2019-2020 NBA Regular Season Thread

[Steven43]

Luka Doncic is an absolute beast. I've seen the outrageous stats but hadn't watched a full game of his yet this year, and MAN. He's incredible. There just aren't that many guys in the NBA right now where they just dictate everything about every single offensive play, where the best play is always just "let this guy run stuff.” He just has EVERYTHING offensively.

He’s just completely in control of the offense when he's in the game even when he's not scoring. If he keeps this up, he's a lock to be an All Star (maybe a starter?) and an All-NBA guy this year. If you're starting a franchise from scratch right now, do you take anyone other than Giannis ahead of him?

Au contraire, you take Doncic over Antetokounmpo every day of the week and twice on Sundays. It’s not even a contest. Doncic is better at just about every single thing.

Antetokounmpo is almost 25 and not far from being maxed out as a player. Doncic is 20 and improving on a nearly daily basis. By the time he’s 25 he will be so far beyond the current level of Antetokounmpo that it will be astonishing. In fact, I think he already might be.

[TheOldBattleship]

The Mavs are up 45 halfway through the 3rd on GS and Luka has his 7th triple double of the season. He also had more points, rebounds, and assists than the entire GS team in the first quarter. He's averaging 30 points and 9 assists a game. At 20. Wow.

James Harden is also being even more James Harden. I suspect he'll do his best to keep his average up now that he's out of the shoot at 39 points/game. Feels a bit like the season Westbrook averaged the triple double.

Giannis probably rounding out the early stages MVP race with 30 points/14 rebounds.

That Mavs game was pretty wild. Golden State had looked moderately competitive the past few games, and actually won last night in Memphis, but tonight on a second game of a road-trip back-to-back, Draymond Green sat out, and they got absolutely spanked. Luka ends with 35/10/11 and a +45 in 26 min(!?!?!). This year with Draymond in and out due to some nagging injuries has actually a pretty good testament to how good Draymond actually is. He's not putting up big numbers, but when he plays, they can be relatively competitive; when he sits, they often look like a complete trainwreck, especially defensively.

The MVP race is going to be SUPER interesting. Both Giannis and Harden are going to put up just absolute historically monstrous numbers in ways that are, I think, likely to turn some people off (as we saw with Harden last year). They both control the ball SO much, though it's more obvious with Harden, and the aesthetics of what they do aren't exactly what a lot of people/voters seem to want out of basketball (again, probably more obviously true with Harden). Should be fascinating to track throughout the year.

[Duke79UNLV77]

[QUOTE=TheOldBattleship;1199269This year with Draymond in and out due to some nagging injuries has actually a pretty good testament to how good Draymond actually is. He's not putting up big numbers, but when he plays, they can be relatively competitive; when he sits, they often look like a complete trainwreck, especially defensively.[/QUOTE]

I would say this year shows how much trouble you’re in if Draymond is higher than your 4th option. He is well below league average as a shooter and a scorer. He’s a so-so rebounder. He’s good at passing, but his assists go down a lot when he’s not playing with 3 amazing scorers. He’s very good at defense, but I still think he’s overrated there. GS has been mostly very bad when he plays, too. Some here have argued that he’s a top 10 and even top 5 player in the league. I don’t think he’s anywhere close. He’s an excellent fit as a role player with the amazing talent GS has had, but if he’s one of your talk couple of guys, you’re playing for a high lottery pick

[awhom111]

The Mavs are up 45 halfway through the 3rd on GS and Luka has his 7th triple double of the season. He also had more points, rebounds, and assists than the entire GS team in the first quarter. He's averaging 30 points and 9 assists a game. At 20. Wow.

James Harden is also being even more James Harden. I suspect he'll do his best to keep his average up now that he's out of the shoot at 39 points/game. Feels a bit like the season Westbrook averaged the triple double.

Giannis probably rounding out the early stages MVP race with 30 points/14 rebounds.

Great to see Paul George back with ferocity. He and Kawhi are going to be a terror in LA. LeBron defying age and Dwight Howard having himself a little rebirth and, so far, his teammates don't seem to hate him.

