MBB: Duke 68, Kansas 66 Post-Game Thread

[DukeinDC]

I gave up on giving any credence to Jay Bilas’s comments about Duke’s basketball teams more than 20 years ago. I’m surprised it took you this long.

This is true but it did feel like the first 20 min were literally a commentary about what we don’t have this year to the point it should be a motivational video for this team.

Truth be told, Bilas is very much in the Brotherhood fold. I think he over compensates but if/when something hits the fan on the compliance or whatever side - real or not - he’s also well positioned to give air time to the programs point of view.

And while now this is becoming a different topic all together as many said before, notable that Bilas is one of the most vocal advocates of player compensation and while many coaches obfuscated during media days, K purposefully helped shove the NCAA to over a ledge on this issue they were never willing to consider.

I’m short, they be tight. Hold our fire on him and play the long game.

[ShaneRyan]

Wonderful game, and I don't have much to add, but I would just like to say how awesome it is to have a point guard who basically shuts down his opposite number in almost every game. Really changes the dynamic of the game and constricts space to the point that some of these turnovers are inevitable. God help any opponent of ours this year who relies too heavily on PG play to facilitate offense.

[KandG]

I'm not going to take much out of this game. But the few things I will take...

1) our defense is ahead of our offense
2) we don't appear to have anyone who is truly miles ahead skill-wise
3) 3pt shooting is not clearly fixed since last year and Tre still cant shoot

That's about all from me. But I'm obviously jazzed and enjoyed watching the team in person tonight.

Should be a fun year with a lot of ups and downs.

Agree, I can't get too worked up about a game this early in the season (even against such a good opponent), though it was really nice to see our young guys take charge, and watch the whole team weather some ugly stretches of play to hold on for the win.

Fascinating that as the game came down to the final possessions, re point 2 bolded above, I really couldn't figure out who the primary option would be (assuming Kansas didn't have a glaring defensive lapse and left someone wide open). Trying to remember the last time I watched a Duke game and felt that way. Even our "lesser" teams over the last decade plus usually had someone you knew was going to get the ball if it came down to a face-up isolation or post up (Ingram, Rivers, Allen, Henderson, etc).

The ball will be in Tre's hands, but he's not an especially skilled isolation scorer (nice clinching bucket though). I know that as the team gets more practice time, Vernon may well by the primary option, or Hurt. But we're a long way from Zion/RJ/Jah territory. A lot of different cooks may be involved in producing results this season.

That defense looks great early though. And I love Jack's headiness, versatility, and overall hustle on both ends. Sure hope Joey Baker can show us some things in the lesser games coming up.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

This is far too fantastic not to post...

329F0774-A8E5-47B4-8034-83B28EB6DDFF.jpg

[Kedsy]

Great win against a top 5 team. Crazily enough, however, we only did one thing particularly well:

OFFENSE

Possessions: 80.14 (that's a very fast-paced game)
oRtg: 0.85 (that's really bad)
eFG%: 42.2% (also really bad)
3pt%: 33.3% (not awful but not good)
2pt%: 37.5% (awful)
%threes: 37.5% (OK, probably a little high for a team that didn't shoot so well)
FT rate: 35.9% (pretty good, but not outstanding)
OR%: 26.8% (dreadful)
TO%: 20.0% (not good)
a/to: 0.75:1 (somewhat bad)
%assisted: 52.2% (fine, but not great)
fast break pts: 15 (22.0% of points; decent)

DEFENSE

dRtg: 0.82 (excellent, but seemingly for just one reason)
eFG%: 50.0% (not good)
3pt%: 44.4% (bad)
2pt%: 46.3% (not bad, but not great)
%threes: 18.0% (if they're going to shoot that well from three, good thing we didn't give them many open looks from out there)
FT rate: 52.0% (kinda terrible)
DR%: 65.5% (meh)
TO%: 34.9% (incredibly good)
a/to: 0.46:1 (you don't see top 5 teams with numbers like this very often)
%assisted: 56.5% (so when they didn't turn it over, they tended to connect)
stl%: 13.7% (good)
blk%: 6.0% (7.3% of 2pt shots) (not great)
fast break pts: 17 (25.8% of points; poor)


So, like I said, good thing we were so amazing at forcing turnovers because we didn't do much else at a high level. If future opponents can hold onto the ball better than Kansas, we're going to have to improve on both sides of the ball.

