Is It Time For Cut To Retire?

[Devilwin]

Thanks for noticing and welcoming me. Much appreciated.

Welcome to the site!
I will say this:
Cut made us respectable again. He owns five wins over UNC. He owns victories over Miami and Va Tech. He won three bowl games. He won a Coastal title. For all this, I thank him.
But we must ask ourselves, are we satisfied with this? He pulled the program out of the swamp and led us to the mountain top.
But now, we are heading downward again, and it appears nothing is being addressed. The offensive line, poor play calling, and defensive backs still not looking back for the ball. Harris actually is better throwing long rather than short, yet all the plays are short calls. Players often look confused when plays are sent in.
I do not want to see him gone, but I think a close look at his staff is in order. Show some imagination on offense. Teach the d backs how to cover deep balls.
If nothing is done there, then I say a major overhaul would be prudent when next season is over. Give them one more year.

[BlueDevil16]

The way we’ve ended last season and this season is enough for me to get on board with him leaving. He’s brought the program where he could but he can’t get us to the next level.

[YmoBeThere]

The way we’ve ended last season and this season is enough for me to get on board with him leaving. He’s brought the program where he could but he can’t get us to the next level.

Bssically, you are complaining about the loss last season to Wake. You weren't expecting us to beat Clemson were you?

And what is the next level? Have we competed at that level at any time in the last 50 years?

[arnie]

Welcome to the site!
I will say this:
Cut made us respectable again. He owns five wins over UNC. He owns victories over Miami and Va Tech. He won three bowl games. He won a Coastal title. For all this, I thank him.
But we must ask ourselves, are we satisfied with this? He pulled the program out of the swamp and led us to the mountain top.
But now, we are heading downward again, and it appears nothing is being addressed. The offensive line, poor play calling, and defensive backs still not looking back for the ball. Harris actually is better throwing long rather than short, yet all the plays are short calls. Players often look confused when plays are sent in.
I do not want to see him gone, but I think a close look at his staff is in order. Show some imagination on offense. Teach the d backs how to cover deep balls.
If nothing is done there, then I say a major overhaul would be prudent when next season is over. Give them one more year.

In the late 1980s I worked with a previous Duke Starting OL. I once mentioned a game I attended where we were routed by a not-so-great opponent late in the year. He laughed & openly said they had pretty much “packed it in” and we’re only playing out the string. He also thought the coaches didn’t have a clue.

I have no idea if this is happening now, but if I can understand a college lineman that’s not going to the NFL losing interest as a disappointing season nears the end. Whether at Duke or anywhere else, it’s just coachspeak when I hear the team is practicing great, everyone’s pumped for the next game and we just need to execute better.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Sorry, the answer to this thread is still "no."

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Sorry, the answer to this thread is still "no."

I would agree with you...but I would add that it's not as clearly a no as it was when it first appeared.

When a long time coach hits a downward trajectory, and there's the sense that something has gone terribly wrong, it seems to me that it is hard for that coach to pull the aircraft out of the tailspin. So, has something gone terribly wrong, or is this just a down cycle in the normal ups and downs that everyone not named Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State have?

I think something has gone wrong...or perhaps, something - or some things - have reached critical mass. I have a number of theories on the critical mass notion, and I've floated bits and pieces out on the forum. Maybe I'll coagulate my thoughts and submit a more coherent theory. I'd love to see what others thought. At any rate, I am more bearish on the short and long term future of Duke football than I've been at any point since Cut was hired. I almost put a big real wager on Syracuse yesterday, because I sense WF redux coming. Maybe that was lucky hunch, or maybe I'm onto something with the tea leaves.

As I recall off top of my head, year 3 and 4 of Cut were not good regarding W/L records...in fact, they were steps backwards...but I didn't have the feeling then that the whole thing was sliding downhill. I have that feeling now. Again, I think Cut will stay and should stay - and be given every chance to turn it around. I don't see it happening. Major headwinds seem too strong to me...foundational, inherent headwinds.

[Devilwin]

Sorry, the answer to this thread is still "no."

I agree.
Pull a rabbit out of his hat, win the next two and have a good 2020 and address some of the issues, we can accept that as if he sees the elephant in the room.
I don't want to see him go, but last night should alert him that something is very, very wrong. How do we romp Va Tech, crush Ga Tech, then lose games to Pitt and UNC because of sideline incompetence. Games we should have won. Then comes last night against a team we were favored by ten and we lose by 42...He gets paid good money to win games. None of us could keep a job we did not perform at..

