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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    North Venice, FL

    Golf and Mathematics

    Looking for a mathematician or statistician to give guidance. My golf group of about a dozen guys has started playing a lot of 40-Ball where you chose the lowest 40 net scores (not the score itself, but plus or minus par) from the foursome, the catch being you have to chose how many balls are going to count from each hole before teeing off on the next hole. The question is: if one or two groups is only a threesome and is therefore playing 30-Ball instead, what multiplier do you use to properly compare the 30-Ball score with the 40-Ball score? The simple answer seems to be 1.33, but Iíd argue that that assumes the non-existent fourth player scores every time because you are only using scores that counted and ďrealĒ fourth players donít score every time. Any advice would greatly help resolve our constant debate. Thanks in advance for helping with one of the great problems of the modern world.

  2. #2
    G e e z e

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by szstark View Post
    Looking for a mathematician or statistician to give guidance. My golf group of about a dozen guys has started playing a lot of 40-Ball where you chose the lowest 40 net scores (not the score itself, but plus or minus par) from the foursome, the catch being you have to chose how many balls are going to count from each hole before teeing off on the next hole. The question is: if one or two groups is only a threesome and is therefore playing 30-Ball instead, what multiplier do you use to properly compare the 30-Ball score with the 40-Ball score? The simple answer seems to be 1.33, but I’d argue that that assumes the non-existent fourth player scores every time because you are only using scores that counted and “real” fourth players don’t score every time. Any advice would greatly help resolve our constant debate. Thanks in advance for helping with one of the great problems of the modern world.
    You won't find this thread on IC or PackPride...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by szstark View Post
    Looking for a mathematician or statistician to give guidance. My golf group of about a dozen guys has started playing a lot of 40-Ball where you chose the lowest 40 net scores (not the score itself, but plus or minus par) from the foursome, the catch being you have to chose how many balls are going to count from each hole before teeing off on the next hole. The question is: if one or two groups is only a threesome and is therefore playing 30-Ball instead, what multiplier do you use to properly compare the 30-Ball score with the 40-Ball score? The simple answer seems to be 1.33, but Iíd argue that that assumes the non-existent fourth player scores every time because you are only using scores that counted and ďrealĒ fourth players donít score every time. Any advice would greatly help resolve our constant debate. Thanks in advance for helping with one of the great problems of the modern world.
    Pretty sure it depends on how many left-handed players are in the threesome.

  5. #5
    <Puts on Carnac the Magnificent hat>. "What are two things that require beer for me to get through?"

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by szstark
    Looking for a mathematician or statistician to give guidance. My golf group of about a dozen guys has started playing a lot of 40-Ball where you chose the lowest 40 net scores (not the score itself, but plus or minus par) from the foursome, the catch being you have to chose how many balls are going to count from each hole before teeing off on the next hole. The question is: if one or two groups is only a threesome and is therefore playing 30-Ball instead, what multiplier do you use to properly compare the 30-Ball score with the 40-Ball score? The simple answer seems to be 1.33, but I’d argue that that assumes the non-existent fourth player scores every time because you are only using scores that counted and “real” fourth players don’t score every time. Any advice would greatly help resolve our constant debate. Thanks in advance for helping with one of the great problems of the modern world.
    Chuck certainly knows the answer. Just email your question to cbarkley@bs.com

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Pretty sure it depends on how many left-handed players are in the threesome.
    And the average length of their drives.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    And the average length of their drives.
    Let's not forget the power source for the golf cars. Are they electric or gas? Very crucial variable.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    I'm an avid golfer, but I have no idea what you mean when you say "40-ball," and your explanation, including the catch, doesn't help much. Maybe you could explain it in a different way? Is the 4-some playing 9 holes or 18 holes? Do they have to count scores for every hole? Do you use handicap or not?

    Maybe if I understood what you were actually doing, I'd be able to help you figure out how to resolve the problem.
    A plane takes off from Baltimore and touches down on Bourbon Street

  10. #10
    I had high hopes from the thread title the question was going to be ďhow many beers can I have during a round before I have to Lyft home?Ē 🍻

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    I'm an avid golfer, but I have no idea what you mean when you say "40-ball," and your explanation, including the catch, doesn't help much. Maybe you could explain it in a different way? Is the 4-some playing 9 holes or 18 holes? Do they have to count scores for every hole? Do you use handicap or not?

    Maybe if I understood what you were actually doing, I'd be able to help you figure out how to resolve the problem.
    Ditto here. Even after reading it, I don't fully understand, but this explanation might help, maybe, a little, perhaps: http://www.myusualgame.com/2013/06/0...-ball-40-ball/
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Like is this gonna be in the Ryder Cup soon?

