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  1. #41
    I think the 8 man core with Jordan available to give Tre a breather or bring defensive energy and maybe Joey available as a designated zone buster feels right. 4 of the 5 starters should all shoot 33%+ from 3 - not including Tre in that group unless he suddenly discovers his shot.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I'm pretty optimistic at this point that we're going to keep him for another year. So far, Cassius has shown to be a good defender and a guy who can take it to the bucket and finish, but his offense would have to expand for me to become concerned* about him leaving. The most logical reason why he's reluctant to shoot from outside is because he can't shoot, and so where does an athletic but non-shooting wing without point guard skills go? Probably not even the high second-round, imo.

    * To be clear, if Cassius all of a sudden shows that he's a good shooter, I'd be elated because it would improve our chances at a national title.
    Are we sure he's reluctant shoot? I don't recall any specific instance thus far where he's been left wide open and he hesitated to take the shot. I think he's just taken what the defense has given him. He didn't hesitate one bit on that 3 pointer at the end of the Kansas game. That was a big time shot, which he took with confidence.

    I'm not going to judge whether he's a good or bad shooter with this sample size, but he certainly hasn't proven he's a bad shooter yet. He just hasn't taken lots of threes, and rightfully so, given his ability to get in the paint and either score the bucket or get to the foul line. Speaking of which, his form and stroke at the free throw line has been pretty good, and he's getting to the stripe consistently. These are very positive signs of a guy who we can rely on as a scorer. We will see whether or not his 3 ball is consistent.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Are we sure he's reluctant shoot? I don't recall any specific instance thus far where he's been left wide open and he hesitated to take the shot. I think he's just taken what the defense has given him. He didn't hesitate one bit on that 3 pointer at the end of the Kansas game. That was a big time shot, which he took with confidence.

    I'm not going to judge whether he's a good or bad shooter with this sample size, but he certainly hasn't proven he's a bad shooter yet. He just hasn't taken lots of threes, and rightfully so, given his ability to get in the paint and either score the bucket or get to the foul line. Speaking of which, his form and stroke at the free throw line has been pretty good, and he's getting to the stripe consistently. These are very positive signs of a guy who we can rely on as a scorer. We will see whether or not his 3 ball is consistent.
    Stanley is 13-17 from the field, including 1-2 from 3-point. He's shooting 76.5% which is very good start for a guy 2 games into his college career. And, yeah, dunks help a shooting percentage, but that's okay.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Are we sure he's reluctant shoot? I don't recall any specific instance thus far where he's been left wide open and he hesitated to take the shot. I think he's just taken what the defense has given him. He didn't hesitate one bit on that 3 pointer at the end of the Kansas game. That was a big time shot, which he took with confidence.
    No doubt the shot against KU was huge, but I think taking only 3 three-pt attempts in 4.5 games (if we count CTC as a half game) combined with his EYBL stats referenced above speaks for itself. Your mileage may vary on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I'm not going to judge whether he's a good or bad shooter with this sample size, but he certainly hasn't proven he's a bad shooter yet. He just hasn't taken lots of threes, and rightfully so, given his ability to get in the paint and either score the bucket or get to the foul line. Speaking of which, his form and stroke at the free throw line has been pretty good, and he's getting to the stripe consistently. These are very positive signs of a guy who we can rely on as a scorer. We will see whether or not his 3 ball is consistent.
    Yeah, but he's only hit 5 of 8 FT attempts so far. I like him a lot, as mentioned, but I just doubt that he can shoot.

    If it helps, this guy on youtube shows some of Cassius' inconsistency in high school from long range: https://youtu.be/lda1Jtr5koU?t=274 . I've primed the video to 4:34 when the discussion of his shooting struggles begins.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    No doubt the shot against KU was huge, but I think taking only 3 three-pt attempts in 4.5 games (if we count CTC as a half game) combined with his EYBL stats referenced above speaks for itself. Your mileage may vary on that.



    Yeah, but he's only hit 5 of 8 FT attempts so far. I like him a lot, as mentioned, but I just doubt that he can shoot.