It's a hell of a time to be a stat stuffer in the NBA.

Overall, some pretty fun early season story lines and its nice to have GS out of the mix. Its early but we may have seismic event in Los Angeles next spring...

...of course, I'm really just here for Zion this season.

With Curry injured, Harden has missed more 3 points than any player has even attempted so far this season.

[Steven43]

l He’s very good at defense, but I still think he’s overrated there.

Draymond Green was voted NBA All-Defensive First Team in 2015, 2016, and 2017. He was voted NBA All-Defensive Second Team in 2018 and 2019. He was the NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 2017. These things don’t happen by accident.

With what can you counter this broad evidence of his perceived defensive prowess? Do you think all of these voters were somehow just fooled into thinking he’s better than he is? What would account for those whose profession it is to follow the NBA on a daily basis to collectively overrate Draymond Green?

[Duke79UNLV77]

Draymond Green was voted NBA All-Defensive First Team in 2015, 2016, and 2017. He was voted NBA All-Defensive Second Team in 2018 and 2019. He was the NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 2017. These things don’t happen by accident.

With what can you counter this broad evidence of his perceived defensive prowess? Do you think all of these voters were somehow just fooled into thinking he’s better than he is? What would account for those whose profession it is to follow the NBA on a daily basis to collectively overrate Draymond Green?

I think he is very good on defense, but still overrated. I think Thompson and Durant were rated highly on defense, but still underrated, and actually better choices to defend the opposing team's best offensive players, which is what they usually did. Of course, Draymond's peers voted him the most overrated player in the league, which I recall you dismissed in arguing he is actually one of the top 5 overall players in the NBA. Even if he were one of the top 5 defenders in the NBA, which I don't think, he would be far from one of the top 5 overall players because he's so, so far below average as a scorer and shooter, despite being able to shoot almost exclusively what should be very high percentage shots during his tenure with GS. He's also just an average, at best, rebounder. He's a very good passer, but not as elite in that area when not playing with the Splash Brothers and KD.

[Steven43]

I think he is very good on defense, but still overrated. I think Thompson and Durant were rated highly on defense, but still underrated, and actually better choices to defend the opposing team's best offensive players, which is what they usually did. Of course, Draymond's peers voted him the most overrated player in the league, which I recall you dismissed in arguing he is actually one of the top 5 overall players in the NBA. Even if he were one of the top 5 defenders in the NBA, which I don't think, he would be far from one of the top 5 overall players because he's so, so far below average as a scorer and shooter, despite being able to shoot almost exclusively what should be very high percentage shots during his tenure with GS. He's also just an average, at best, rebounder. He's a very good passer, but not as elite in that area when not playing with the Splash Brothers and KD.

Nope. there is NO WAY I said he is one of the top 5 players in the NBA. No way. Besides that mistaken notion, the rest of what you wrote seems reasonable.

[elvis14]

The NBA has lots of interesting teams this season but it's worse for not having the GSW in the mix. A historically great team that plays a beautiful style of play led by the best shooter around, they have been the face of the NBA (along with LeBron) and deservedly so. They suck this year without Klay, Steph and with Draymond and Looney being hurt as well. Obviously losing Durant to free agency (injury had he resigned) changes them greatly but losing some of their solid role players has really hurt as well (AI, Livingston, etc). The team they are putting on the floor right now is a collection of role players who are worse than their previous role players (who were playing with all stars).

As for Draymond, I've considered him one of the most underrated players in the NBA for a long time (the ultimate glue guy) and this thread reenforces just that. The anti-Draymond posts claiming he's an overrated defender, etc. really cement the "he's underrated" opinion, thanks for that.

With the GSW dynasty on hold or most likely done, time to jump on the Pelicans bandwagon! BI is killing it, JJ is JJ, Frank is playing well. Jah will be a solid role player when healthy and Zion is going to explode shortly.

