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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    It was hysterical. One night later, nearly the same play or at least a very, very similar near-miss goaltend off the glass, in the same Challenge event. The situation was about as close as you could get to a controlled experiment.

    And there was Bilas, on night 1 going on and on and on about the call and on night 2 essentially taking the ho-hum approach "gee, it's surprising they get that wrong so often but oh well".

    Bilas is a pretty polarizing subject around here, and I find myself more on the dislike side (as an announcer), but man was it an obvious difference between his call in our game versus last night.

    - Chillin
    And again I have to agree wholeheartedly. It really was amazing to have that play out on back-to-back nights like it did. I don't see how anyone could argue Jay isn't biased (for whatever reason) in his commentary during games. We all know he loves Duke and Coach K. He will forever be loyal to both. But his commentary is just so over the top anti-Duke (or whatever you want to label it) that I can't fathom anyone not noticing and agreeing.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    But his commentary is just so over the top anti-Duke (or whatever you want to label it) that I can't fathom anyone not noticing and agreeing.
    It's rumored that to this day he believes grayson allen should be drawn and quartered. I give J-will major props for not toeing the company line on that one.
    1200. DDMF.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio

    Bilas Bias

    Well for the fun of it, I think I'll throw some gasoline on the Bilas commentary. I decided to try a relatively objective evaluation of his work as an experiment. Before I explain the details, I will expose my personal subjective opinion.

    I'm OK with Jay. He annoys me sometimes, but not nearly as much as he does some others here. For a long time, Vitale was nearly the most unbearable, but as someone mentioned previously, he does seem to be slowing down some, and either I've gotten numb to him or he just doesn't work so hard to talk about everything else going on besides the game he's watching. And I challenge anyone to change a channel faster than I do whenever Steven A. Smith pops up. I could go on about other talking heads, but that gives an idea of my feelings. Now back to Jay.

    We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

    Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
    Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
    Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
    Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

    I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

    And the final score was:
    Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
    Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

    So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

    Everyone fell better now

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Ggallagher View Post
    We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

    Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
    Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
    Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
    Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

    I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.
    This comment is peak DBR. pack it up, guys, time to go home!

    1200. DDMF.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Ggallagher View Post
    Well for the fun of it, I think I'll throw some gasoline on the Bilas commentary. I decided to try a relatively objective evaluation of his work as an experiment. Before I explain the details, I will expose my personal subjective opinion.

    I'm OK with Jay. He annoys me sometimes, but not nearly as much as he does some others here. For a long time, Vitale was nearly the most unbearable, but as someone mentioned previously, he does seem to be slowing down some, and either I've gotten numb to him or he just doesn't work so hard to talk about everything else going on besides the game he's watching. And I challenge anyone to change a channel faster than I do whenever Steven A. Smith pops up. I could go on about other talking heads, but that gives an idea of my feelings. Now back to Jay.

    We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

    Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
    Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
    Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
    Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

    I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

    And the final score was:
    Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
    Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

    So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

    Everyone fell better now
    thanks for the work you put into this...it's odd to see it come out like that....
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Ggallagher View Post

    We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

    Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
    Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
    Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
    Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

    I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

    And the final score was:
    Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
    Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

    So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

    And this is what Jay should have done, because Duke was great and MSU was terrible. Might be different on a night where Duke is struggling. I just find it hilarious when people selectively compare and contrast his commentary on successive nights for Duke and UNC to reinforce their biases. ("LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN HOW HE CALLED THOSE GOALTENDS")

    Hey, whatever makes it easier for you to sleep at night. Personally, I saw Duke stomp a good opponent on the road and UNC get poleaxed at home. As far as I could tell, Bilas was impressed with Duke and pretty unimpressed with UNC. OK by me!

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Ggallagher View Post
    Well for the fun of it, I think I'll throw some gasoline on the Bilas commentary. I decided to try a relatively objective evaluation of his work as an experiment. Before I explain the details, I will expose my personal subjective opinion.