[AGDukesky]

I’m proud Cutcliffe is the coach at Duke but he is not maximizing his team's potential. The ACC is so weak right now that some of those bowl games should have asterisks. Things are better than they were but it feels like it could have been better this year and last at least...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Ozzie's only a few months older than Cut as he pointed out upthread. I think he's aged well:

Attachment 9944

Bwahahahaba! My muchas gracias, mi amigo!

Fire Roper. LGD GTHc!

[Devil549]

Been reading and not adding IMO so here goes:
Coach Cut like all good coaches evaluates his program every year, month week and day. Does he always catch slips and weak spots...no. Why you may ask...well he is human and coaches cannot be knee jerk when things go wrong. Yet there is a fine line between being open minded and stubborn. I think Cut has some very difficult decisions to make this office season including but no more than I will list:
1- Why we start off well and are not playing well in NOV the past few years.
2- What does Duke need to do to tweak offense and defense...basically are we becoming too predictable?
3- How can we improve weight program, recruiting process, player development...basically what is the current “state of the program”.

Now below is my 2 cents:
1- Injuries are killing us every year Duke has ACC talent in their starters but the 2s & 3s are not.
2- Offensive line needs to be top of the list of improvements...we you are starting true freshman and RS freshman at OT with returners who started several games the previous season you have a talent, coaching or work ethic problem or all 3 with that group.
3- Stars don’t impress me in football recruiting because the talent level varies around the country. Player development is very important I feel our recruiting has improved in that we are recruiting bigger, faster and stronger guys but not coaching them up as well.
4- Finally it is time this off seaso for Coach Cut to evaluate all his asst. coaches because they all should not return next season. If they all return then all the Coach Cut is too loyal talk is true.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Anyone advocating for Cut's ouster - who do you recommend we get to replace him? Urban Meyer?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Anyone advocating for Cut's ouster - who do you recommend we get to replace him? Urban Meyer?

Right.

Cut had multiple opportunities to leave Duke and stayed because he loves Duke and he’s turned it into a very respectable program. Not every year is going to be a winner. But I clearly remember the time not long ago when the question at the start of EVERY season was... “Can we win more than 2-3 games?” ...it was certainly not “What bowl might me get to this year?”

There are practical limitations that any Duke football coach must deal with - all of which have been discussed on this board as nauseum. I doubt even Urban Meyer could accomplish much more than Cut has.

I don’t think we’ve reached our absolute potential as a program just yet but I also think that, this year notwithstanding, we’re not very far off from it. Calling for Coach Cut’s head is simply short sighted chicken little ranting. Now, Roper? Time to hand him his walking papers and remind him not to let the door hit him in the rear.

[75Crazie]

There are practical limitations that any Duke football coach must deal with - all of which have been discussed on this board as nauseum.

I think the real unasked question that most of those clamoring for change have in mind is this: Should those "practical limitations" be lifted (I would say, demolished) to allow the program to "advance to the next level" (a phrase that I abhor). My answer would be a resounding "no". Those "limitations" are what makes Duke football special in my mind. I will accept the on-going average state of Duke football, even if that means a period such as we are now experiencing, along with the occasional stellar year, if that keeps Duke football from descending into the mire of main-stream all-but-professional programs such as those of many P5 schools. I admit that there needs to be some significant soul-searching after this year, because this particular team has seemingly quit on the program … but the day Duke decides to do whatever it takes to "advance to the next level" is the day I withdraw from supporting Duke.

But, yet again, I have to claim that I am a Pollyanna.

[Acymetric]

Bssically, you are complaining about the loss last season to Wake. You weren't expecting us to beat Clemson were you?

That was kind of a season ruining loss, yeah.

And what is the next level? Have we competed at that level at any time in the last 50 years?

Sure. Look back about 4-5 years, and then briefly with Spurrier and Goldsmith before that.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think the real unasked question that most of those clamoring for change have in mind is this: Should those "practical limitations" be lifted (I would say, demolished) to allow the program to "advance to the next level" (a phrase that I abhor). My answer would be a resounding "no". Those "limitations" are what makes Duke football special in my mind. I will accept the on-going average state of Duke football, even if that means a period such as we are now experiencing, along with the occasional stellar year, if that keeps Duke football from descending into the mire of main-stream all-but-professional programs such as those of many P5 schools. I admit that there needs to be some significant soul-searching after this year, because this particular team has seemingly quit on the program … but the day Duke decides to do whatever it takes to "advance to the next level" is the day I withdraw from supporting Duke.

