Is It Time For Cut To Retire?

[Acymetric]

Kinda. They got blown out by UNLV. If we had lost to MTSU, 41-18, what would you have thought of our team? Also, if we had played a MAC team instead of 'bama and Purdue instead of Notre Dame and were at 5-5 or 6-4 how would you feel? They will get their 3rd win this weekend. But they've been less competitive than we have this season.

It would be an interesting matchup if we were to play them. We are the better team, but they have a player or two who could dominate us. Vaughn is a legitimate pro running back who could easily get 150-200 yards against us. But their quarterback play is significantly worse, though Harris has regressed in my view.

The trouble Vandy faces is that 6 wins appears to be the cap with the current coach. What is the next step for them? They have significantly underinvested in facilities, coaching, etc. Does consistent performance lead to facilities upgrades or do upgrades lead to better performance? That along with a coach who appears to be tone deaf has many in the fanbase wondering if he is the right person at the helm.

I should have been more clear that I was looking at results over the past 5 or 6 seasons. They are definitely having a worse season than us this year.

[SamHouston]

Kinda. They got blown out by UNLV. If we had lost to MTSU, 41-18, what would you have thought of our team? Also, if we had played a MAC team instead of 'bama and Purdue instead of Notre Dame and were at 5-5 or 6-4 how would you feel? They will get their 3rd win this weekend. But they've been less competitive than we have this season.

It would be an interesting matchup if we were to play them. We are the better team, but they have a player or two who could dominate us. Vaughn is a legitimate pro running back who could easily get 150-200 yards against us. But their quarterback play is significantly worse, though Harris has regressed in my view.

The trouble Vandy faces is that 6 wins appears to be the cap with the current coach. What is the next step for them? They have significantly underinvested in facilities, coaching, etc. Does consistent performance lead to facilities upgrades or do upgrades lead to better performance? That along with a coach who appears to be tone deaf has many in the fanbase wondering if he is the right person at the helm.

Vanderbilt is stuck! University presidents in the SEC love their academic credential and the coaches love easy conference wins. Vandy loves the big checks from the SEC. They are an obvious fit for the ACC but $$$$ drives decision making.

[Acymetric]

Vanderbilt is stuck! University presidents in the SEC love their academic credential and the coaches love easy conference wins. Vandy loves the big checks from the SEC. They are an obvious fit for the ACC but $$$$ drives decision making.

Obvious fit for the ACC? I don't see that at all.

[throatybeard]

Obvious fit for the ACC? I don't see that at all.

My mother loved repeating the Vanderbilt-ACC thing too. Other than academic selectivity-snobbery, there's no logic to it whatsoever. They're small, they don't deliver the Nashville TV market, their fans don't really travel like their conferencemates (can't blame em), it's a ways west of the Appalachians, and above all, VU themselves have a much better financial deal from a real football conference. It makes no sense, none.

Trading Clemson for them was usually how she put it. [rolleyes]

[jv001]

My mother loved repeating the Vanderbilt-ACC thing too. Other than academic selectivity-snobbery, there's no logic to it whatsoever. They're small, they don't deliver the Nashville TV market, their fans don't really travel like their conferencemates (can't blame em), it's a ways west of the Appalachians, and above all, VU themselves have a much better financial deal from a real football conference. It makes no sense, none.

Trading Clemson for them was usually how she put it. [rolleyes]

I'd trade the cheats for them. Matter of fact, I'd trade the cheats for a Big Mac. GoDuke!

[throatybeard]

I'd trade the cheats for them. Matter of fact, I'd trade the cheats for a Big Mac. GoDuke!

I too would be very happy should the SEC take UNC-No Ethics off the ACC's hands, if/when they ever go to sixteen members. Since i want this to happen, i assume it is a long way off if possible at all.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'd trade the cheats for them. Matter of fact, I'd trade the cheats for a Big Mac. GoDuke!

You have a high bar. I'd swap UNC for a coupon for $.50 off a Big Mac.

[Indoor66]

You have a high bar. I'd swap UNC for a coupon for $.50 off a Big Mac.

Why such a high price?

[Steven43]

I'd trade the cheats for them. Matter of fact, I'd trade the cheats for a Big Mac. GoDuke!

Yes, they cheated for many years, and maybe still do. But I like having them in the same conference as Duke. Nothing gets me more excited, and nervous, as a Duke v UNC men’s basketball game. I don’t ever want to lose that feeling. And we are fortunate to get it a minimum of twice per season. I look forward to it all year — with both anticipation and a bit of dread. No other opponent comes close.

[arnie]

I too would be very happy should the SEC take UNC-No Ethics off the ACC's hands, if/when they ever go to sixteen members. Since i want this to happen, i assume it is a long way off if possible at all.

I’m begging for Cheats to SEC, then Duke and Pack refusing to play them. Let their natural rival be the Cocks or possibly Vandy.

[devildeac]

I'd trade the cheats for them. Matter of fact, I'd trade the cheats for a Big Mac. GoDuke!

Your opinion/value of them is waaaay too high. I *might* go for a small bag of fries. Hell, no I wouldn't. I'd *pay* the sec to take them.

Edit: I see others have opined the same. Too bad that work got in the way of me posting earlier today.

[left_hook_lacey]

Honest question for those in favor putting Cut out to pasture? Who are you gonna get to replace him? We got a gem by getting Cut to come to Duke, and at the time, it was a no pressure job because of the state the program was in. Who can we convince to come here to follow-up on what Cut has done?

I say we ride this horse into the sunset until the horse says he's done.

[throatybeard]

Honest question for those in favor putting Cut out to pasture? Who are you gonna get to replace him? We got a gem by getting Cut to come to Duke, and at the time, it was a no pressure job because of the state the program was in. Who can we convince to come here to follow-up on what Cut has done?