    I'm OK with Jay. He annoys me sometimes, but not nearly as much as he does some others here. For a long time, Vitale was nearly the most unbearable, but as someone mentioned previously, he does seem to be slowing down some, and either I've gotten numb to him or he just doesn't work so hard to talk about everything else going on besides the game he's watching. And I challenge anyone to change a channel faster than I do whenever Steven A. Smith pops up. I could go on about other talking heads, but that gives an idea of my feelings. Now back to Jay.

    We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

    Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
    Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
    Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
    Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

    I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

    And the final score was:
    Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
    Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

    So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

    Everyone fell better now
    Don't let the facts or objective analysis get in the way of a good narrative.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Don't let the facts or objective analysis get in the way of a good narrative.
    in THIS case, you would expect there to be more positive coments about duke since they were cruising. The question is twofold:

    - would the margin be similar were duke getting blown out?
    - does the degree of the positivity matter? For instance, he was negative on both the duke and UNC blown goaltends, but he was significantly more negative on the duke than the UNC one. That would not have been captured in a binary analysis, but likely would have a major impact on people's overall impressions of Jay's biases.
    1200. DDMF.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by reddevil View Post
    yeah, one minute you're watching a basketball game and the next you're learning about blue whales or koalas or something. Walton is on a a trip!
    fify :d

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    in THIS case, you would expect there to be more positive coments about duke since they were cruising. The question is twofold:

    - would the margin be similar were duke getting blown out?
    - does the degree of the positivity matter? For instance, he was negative on both the duke and UNC blown goaltends, but he was significantly more negative on the duke than the UNC one. That would not have been captured in a binary analysis, but likely would have a major impact on people's overall impressions of Jay's biases.
    I appreciate the hard work and documenting, Ggallagher. Thank you for doing that work.

    Having said that, I have to agree with uh no. Had I not deleted the game already I'd have been glad to go back and do some objective research as well. The problem isn't about how many times Jay says something "positive" or "negative" about Duke vs MSU. The issue is the degree, tone of voice, and whether or not he reacts to perceived bad calls the same way across the board. I state emphatically that he does NOT react the same way. And I question anyone that doesn't pick up on that. No offense intended.

    Some of you can now get another good laugh.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    I appreciate the hard work and documenting, Ggallagher. Thank you for doing that work.

    Having said that, I have to agree with uh no. Had I not deleted the game already I'd have been glad to go back and do some objective research as well. The problem isn't about how many times Jay says something "positive" or "negative" about Duke vs MSU. The issue is the degree, tone of voice, and whether or not he reacts to perceived bad calls the same way across the board. I state emphatically that he does NOT react the same way. And I question anyone that doesn't pick up on that. No offense intended. Some of you can now get another good laugh.
    No offense taken whatsoever. I figured this was as likely to create new arguments as it was to silence old ones. And not to get in the mode of going out and buying a better whip to beat a dead horse....

    I did consider how the nature of the game might have changed Jay's commentary. A different take on the fact that the game was in fact so positive for Duke, is that it presented numerous opportunities to step up and say things like..."Well Duke scored then because they got away with two solid bumps before taking the shot" And he did actually make a comment like that - which I recorded as Duke-negative.

    So that was fun, but in the future I'll just watch for fun.

    Go Devils

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Here's a Bilas drinking game!

    -Take a drink every time he says, "That was not a good offensive possession for ________."

    -Take a drink every time he says, "I have to believe that was not the shot that Coach _______ wanted."

    -Take a drink every time he says, "________ has got to do better," or "_____ has got to BE better."

    -Take a drink every time he disagrees with a call by one of the officials.



    See if you can make it to halftime! ;-)
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    my own unofficial assessment was simply vis a vis foul calls, and i gave up after Jay went 4-0 in favor of MSU...even I could discern a trend.
    Jay does know hoops, and he does (and did) praise the things Duke does well, primarily because Duke did a lot of good things well in that game...but his fouling whinage does get tedious.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Ggallagher View Post
    No offense taken whatsoever. I figured this was as likely to create new arguments as it was to silence old ones. And not to get in the mode of going out and buying a better whip to beat a dead horse...

    I did consider how the nature of the game might have changed Jay's commentary. A different take on the fact that the game was in fact so positive for Duke, is that it presented numerous opportunities to step up and say things like..."Well Duke scored then because they got away with two solid bumps before taking the shot" And he did actually make a comment like that - which I recorded as Duke-negative.

