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Thread: Kyrie at duke

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Kyrie at duke

    Kyrie - a grest basketball player, but....
    I really don't think from a basketball standpaoint, he should have been inserted at the end of the game in -- well, whatever year. Nolan Smith was doing fine, and while Kyrie made great plays, we lost. i do not criticize Coach K, he probably had to do it, but it wasm't forr the best of the team, in my view. I have harbored these thought ever since the game, but been unwilling to subject myself to the criticism. Have at at it. I believe what I believe, and will suffer for it.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by mgtr View Post
    Kyrie - a grest basketball player, but...
    I really don't think from a basketball standpaoint, he should have been inserted at the end of the game in -- well, whatever year. Nolan Smith was doing fine, and while Kyrie made great plays, we lost. i do not criticize Coach K, he probably had to do it, but it wasm't forr the best of the team, in my view. I have harbored these thought ever since the game, but been unwilling to subject myself to the criticism. Have at at it. I believe what I believe, and will suffer for it.
    Don’t suffer for your belief. My take: Coach K does not play players because he has to. Is he infallible? Of course not. But he wants to win, baby.
    Carolina delenda est

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by mgtr View Post
    Kyrie - a grest basketball player, but...
    I really don't think from a basketball standpaoint, he should have been inserted at the end of the game in -- well, whatever year. Nolan Smith was doing fine, and while Kyrie made great plays, we lost. i do not criticize Coach K, he probably had to do it, but it wasm't forr the best of the team, in my view. I have harbored these thought ever since the game, but been unwilling to subject myself to the criticism. Have at at it. I believe what I believe, and will suffer for it.
    I thought it then and I still think it today: Kyrie should not have played in the NCAA Tournament. The boys were doing just fine without him. Not only that, but Kyrie was noticeably pudgy and out of shape. He really wasn’t the same player from earlier in the season, nor should anyone have expected him to be.

    It was not his fault the way things played out. He did the best he could. That team would have blitzed the opposition all the way to a repeat National Championship had Kyrie not gotten hurt. Such a shame.
       

  4. #4
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    I appreciate the comments and I feel better. Thanks.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mgtr View Post
    I appreciate the comments and I feel better. Thanks.
    Derrick Williams says hello. You can hold him responsible for Duke losing that game, not Coach K or Kyrie. Dude was unconscious.
       

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by devilnfla View Post
    Derrick Williams says hello. You can hold him responsible for Duke losing that game, not Coach K or Kyrie. Dude was unconscious.
    Yes, Williams played well, but the Duke defense was absolutely destroyed by Arizona. They penetrated at will time after time after time as if there were no defense at all. And that had very little to do with Derrick Williams. The aforementioned Kyrie Irving played a very significant role in Duke’s defensive collapse.
       

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilnfla View Post
    Derrick Williams says hello. You can hold him responsible for Duke losing that game, not Coach K or Kyrie. Dude was unconscious.
    Single elimination tournament produces lots of strange results in the Final Four.

    Arizona should have been trailing by 12 at intermission -- except for two very well guarded 3-pointers that had no business being good. Zona was totally amped at halftime, realizing they had dodged a bullet. The Cats, esp. Mr. Williams, were unconsciously good in the second half. By the way, Sir Charles predicted this at halftime

    Would Duke have lost to Arizona had Kyrie been available all season? I don't think so. Gary Williams, for one, thought that Duke would have gone undefeated. So, I believe there was a price paid from Kyrie being out -- even after he had returned.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  8. #8
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    Durham
    If Kyrie is not hurt we do not play Arizona in the West regional. We are either in the East or Southeast, because our record would have been much better.

  9. #9
    I was honestly thinking today after hearing of another athlete with turf toe... How injured was Kyrie?
       

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Yes, Williams played well, but the Duke defense was absolutely destroyed by Arizona. They penetrated at will time after time after time as if there were no defense at all. And that had very little to do with Derrick Williams. The aforementioned Kyrie Irving played a very significant role in Duke’s defensive collapse.
    Take a look at the box score. DW was 5 of 6 from 3pt range and had 32 points. Arizona hit 9 3s against us. That was the difference. Kyrie was our best player in that game. He finished with 28 pts on 9 of 15 from the field and 2 of 4 from 3.