Sure, it wasn't a 30+ point blowout like last year's Kentucky game, but as we saw, that game wasn't exactly a predictor of future success.

Last year's Duke team won the ACC tournament, was the #1 overall seed in the NCAAT, and came within one basket of the Final Four. What kind of predictor were you looking for?

[bigperm13]

Most wins at any level for Coach K. Take a bow. Just don't do it here because you didn't play Joey Baker. Duke would have easily won by at least 30 had he put in JBizzle. They would have probably renamed it Baker Square Garden as well. I recant the take a bow. Duke needs a new coach. Stat. Preferably one with way less than 1133 wins.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Wonderful game, and I don't have much to add, but I would just like to say how awesome it is to have a point guard who basically shuts down his opposite number in almost every game. Really changes the dynamic of the game and constricts space to the point that some of these turnovers are inevitable. God help any opponent of ours this year who relies too heavily on PG play to facilitate offense.

I’m looking forward to seeing how Tre does in the Dec 3 rematch with C Winston & Co.

[proelitedota]

The highlight of the game has to be this KU possession for me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBask...in_a_nutshell/

[Dukehk]

Hoping this team continues to grow on the offensive end as well. We need to find our go-to scorers. Looking like Tre and Carey for now. Hurt surprisingly not in the lineup during crunchtime.

We certainly are a gritty defensive team though. That bodes well as always.

Its been a long time since we've had such depth too. Alot of guys fighting for minutes. Hopefully Joey stays patient.

[UrinalCake]

When Tre got that shooter’s bounce with a minute left after the shot hit every part of the rim, was I the only one thinking how much I would have liked to have that happen two seasons ago?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Truth be told, Bilas is very much in the Brotherhood fold. I think he over compensates ....
I’m short, they be tight. Hold our fire on him and play the long game.

Hmmm, strange. I would be interested in evidence that he is "very much" in the brotherhood fold. Oh, yeah, he over compensates....and he has been for 20 years. How long of a long game are you playing? I won't hold my fire on him.

[BullBlue]

The highlight of the game has to be this KU possession for me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBask...in_a_nutshell/

Yes! That was great, my favorite, too.

[lotusland]

I thought he was pretty good in just contributing to the general defensive pressure (backdoors aside, and a couple of those are always going to happen with the pressure), even if he wasn't the one coming up with the steals. That said, if AOC is going to be reasonably effective defensively (as he definitely was tonight), I'd be surprised if he doesn't take Goldwire's starting job, moving Goldwire into a more natural spot as the primary backup point who can also play beside Jones. He just offers so much more variety offensively, and the fact that he's bigger (or longer, at least) makes for some interesting matchup options.

And agreed: I'd be shocked if we see less of Stanley going forward. If anything, I'd guess that his role increases as the year goes on (I'm intrigued to see him being a bit more aggressive as a off-the-dribble creator on offense).

Stanley played 30 minutes, second to only Trey, so his role was pretty big. Idk if he can average more than 30mpg with so many options at wing but his play stood out among the freshmen. I never know what to expect with freshmen but his game is more complete than I expected.

[91devil]

Ditto. Who does Carey remind you of? I’m trying to come up with a comp for him for some of the other bigs we’ve had recently and I just can’t put my finger on it.

Anyway, great win for the guys and great to be in Cameron North for this one. Business as usual for the Blue Devils in the Big Apple.

To me, I think the (early) comp is Josh McRoberts. Both left-handed, both with a fluid outside shot. Vernon looks to have a stronger post game and Josh had better passing skills. Of course this comp is based on one game.

But the left-handed thing is what stood out to me.

[lotusland]

5 thoughts...

(preface - love that college hoops has started again!)

1. Ugly game. Duke's D was good, but KU absolutely was terrible with the ball as well, not all caused by Duke alone. Before anyone declares this team the 2nd coming of the '92 team, let's see how they do against other competition. Seriously, KU made some questionable plays with the ball (as did Duke - their 16 turnovers isn't so great, either).

2. Jones - he scored and hit the FTs to seal the game. But overall I was really hoping to see a better shooting game out of him. He looked a lot like the player from last year.