    If it helps, this guy on youtube shows some of Cassius' inconsistency in high school from long range: https://youtu.be/lda1Jtr5koU?t=274 . I've primed the video to 4:34 when the discussion of his shooting struggles begins.
    If Duke and Cassius get a little bit of good fortune, I could see him having a Winslow-esque season from three. Winslow probably took a few more than Cassius will (he took over 100 and shot just over 40%), but the vast majority of them were of the extremely wide open variety. Justise was a mediocre-to-poor free throw shooter, had a questionable shot coming out of high school, and has continued to be streaky in the NBA. But he hit a good percentage at Duke because he was only taking them when he was completely unguarded. Granted, the 2015 team had excellent floor spacing after Matt Jones moved into the starting lineup as Tyus, Justise, Matt, and Quinn were all credible shooters surrounding Jah. This year's team won't be able to put THAT many shooters on the court at once, consequently, I'm not sure that Cassius will be completely uncovered on the perimeter as often as Justise was.

    However, as long as Cassius picks his spots, I think he stands to get more than few wide open looks thanks to his driving ability and explosive first step. Defenders are going to back off of him. Teams are going to pack the lane. Vernon is going to command double-teams in the post. As long as he anticipates this and is ready to catch and fire away from three, I wouldn't be surprised if he is able to shoot a decent percentage, say 35%+ on 60-70 attempts this season. It doesn't mean that he's a good pure shooter. But hopefully it means that he will make teams pay once or twice per game for leaving him completely unguarded. Like Justise, though, I think Cassius have much better shooting numbers if he's a complementary scorer rather than the primary threat. If one or two of Vernon, Tre, or Matthew are better able to establish themselves as scorers, I think it will help Cassius overall shooting numbers.

    (As an aside: Justise was really impressive across the board in 2015. While checking his free throw percentage and three point attempts, I happened to notice that he had a better defensive rebounding rate than Jah AND Amile that season. Defense, rebounding, three point shooting, a little ball-handling, Justise was an absolutely perfect complement to Tyus and Jah.)
    Who needs a moral victory when you can have a real one?

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    If Duke and Cassius get a little bit of good fortune, I could see him having a Winslow-esque season from three. Winslow probably took a few more than Cassius will (he took over 100 and shot just over 40%), but the vast majority of them were of the extremely wide open variety. Justise was a mediocre-to-poor free throw shooter, had a questionable shot coming out of high school, and has continued to be streaky in the NBA. But he hit a good percentage at Duke because he was only taking them when he was completely unguarded. Granted, the 2015 team had excellent floor spacing after Matt Jones moved into the starting lineup as Tyus, Justise, Matt, and Quinn were all credible shooters surrounding Jah. This year's team won't be able to put THAT many shooters on the court at once, consequently, I'm not sure that Cassius will be completely uncovered on the perimeter as often as Justise was.

    However, as long as Cassius picks his spots, I think he stands to get more than few wide open looks thanks to his driving ability and explosive first step. Defenders are going to back off of him. Teams are going to pack the lane. Vernon is going to command double-teams in the post. As long as he anticipates this and is ready to catch and fire away from three, I wouldn't be surprised if he is able to shoot a decent percentage, say 35%+ on 60-70 attempts this season. It doesn't mean that he's a good pure shooter. But hopefully it means that he will make teams pay once or twice per game for leaving him completely unguarded. Like Justise, though, I think Cassius have much better shooting numbers if he's a complementary scorer rather than the primary threat. If one or two of Vernon, Tre, or Matthew are better able to establish themselves as scorers, I think it will help Cassius overall shooting numbers.

    (As an aside: Justise was really impressive across the board in 2015. While checking his free throw percentage and three point attempts, I happened to notice that he had a better defensive rebounding rate than Jah AND Amile that season. Defense, rebounding, three point shooting, a little ball-handling, Justise was an absolutely perfect complement to Tyus and Jah.)
    Last year, 35% would rank second in 3pt shooting amongst players who shot more than 10 3s all year long (AOC at 37.5%). I'd take 35% in a heartbeat from Stanley. I'm expecting him to shoot 32-33%, which could possibly be top 3 on this team.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    If Duke and Cassius get a little bit of good fortune, I could see him having a Winslow-esque season from three. Winslow probably took a few more than Cassius will (he took over 100 and shot just over 40%), but the vast majority of them were of the extremely wide open variety. Justise was a mediocre-to-poor free throw shooter, had a questionable shot coming out of high school, and has continued to be streaky in the NBA. But he hit a good percentage at Duke because he was only taking them when he was completely unguarded. Granted, the 2015 team had excellent floor spacing after Matt Jones moved into the starting lineup as Tyus, Justise, Matt, and Quinn were all credible shooters surrounding Jah. This year's team won't be able to put THAT many shooters on the court at once, consequently, I'm not sure that Cassius will be completely uncovered on the perimeter as often as Justise was.

