you saw some of the Battle For Atlantis or one of the other Thanksgiving tourneys. Maybe you watched Kansas and Kentucky play on opening day. You likely watched at least some of the other ACC teams in action... but raise your hand if you have seen more than 5 minutes of Ohio St, Maryland, Gonzaga, Baylor, Purdue, Auburn, Seton Hall, and Oregon.

    If you, like me, have not seen those teams play much (at all) then I don't know how you could possibly make any meaningful comparison between Duke and those teams (to say nothing of more "watchable" teams like UNC, Virginia, Louisville, Kentucky, Michigan, and so on). It is simply too early in the season to have much data based on game results (many of the top teams have not played any meaningful opponents) so we are all just largely guessing based on reputation and looking at boxscores.

    So, the polls say Duke is #10... fine. Whatever. It could have said 6 or it could have said 16 and I would not have had any real data to say it was a good or bad spot for us. We've shown we are more than capable of playing with what appear to be other elite teams and we have shown we are more than capable of playing down to teams who would be thrilled to even make the tournament (and would likely be #15 or #16 seeds if they did). At this stage of the season, the reality is that we know very, very little.

    -Jason "we will start to know more in coming days as the ACC-Big Ten happens" Evans
    "Watchable Virginia" seems like an oxymoron
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I bet less than 2% of the posters on this site have watched more than a couple minutes of the rest of the top 25...
    I tell ya what, Nico Mannion at AZ is a force to be reckoned with. That young man knows how to play point guard, maybe not so much on the defense but his 3 is unconscious at times. He's making Chase Jeter look pretty darned good...even with the still dopey pant leg affectation.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    I tell ya what, Nico Mannion at AZ is a force to be reckoned with. That young man knows how to play point guard, maybe not so much on the defense but his 3 is unconscious at times. He's making Chase Jeter look pretty darned good...even with the still dopey pant leg affectation.
    Chase Jeter is a bit of a mystery, but I am pulling for him. Loved Duke academics (Academic All-ACC); did not love Duke athletics.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I bet less than 2% of the posters on this site have watched more than a couple minutes of the rest of the top 25.
    Thanks to the ACC Network (which I am told exists outside of Comcast world) my viewing of Dike is not too far ahead of that.
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Asheville
    "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend."

    -Thomas Jefferson

    Political science denier.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by mattman91 View Post
    Louisville, OSU, and Maryland all deserve to be ranked above Duke. Maryland has had a fairly weak schedule, and good for them for not losing. OSU has beat a few ranked teams and haven't lost. And the 'ville have an impressive resume plus they are playing the best basketball in the country right now.

    I also get Michigan, given that they lost to Louisville.

    Not sure I agree behind Kansas and the Zags above Duke. Kansas lost to Duke and has looked okay. The Zags lost to Michigan and are ranked #9 in KenPom.

    I guess the morale of the story is, if you lose, don't lose to really bad teams at home.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Louisville, OSU, and Maryland all deserve to be ranked above Duke. Maryland has had a fairly weak schedule, and good for them for not losing. OSU has beat a few ranked teams and haven't lost. And the 'ville have an impressive resume plus they are playing the best basketball in the country right now.

    I also get Michigan, given that they lost to Louisville.

    Not sure I agree behind Kansas and the Zags above Duke. Kansas lost to Duke and has looked okay. The Zags lost to Michigan and are ranked #9 in KenPom.

    I guess the morale of the story is, if you lose, don't lose to really bad teams at home.
    I prefer to think Duke lost at home to a highly overlooked team...

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Louisville, OSU, and Maryland all deserve to be ranked above Duke. Maryland has had a fairly weak schedule, and good for them for not losing. OSU has beat a few ranked teams and haven't lost. And the 'ville have an impressive resume plus they are playing the best basketball in the country right now.

    I also get Michigan, given that they lost to Louisville.

    Not sure I agree behind Kansas and the Zags above Duke. Kansas lost to Duke and has looked okay. The Zags lost to Michigan and are ranked #9 in KenPom.

    I guess the morale of the story is, if you lose, don't lose to really bad teams at home.
    There's a huge recency bias built into the polls. The fact that we beat Kansas the first game of the season carries little weight in the polls after a week or two.
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    There's a huge recency bias built into the polls. The fact that we beat Kansas the first game of the season carries little weight in the polls after a week or two.
    Possibly. But the SFA loss, which was ~2 weeks ago, is still very, very fresh in voters' minds. As is Kentucky's Evansville loss.

    Terrible losses are much more impactful than amazing wins.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!
    Quote Originally Posted by hudlow View Post
    I prefer to think Duke lost at home to a highly overlooked team...
    You just know the "committee" is already planning to pit Duke and SFA against each other in the first weekend of the NCAA's.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by Reddevil View Post
    You just know the "committee" is already planning to pit Duke and SFA against each other in the first weekend of the NCAA's.
    A. That would be great because we are and will be a much better team but will also have the revenge mindset and KNOW that we could lose

    and

    B. I believe the committee tries to keep from matchups that took place during the season, except for the later rounds when it's pretty much outside their control
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Duke is 5 in the Coaches, with the difference being both Zags (6) and Michigan (7) behind us.

    What's most important is that the baby blues had the biggest drop in both polls, to 17 (AP) and 16.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Duke is 5 in the Coaches, with the difference being both Zags (6) and Michigan (7) behind us.

    What's most important is that the baby blues had the biggest drop in both polls, to 17 (AP) and 16.
    They could descend to Hades as far as I'm concerned.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    i'm fine with 6 or 7
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  18. #58

    "No Great Teams," Continued...

    What's the over/ under on "teams getting first place votes" this week???

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by cakerace View Post
    What's the over/ under on "teams getting first place votes" this week???
    I'll say 3. Kansas and Gonzaga for sure... and maybe Duke or someone else.

    -Jason "Carolina falls out of the top 20... and if they lose again to Gonzaga they may be unranked next week" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I'll say 3. Kansas and Gonzaga for sure... and maybe Duke or someone else.

    -Jason "Carolina falls out of the top 20... and if they lose again to Gonzaga they may be unranked next week" Evans
    I bet they are gone from the top 25 today. With the injuries to Anthony and Black, they are not a top 25 team and voters know it. Wofford proved it to them.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

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