3. Hurt, Carey, AOC - take more 3's, boys! This team needs to have shots go down, especially if K continues to use the Jones/JGold combo a lot. It's ok for a few minutes here and there, but only if the other guys are shooters. Then the guards can drive and dish.

4. I'm fearing another year of questionable FT shooting. It sunk the Devils last year (I loved Barrett, but his missed FT killed the season against MSU). Missed FTs take years off my life.

5. I liked the new rules - the 3 pt line, the reduced shot clock after an offensive board. Of course, the new 3 pt line is going to make it all the harder on Jones. I have a really negative thought in my head with a comparison to a former OSU PG... Jones is not that bad (at least he can hit FTs), but for Duke to win big this year, he's going to need to be effective from 3.

9F

I disagree on point number 2. Tre was much more prominent last night than on last year’s team. He was in charge. I don’t think we’ll see Tre standing in the corner unguarded this year. The offense is going through him. I think he will become more efficient as he gets comfortable with his teammates. On a couple of his drives there was no movement without the ball by his teammates. I think guys will learn to find their spots on the court for Trey to find them. There’s no RJ, and Cam this year so Trey will be in the driver seat all year.

[TruBlu]

Hmmm, strange. I would be interested in evidence that he is "very much" in the brotherhood fold. Oh, yeah, he over compensates...and he has been for 20 years. How long of a long game are you playing? I won't hold my fire on him.

In fairness, Jay actually last night pointed out TWO (2) ref calls that went in the favor of Kansas. One was a foul called on Stanley where there was “little, if no contact”. Of course, this doesn’t make up for the numerous times he pointed out that Duke got “favorable” calls. Baby steps for Jay...maybe he is headed toward less over compensating.

[fuse]

If you had told me we shot 37% FG with 33% 3s, 61% FT, outrebounded by 10 and won the game, I'd think you were a lunatic.

If you had told me before the game that Tre would be our leading scorer and Stanley our second leading scorer, I’d ask you to buy me a lottery ticket.

[JStuart]

In fairness, Jay actually last night pointed out TWO (2) ref calls that went in the favor of Kansas. One was a foul called on Stanley where there was “little, if no contact”. Of course, this doesn’t make up for the numerous times he pointed out that Duke got “favorable” calls. Baby steps for Jay...maybe he is headed toward less over compensating.

Agreed, plus he used a way softer voice than in previous broadcasts, when he would use a more indignant tone. But, it is early in the season yet, I'm confident Jay will get back into his usual snarkiness on calls that Duke gets away with.

[Spanarkel]

You can't win a game with 28 turnovers against a decent opponent. I wonder if that going to be an issue for Kansas this year. Tre Jones can do every thing extremely well except shoot from outside. White had a good game. We should have someone punch him in the mouth before every shot maybe, as he hit a nice three after taking a hit. Otherwise, he is not a shooter. Nice game from Stanley, after he settled down and he was out on the floor at at least some of the end, some nice moments from Hurt, and DeLaurier helped today, doing good DeLaurier things. Some nice offense from O'Connell. Moore still learning. Carey played well, especially for his first division I game, and even hit two threes. I noticed that his shot is on target, but lacks spin/arc. If he could develop those and get some good bounces...I don't wonder if shooting is going to be an issue this year. That's because it is going to be an issue this year.

Not sure what you're referring to here, as Carey's outside shot has a nice arc(couldn't tell about the spin).

[SkyBrickey]

Ditto. Who does Carey remind you of? I’m trying to come up with a comp for him for some of the other bigs we’ve had recently and I just can’t put my finger on it.

Anyway, great win for the guys and great to be in Cameron North for this one. Business as usual for the Blue Devils in the Big Apple.

I don't know that there's a recent comp, but when I saw him play in CTC, he reminded me of Elton Brand. Light on his feet. Great footwork. Muscles inside for baskets. Soft hands and soft touch around the rim.

You are right that it's hard to read too much into going up against big U. last night - freshman Brand would have likely struggled. I would say Elton Brand rebounded and defended better out of the gate, but Carey is a much better outside shooter. I don't expect Carey to be a #1 draft pick, but that's who is game most reminds me of.

I should add too that Brand LOVED banging inside and while Carey is definitely built for it, he plays a more inside/outside game (which I can't fault him for since that's where the modern game has moved).