    I agree Kyrie was not 100%, but even at that he was still our best player. Defenses in general tend to collapse when the opponent is throwing in bombs from distance, and a bunch of those were contested.
       

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by devilnfla View Post
    Take a look at the box score. DW was 5 of 6 from 3pt range and had 32 points. Arizona hit 9 3s against us. That was the difference. Kyrie was our best player in that game. He finished with 28 pts on 9 of 15 from the field and 2 of 4 from 3.

    I agree Kyrie was not 100%, but even at that he was still our best player. Defenses in general tend to collapse when the opponent is throwing in bombs from distance, and a bunch of those were contested.
    I’m not meaning to be rude, but honestly, it’s inaccurate to think one can look at a box score and determine with any confidence what went on during the game. Box scores are notoriously deceptive.

    Kyrie was absolutely not Duke’s best player that night. His defense was non-existent. He was constantly beaten by his man and was slow on help defense. On offense he didn’t control the flow of the game well, did a poor job of keeping his teammates involved, and rarely got them the ball in a good position to score.
       

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    I’m not meaning to be rude, but honestly, it’s inaccurate to think one can look at a box score and determine with any confidence what went on during the game. Box scores are notoriously deceptive.

    Kyrie was absolutely not Duke’s best player that night. His defense was non-existent. He was constantly beaten by his man and was slow on help defense. On offense he didn’t control the flow of the game well, did a poor job of keeping his teammates involved, and rarely got them the ball in a good position to score.
    My take is not whether Kyrie was a net positive or net negative in the Arizona game, but that it was Nolan who had difficulty adjusting to Kyrie's return. I'm sure the first thing out of folks' mouths will be that "Kyrie didn't start against Arizona genius" and that's true. But coming out of the ACC tournament, when Duke beat a UNC team many thought was quite a bit more talented, Duke was CLEARLY Nolan's team, as he had finally and fully adjusted to being the playmaker, evidenced by his 20 points and 10 assists against the Holes. It was his fire that in no small measure propelled the team that evening as he drove and dished to Duke's cutters and shooters on the perimeter. There's no way to prove the point, but with Kyrie's return, I think Nolan struggled to find himself again, as he had earlier in his career at Duke. The story isn't that Kyrie went off for 28 but that Nolan went 3 for 14 with 2 assists, 0 for 3 from the arc. Personally I think to play Kyrie extended minutes in that game was one of K's poorer coaching moves--understandable as it's hard to keep a Lamborghini locked up in the garage--but ultimately a bad decision. You can imagine the heat K would have taken had Duke still lost and he had NOT played Kyrie, but Kyrie's style and incredible talent upset the team's chemistry and there simply was not enough time to recover.
    Last edited by CameronBlue; 10-11-2019 at 11:45 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    My take is not whether Kyrie was a net positive or net negative in the Arizona game, but that it was Nolan who had difficulty adjusting to Kyrie's return. I'm sure the first thing out of folks' mouths will be that "Kyrie didn't start against Arizona genius" and that's true. But coming out of the ACC tournament, when Duke beat a UNC team many thought was quite a bit more talented, Duke was CLEARLY Nolan's team, as he had finally and fully adjusted to being the playmaker, evidenced by his 20 points and 10 assists against the Holes. It was his fire that in no small measure propelled the team that evening as he drove and dished to Duke's cutters and shooters on the perimeter. There's no way to prove the point, but with Kyrie's return, I think Nolan struggled to find himself again, as he had earlier in his career at Duke. The story isn't that Kyrie went off for 28 but that Nolan went 3 for 14 with 2 assists, 0 for 3 from the arc. Personally I think to play Kyrie extended minutes in that game was one of K's poorer coaching moves--understandable as it's hard to keep a Lamborghini locked up in the garage--but ultimately a bad decision. You can imagine the heat K would have taken had Duke still lost and he had NOT played Kyrie, but Kyrie's style and incredible talent upset the team's chemistry and there simply was not enough time to recover.
    I even thought that Nolan looked "lost" and somewhat "unsure" of himself... having to play with Kyrie. And maybe even the team was a bit unsure with Kyrie. After all, they played almost an entire season (most importantly, ACC season, ACC tournament) without Kyrie.