But, yet again, I have to claim that I am a Pollyanna.

This is the divide I mentioned upthread:

- Duke fans who love and respect what Cut has done, the level of winning achieved, the caliber of young man he recruits and are happy with 6 to 9 wins a season.

- Duke fans who want to continue the arc of progress and become perennial contenders for league championships and beyond and are willing to make concessions and compromises to get there.

I'm firmly on the "run a respectable program, keep everything clean, and if we go bowling 2 out of 3 years, that's awesome" side. I suspect I'm in the minority.

[Acymetric]

Anyone advocating for Cut's ouster - who do you recommend we get to replace him? Urban Meyer?

Hardly anyone on this thread is advocating for Cut to be let go immediately, or after this season. People are saying that the program appears to have some deeply rooted issues right now, and appears to be on a downward trajectory. 9-21 in the ACC from 2015 on. 3-13 in our last 16 home conference games. These are not winning numbers, these are numbers that suggest we are still the perennial bottom dweller in the ACC regardless of how well we manage to pad our win totals OOC.

Who do we get to replace him, if we did let him go or he chose to retire (say, after another disappointing season next year)? No clue. But this is the worst argument possible and I can't understand why people keep making it. How did Wake manager to hire Clawson? There are plenty of up and coming head coaches and coordinators who would take the pay and exposure upgrade that comes with coaching at a P5 program like Duke. I don't have a short list because it isn't my job to do that and I have other things to do. There are people at Duke for whom it is their job though.

The concern, if we don't either start improving again or make some kind of change, is that recruiting begins to suffer and when we go to get our next coach (which we'll have to do eventually) we are trying to bring someone into a program with a bare cupboard that needs a complete overhaul rather than simply a decent program that needs a little new energy and rejuvenation. We appear to be drifting from the second scenario to the first, and if we allow that to continue then that will make recruiting a new head coach to a massive rebuild project difficult. When all signs point down, better to make changes before the rebuild is truly necessary.

[Acymetric]

This is the divide I mentioned upthread:

- Duke fans who love and respect what Cut has done, the level of winning achieved, the caliber of young man he recruits and are happy with 6 to 9 wins a season.

I'll quibble here. I would be perfectly happy with 6-9 wins per season. That isn't where we are. We are in 3-7 wins per season territory. I don't think the problem is disagreement about how many wins to expect, it is disagreement about whether we actually can call ourselves a 6-9 win program right now. People also want us to be competitive in the (weak) ACC Coastal division, which means not finishing at the very bottom of the standings constantly.

I would be absolutely shocked if Cut has another 9 win season even if he coaches another 10 years. We just don't look like that kind of team anymore.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'll quibble here. I would be perfectly happy with 6-9 wins per season. That isn't where we are. We are in 3-7 wins per season territory. I don't think the problem is disagreement about how many wins to expect, it is disagreement about whether we actually can call ourselves a 6-9 win program right now. People also want us to be competitive in the (weak) ACC Coastal division, which means not finishing at the very bottom of the standings constantly.

I would be absolutely shocked if Cut has another 9 win season even if he coaches another 10 years. We just don't look like that kind of team anymore.

Everyone would have been shocked in 2007 if you said we would have 10 wins in 2013. Things can certainly shift.

[arnie]

The old support/fire Ted Roof threads from 2007 are easy to find. Fascinating reading in retrospect as many thought he should stay regardless of his record. Obviously, the AD that made Franks/Roof possible no longer with us, but I guess the state of Duke football will always have us asking those questions.

[YmoBeThere]

But I clearly remember the time not long ago when the question at the start of EVERY season was... “Can we win more than 2-3 games?” ...it was certainly not “What bowl might me get to this year?”

For a while there question I asked was definitely, will we win a game this year? I remind myself while reading these threads that since I matriculated at the end of the Spurrier "era" that we have witnessed 4 such seasons where the answer was no and 2 seasons where the answer was a resounding "yes, we won one!"

Does Coach Cutcliffe need to make some tweaks to his staff and the program? Sure. I hope he is open to doing that.