I say we ride this horse into the sunset until the horse says he's done.

I'm not taking the time to reread the whole thread, but I think it's really just the OP. No one else has spoken assertively in support of putting Cut out to pasture.

[Acymetric]

Honest question for those in favor putting Cut out to pasture? Who are you gonna get to replace him? We got a gem by getting Cut to come to Duke, and at the time, it was a no pressure job because of the state the program was in. Who can we convince to come here to follow-up on what Cut has done?

I say we ride this horse into the sunset until the horse says he's done.

I'll refer you to my previous post on this topic. Maybe I should just make it my signature. I still maintain that this is terrible reasoning.

Hardly anyone on this thread is advocating for Cut to be let go immediately, or after this season. People are saying that the program appears to have some deeply rooted issues right now, and appears to be on a downward trajectory. 9-21 in the ACC from 2015 on. 3-13 in our last 16 home conference games. These are not winning numbers, these are numbers that suggest we are still the perennial bottom dweller in the ACC regardless of how well we manage to pad our win totals OOC.

Who do we get to replace him, if we did let him go or he chose to retire (say, after another disappointing season next year)? No clue. But this is the worst argument possible and I can't understand why people keep making it. How did Wake manage to hire Clawson? There are plenty of up and coming head coaches and coordinators who would take the pay and exposure upgrade that comes with coaching at a P5 program like Duke. I don't have a short list because it isn't my job to do that and I have other things to do. There are people at Duke for whom it is their job though.

The concern, if we don't either start improving again or make some kind of change, is that recruiting begins to suffer and when we go to get our next coach (which we'll have to do eventually) we are trying to bring someone into a program with a bare cupboard that needs a complete overhaul rather than simply a decent program that needs a little new energy and rejuvenation. We appear to be drifting from the second scenario to the first, and if we allow that to continue then that will make recruiting a new head coach to a massive rebuild project difficult. When all signs point down, better to make changes before the rebuild is truly necessary.

In addition to the above, I'll also point out that we will likely be looking for a new coach regardless within 3-6 years, as I don't see Cut coaching into his 70s.

[throatybeard]

I'll refer you to my previous post on this topic. Maybe I should just make it my signature.

Though I'm the very opposite of a prescriptivist, I want to congratulate you for using bottom-dweller correctly. Everyone says bottom-feeder when they mean bottom-dweller, and they appear to have no idea what bottom-feeder once meant, or to have a word for that any longer.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Though I'm the very opposite of a prescriptivist, I want to congratulate you for using bottom-dweller correctly. Everyone says bottom-feeder when they mean bottom-dweller, and they appear to have no idea what bottom-feeder once meant, or to have a word for that any longer.

I'd surmise that "bottom-dweller" is incorrect, and so is "bottom-feeder" in the used context.
A bottom-feeder is a fish, doing what said fish does, (as opposed to eating on top of the surface) so the term is correct, just not in the right context. However, just because said fish eats from the river/sea bed, doesn't mean they live there.
I think the correct term is "cellar-dweller", and is often used in sports to reference those at the bottom of the standings.

(This is more fun to talk about than Cut retiring.)

[sagegrouse]

Honest question for those in favor putting Cut out to pasture? Who are you gonna get to replace him? We got a gem by getting Cut to come to Duke, and at the time, it was a no pressure job because of the state the program was in. Who can we convince to come here to follow-up on what Cut has done?

I say we ride this horse into the sunset until the horse says he's done.

I agree with your post.

Selection of a football coach by a school like Duke needs to be quite strategic. If we hire the best young coach in the country -- let's say -- he is likely to depart for greener pastures after three of four years.

Cutcliffe was ideal as a prospective long-term coach. He was an accomplished coach in his late 50's who had had health problems and who had demonstrated loyalty to both schools and staff. Trouble is, there are not many such examples of an older coach with such credentials. One example from prior years, who was suggested for Duke but we failed to act, was George Welsh, who went from being a successful coach at Navy to breathing life into a moribund Virginia football program -- the eight previous UVa coaches had losing records.

Anyway, some thoughts.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'The only coach we have lost to a better program is Spurrier -- but we did recruit Wallace Wade in 1930 from Alabama, where he had been to three Rose Bowls (2-0-1) -- Hah!'

[Steven43]

He was an accomplished coach in his late 50's who had had health problems....

I have never felt comfortable saying or writing “had had”. Anyone know the definitive word on this?

[Devilwin]

Honest question for those in favor putting Cut out to pasture? Who are you gonna get to replace him? We got a gem by getting Cut to come to Duke, and at the time, it was a no pressure job because of the state the program was in. Who can we convince to come here to follow-up on what Cut has done?

I say we ride this horse into the sunset until the horse says he's done.

Yes, ride the horse., But rid of the O/C he's protecting..

[Acymetric]

I agree with your post.

Selection of a football coach by a school like Duke needs to be quite strategic. If we hire the best young coach in the country -- let's say -- he is likely to depart for greener pastures after three of four years.

Cutcliffe was ideal as a prospective long-term coach. He was an accomplished coach in his late 50's who had had health problems and who had demonstrated loyalty to both schools and staff. Trouble is, there are not many such examples of an older coach with such credentials. One example from prior years, who was suggested for Duke but we failed to act, was George Welsh, who went from being a successful coach at Navy to breathing life into a moribund Virginia football program -- the eight previous UVa coaches had losing records.

Anyway, some thoughts.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'The only coach we have lost to a better program is Spurrier -- but we did recruit Wallace Wade in 1930 from Alabama, where he had been to three Rose Bowls (2-0-1) -- Hah!'

I think Cut was the perfect hire at the time for where the program was and what it needed.