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Both preceding posts make my point: This was Nolan'steam, which was wrenched from him and handed to Kyrie, to no avail. I feel sorry for all involved.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    My take is not whether Kyrie was a net positive or net negative in the Arizona game, but that it was Nolan who had difficulty adjusting to Kyrie's return. I'm sure the first thing out of folks' mouths will be that "Kyrie didn't start against Arizona genius" and that's true. But coming out of the ACC tournament, when Duke beat a UNC team many thought was quite a bit more talented, Duke was CLEARLY Nolan's team, as he had finally and fully adjusted to being the playmaker, evidenced by his 20 points and 10 assists against the Holes. It was his fire that in no small measure propelled the team that evening as he drove and dished to Duke's cutters and shooters on the perimeter. There's no way to prove the point, but with Kyrie's return, I think Nolan struggled to find himself again, as he had earlier in his career at Duke. The story isn't that Kyrie went off for 28 but that Nolan went 3 for 14 with 2 assists, 0 for 3 from the arc. Personally I think to play Kyrie extended minutes in that game was one of K's poorer coaching moves--understandable as it's hard to keep a Lamborghini locked up in the garage--but ultimately a bad decision. You can imagine the heat K would have taken had Duke still lost and he had NOT played Kyrie, but Kyrie's style and incredible talent upset the team's chemistry and there simply was not enough time to recover.
    Completely agree with this. It wasn't just Nolan, it was the whole team. There was a little bit of standing around watching Kyrie zip around the court. He still got numbers but the whole flow and identify of the team was thrown out of whack.

    What I would have preferred (knowing full well I am no Coach K) with the benefit of hindsight is to contain Kyrie's role ONLY to the second unit and playing bench minutes. So the starters play like they always do and our second unit would have a massive spark.

    In my opinion, one of Coach K's rare missteps.
       

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    I’m not meaning to be rude, but honestly, it’s inaccurate to think one can look at a box score and determine with any confidence what went on during the game. Box scores are notoriously deceptive.

    Kyrie was absolutely not Duke’s best player that night. His defense was non-existent. He was constantly beaten by his man and was slow on help defense. On offense he didn’t control the flow of the game well, did a poor job of keeping his teammates involved, and rarely got them the ball in a good position to score.
    I don't take your comments as rude.

    I'm only using the box score to help prove my point or opinion. It's my memory of that game and how it flowed that I'm mostly leaning on here. As I remember it, Duke was fine jumping out to a big lead and then DW just went off right before the half. At that point the confidence of our team just diminished and never seemed to recover. I don't remember anyone playing great defense at that point. As someone stated earlier we all were yearning for Kyrie to play and most of us including me would have questioned K had he limited Kyrie and we lost. Also, it's important to remember, Kyrie had been practicing with the team prior to this and played a decent amount of minutes in the 2 previous games the weekend before.
       

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Greensboro

    Question Chemistry Blown

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtr View Post
    Both preceding posts make my point: This was Nolan'steam, which was wrenched from him and handed to Kyrie, to no avail. I feel sorry for all involved.
    After Kyrie, with all his skill, came back, team chemistry was sacrificed to show off skill rather than team. I've never gotten over that either.

  18. #18
    2011 is just another example of if we had a better coach, we’d have about 12 or 13 titles. 86, 94, 98, 99, 02, 04, 11 - fire Coach K!!! He’s cost us so, so much.
       

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by revmel53 View Post
    After Kyrie, with all his skill, came back, team chemistry was sacrificed to show off skill rather than team. I've never gotten over that either.
    Don't sweat it. The way Arizona played and shot - no one was beating them, period. It was a performance for the ages for them. They absolutely peaked that game and got blown out in the next round. Even with chemistry, Duke wasn't winning that game.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by devilnfla View Post
    Derrick Williams says hello. You can hold him responsible for Duke losing that game, not Coach K or Kyrie. Dude was unconscious.
    Yep, it was a performance for the ages...it's amazing how some around here don't understand what they're watching when you have one of those historical nights. Williams had one and it launched his team to maybe the best game the U of A has ever played. No one in the country would have beaten them that night. Duke being Duke, we face a pretty good number of "games for the ages" from opponents who look at playing Duke as their career Super Bowl. This was the case that night with Zona.

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