    However, as long as Cassius picks his spots, I think he stands to get more than few wide open looks thanks to his driving ability and explosive first step. Defenders are going to back off of him. Teams are going to pack the lane. Vernon is going to command double-teams in the post. As long as he anticipates this and is ready to catch and fire away from three, I wouldn't be surprised if he is able to shoot a decent percentage, say 35%+ on 60-70 attempts this season. It doesn't mean that he's a good pure shooter. But hopefully it means that he will make teams pay once or twice per game for leaving him completely unguarded. Like Justise, though, I think Cassius have much better shooting numbers if he's a complementary scorer rather than the primary threat. If one or two of Vernon, Tre, or Matthew are better able to establish themselves as scorers, I think it will help Cassius overall shooting numbers.

    (As an aside: Justise was really impressive across the board in 2015. While checking his free throw percentage and three point attempts, I happened to notice that he had a better defensive rebounding rate than Jah AND Amile that season. Defense, rebounding, three point shooting, a little ball-handling, Justise was an absolutely perfect complement to Tyus and Jah.)
    There were a lot of reasons that 2015 team got hot and won the title, but in my brain, Justise Winslow on both ends (as he got healthier) was reason no. 1.

  8. #48
    I think Stanley, AOC, Carey and Hurt will all shoot 33%+ from 3 and we will shoot 33%+ as a team. At some point this will require Tre, Jack and Wendell to either make shots or dial back their number of attempts. 33% is not great, but itís good enough given our other strengths as a team.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    I think Stanley, AOC, Carey and Hurt will all shoot 33%+ from 3 and we will shoot 33%+ as a team. At some point this will require Tre, Jack and Wendell to either make shots or dial back their number of attempts. 33% is not great, but itís good enough given our other strengths as a team.
    if that quartet can collectively shoot that well, i'll be pleased, but i'm not sold on Stanley fulfilling your and statement. In fact i think that AOC and Hurt will shoot such a higher volume of 3s that it'll lift whatever Stanley shoots above 33%. The early returns look good re: Mr Carey, but i think it's pretty likely he'll also be above 33%. My hope is that Tre can get himself to 30%, but early returns are not good on that one either.
    If Hurt and AOC end up shooting pretty well (add in just a pinch of Baker's touch), then i'm hopeful that they can lift the rest of the team, who honestly ought to have a relatively low 3FG volume, above 33% for the year. So, even though my initial reaction was to disagree with you, i remain hopeful that you will end up being mostly right.
    To me Carey is kinduva wild card, in that, i wasn't really expecting him to launch 3s very often, but if he ends up taking 1 or more 3s per game, and hits at a decent rate, that would change the complexion of this team.
    Even though after 2 games we've shot poorly from 3 (26.1%), if you remove the delinquents who haven't hit 3s yet, and who won't shoot with much frequency (hopefully), those being J-Gold, J-Rob, Javin, and Buckmire, the team is shooting 30%, which is not great, and just a touch below last year's gang that couldn't shoot strait. Not all that encouraging.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    I think Stanley, AOC, Carey and Hurt will all shoot 33%+ from 3 and we will shoot 33%+ as a team. At some point this will require Tre, Jack and Wendell to either make shots or dial back their number of attempts. 33% is not great, but itís good enough given our other strengths as a team.
    I predict Jack will be back at some point this season with good 3 point shooting. I'm not sold on Tre, or Wendell, at this point (regarding treys)
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  11. #51
    It should be noted that at the current very slow rate that Cassius is attempting 3-pters, the difference between season-long 32% vs 35% vs 38% is going to be roughly one extra 3-pter made.

    If he really can shoot them at 35%, the first thing I'd like to see is for him to shoot more often.

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