    So that was fun, but in the future I'll just watch for fun.

    Go Devils
    Glad to hear you recorded that one statement by Jay as a Duke negative. I remember it well. Makes me feel better about your analysis (not that that means anything or you need my approval - LOL).

    Perhaps, as a final attempt to find middle ground, I might add that for myself I'm not so much interested in generic statements from Mr Bilas about whether or not Duke is good. Things like, "Tre Jones is the best defensive guard in the country" or "this Duke team is one of the best I've seen in years defensively" are not what I'm referring to when it comes to Bilas bias. I'm specifically talking about harping on officiating. Had you only been focused on that as opposed to overall "positive" or "negative" comments concerning Duke would the percentages have changed? I have to believe they would have.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    I appreciate the hard work and documenting, Ggallagher. Thank you for doing that work.

    Having said that, I have to agree with uh no. Had I not deleted the game already I'd have been glad to go back and do some objective research as well. The problem isn't about how many times Jay says something "positive" or "negative" about Duke vs MSU. The issue is the degree, tone of voice, and whether or not he reacts to perceived bad calls the same way across the board. I state emphatically that he does NOT react the same way. And I question anyone that doesn't pick up on that. No offense intended.

    Some of you can now get another good laugh.
    My disdain for Bilas is not whether he’s pro or anti-Duke. My issue is with his enormous ego and arrogance. I recognize many in that field come across with those attributes, but his pompous evaluations grate on me. After hearing David Glenn on local radio for 5 minutes today, I think Bilas and Glenn are the same person (they’re both attorneys and let you know they’re smarter than you are).

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    my own unofficial assessment was simply vis a vis foul calls, and i gave up after Jay went 4-0 in favor of MSU...even I could discern a trend.
    Jay does know hoops, and he does (and did) praise the things Duke does well, primarily because Duke did a lot of good things well in that game...but his fouling whinage does get tedious.
    This largely captures my assessment. I like Jay as an analyst, and when he is actually discussing strategy and execution I appreciate his commentary. But he devotes so much time to second-guessing the officiating that it becomes a distraction. We don't need Zapruder film analysis of a bunch of 50-50 foul calls every game. This isn't football. There are a zillion possessions. Just call the game. Sheesh.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Ggallagher View Post
    Well for the fun of it, I think I'll throw some gasoline on the Bilas commentary. I decided to try a relatively objective evaluation of his work as an experiment. Before I explain the details, I will expose my personal subjective opinion.

    I'm OK with Jay. He annoys me sometimes, but not nearly as much as he does some others here. For a long time, Vitale was nearly the most unbearable, but as someone mentioned previously, he does seem to be slowing down some, and either I've gotten numb to him or he just doesn't work so hard to talk about everything else going on besides the game he's watching. And I challenge anyone to change a channel faster than I do whenever Steven A. Smith pops up. I could go on about other talking heads, but that gives an idea of my feelings. Now back to Jay.

    We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

    Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
    Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
    Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
    Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

    I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

    And the final score was:
    Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
    Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

    So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

    Everyone fell better now
    Has this study been subjected to peer review?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    Seriously, does Bilas get some sort of bonus every time he vocalizes that "Duke is running their horn set".
    Y'know that sounds like a great drinking game idea for the next chat gathering.
    Similar to the Southwest commercials of 2015. Epic presence.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    ...I think Bilas and Glenn are the same person (they’re both attorneys and let you know they’re smarter than you are).
    And then I went to law school, and took a law degree /
    And counseled all my clients to plead drove all of the Duke fans to near-insanity

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Not looking to pick a fight, but vocal criticism of Duke, for many of us, equals "Big Duke fan." You should ask Ms. Sage about my eruptions during Duke basketball games -- most of them are like, "You idiot -- you passed up a a wide open shot." "Don't make THAT pass!" "Arrgghh! There is NO energy on this team!" "Nice move -- you just dribbled into the corner -- dope!"

    And at the end I say, "Good win, Duke!' Or, truly, "Stephen F. Austin de-SERVED to win this stupid game!"
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

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