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Whoís gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by left_hook_lacey View Post
    You won't find this thread on IC or PackPride...
    Darn skippy you won't find this thread on Pack Pride!

    NC State has a PGA Golf Management degree...and you guys ARE JUST MAKING STUFF UP!!! Have some respect for the game and then come talk to your friendly NC State grad who likely has the know how to make your next game of golf as perfect as it can be.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    North Venice, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Ditto here. Even after reading it, I don't fully understand, but this explanation might help, maybe, a little, perhaps: http://www.myusualgame.com/2013/06/0...-ball-40-ball/
    This link explains the game fairly well, but Iíll also give it a try. 40-Ball is a net game for a team of 4 players. You must use a total of 40 net scores across the round of 18 holes. Letís say on the first hole, the team has two net birdies, one net par, and a net bogie. Before teeing off on hole #2, the team must decide how many of the balls just played to count against the eventual mandatory 40. In this case, you would definitely count the 2 birdies to make the team -2. You could also choose to use the net par, still making you -2, but using 3 balls so you only have 37 left for the remaining 17 holes. It is a game of strategy in that you donít want to leave too many balls for the last several holes so that you might have to take net bogies or worse just to reach your total of 40, but you also donít want to take too many net pars early in the round thus reducing the possible number of birdies you might get later. Most people really enjoy the game because it really takes the pressure off the one player having a bad hole (you just donít count his score for that hole) or a bad day (you only count the few good holes or none at all, but that puts a lot of pressure on the other three to total 40 balls and still have a reasonably good team score). Somewhere around -20 usually wins in our group. The problem arises when we donít have an even number of foursomes. The threesomes play virtually the same game, but use only 30 balls. Since they obviously have fewer chances for negative scores (birdies or better), their score needs to be factored to compare it to the teams playing 40 balls. The question is: what is that factor?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by szstark View Post
    The problem arises when we donít have an even number of foursomes. The threesomes play virtually the same game, but use only 30 balls. Since they obviously have fewer chances for negative scores (birdies or better), their score needs to be factored to compare it to the teams playing 40 balls. The question is: what is that factor?
    That link explains it quite simply.

    The game can be played with any number of players, in any combination. If you have four-man teams, each team counts forty scores; if you are playing as individuals, each player counts ten. If you have a threesome versus a foursome, the threesome counts thirty balls, then divides by three, while the foursome counts forty balls, then divides by four.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fuse View Post
    I had high hopes from the thread title the question was going to be ďhow many beers can I have during a round before I have to Lyft home?Ē 🍻
    The answer is get your buddy to drive!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by szstark View Post
    This link explains the game fairly well, but Iíll also give it a try. 40-Ball is a net game for a team of 4 players. You must use a total of 40 net scores across the round of 18 holes. Letís say on the first hole, the team has two net birdies, one net par, and a net bogie. Before teeing off on hole #2, the team must decide how many of the balls just played to count against the eventual mandatory 40. In this case, you would definitely count the 2 birdies to make the team -2. You could also choose to use the net par, still making you -2, but using 3 balls so you only have 37 left for the remaining 17 holes. It is a game of strategy in that you donít want to leave too many balls for the last several holes so that you might have to take net bogies or worse just to reach your total of 40, but you also donít want to take too many net pars early in the round thus reducing the possible number of birdies you might get later. Most people really enjoy the game because it really takes the pressure off the one player having a bad hole (you just donít count his score for that hole) or a bad day (you only count the few good holes or none at all, but that puts a lot of pressure on the other three to total 40 balls and still have a reasonably good team score). Somewhere around -20 usually wins in our group. The problem arises when we donít have an even number of foursomes. The threesomes play virtually the same game, but use only 30 balls. Since they obviously have fewer chances for negative scores (birdies or better), their score needs to be factored to compare it to the teams playing 40 balls. The question is: what is that factor?
    This sounds like a great game, but you have to have a pretty big group to play it. How many 3- and 4-somes do you usually have?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    So if bogey is a really good score for you...

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Whoís gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    Darn skippy you won't find this thread on Pack Pride!

    NC State has a PGA Golf Management degree...and you guys ARE JUST MAKING STUFF UP!!! Have some respect for the game and then come talk to your friendly NC State grad who likely has the know how to make your next game of golf as perfect as it can be.
    "You must spread some Comments around before commenting on PackMan97 again."

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Whoís gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    North Venice, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    This sounds like a great game, but you have to have a pretty big group to play it. How many 3- and 4-somes do you usually have?
    It is a great game. Tuesdays we usually have three groups. Saturdays we have 4 or 5.

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