[JNort]

The NBA has lots of interesting teams this season but it's worse for not having the GSW in the mix. A historically great team that plays a beautiful style of play led by the best shooter around, they have been the face of the NBA (along with LeBron) and deservedly so. They suck this year without Klay, Steph and with Draymond and Looney being hurt as well. Obviously losing Durant to free agency (injury had he resigned) changes them greatly but losing some of their solid role players has really hurt as well (AI, Livingston, etc). The team they are putting on the floor right now is a collection of role players who are worse than their previous role players (who were playing with all stars).

As for Draymond, I've considered him one of the most underrated players in the NBA for a long time (the ultimate glue guy) and this thread reenforces just that. The anti-Draymond posts claiming he's an overrated defender, etc. really cement the "he's underrated" opinion, thanks for that.

With the GSW dynasty on hold or most likely done, time to jump on the Pelicans bandwagon! BI is killing it, JJ is JJ, Frank is playing well. Jah will be a solid role player when healthy and Zion is going to explode shortly.

How has Draymond been underrated? Perennially ranked as a top 20 player and always talked about as one of the 3 best defenders in the league. Some may underate him but I agree he is overrated. You cant build a team around him as the focal point, he should probably be ranked around the low 30s perhaps.

[bundabergdevil]

That Mavs game was pretty wild. Golden State had looked moderately competitive the past few games, and actually won last night in Memphis, but tonight on a second game of a road-trip back-to-back, Draymond Green sat out, and they got absolutely spanked. Luka ends with 35/10/11 and a +45 in 26 min(!?!?!). This year with Draymond in and out due to some nagging injuries has actually a pretty good testament to how good Draymond actually is. He's not putting up big numbers, but when he plays, they can be relatively competitive; when he sits, they often look like a complete trainwreck, especially defensively.

The MVP race is going to be SUPER interesting. Both Giannis and Harden are going to put up just absolute historically monstrous numbers in ways that are, I think, likely to turn some people off (as we saw with Harden last year). They both control the ball SO much, though it's more obvious with Harden, and the aesthetics of what they do aren't exactly what a lot of people/voters seem to want out of basketball (again, probably more obviously true with Harden). Should be fascinating to track throughout the year.

Agreed. I hear a lot of the commentators say the MVP race is partly about "narrative" and boy are there some good ones this year. On Luka, I found this article interesting from 538. It analyzes the best statistical year by age against VORP, PER, etc. Luka is putting up historically great numbers for his age, better than Lebron at the same age.

[elvis14]

How has Draymond been underrated? Perennially ranked as a top 20 player and always talked about as one of the 3 best defenders in the league. Some may underate him but I agree he is overrated. You cant build a team around him as the focal point, he should probably be ranked around the low 30s perhaps.

Asked and answered. Thanks. Have a good night.

[JNort]

Asked and answered. Thanks. Have a good night.

Anytime I guess?... and will do.

[bundabergdevil]

With Curry injured, Harden has missed more 3 points than any player has even attempted so far this season.

After all, He Who Must Not Be Named did great things – terrible, yes, but great.

[LasVegas]

The NBA has lots of interesting teams this season but it's worse for not having the GSW in the mix. A historically great team that plays a beautiful style of play led by the best shooter around, they have been the face of the NBA (along with LeBron) and deservedly so. They suck this year without Klay, Steph and with Draymond and Looney being hurt as well. Obviously losing Durant to free agency (injury had he resigned) changes them greatly but losing some of their solid role players has really hurt as well (AI, Livingston, etc). The team they are putting on the floor right now is a collection of role players who are worse than their previous role players (who were playing with all stars).

As for Draymond, I've considered him one of the most underrated players in the NBA for a long time (the ultimate glue guy) and this thread reenforces just that. The anti-Draymond posts claiming he's an overrated defender, etc. really cement the "he's underrated" opinion, thanks for that.

With the GSW dynasty on hold or most likely done, time to jump on the Pelicans bandwagon! BI is killing it, JJ is JJ, Frank is playing well. Jah will be a solid role player when healthy and Zion is going to explode shortly.

I’m willing to bet every single fan of a franchise not named the Warriors would agree the NBA is much better this year without GSW in the mix.

[Acymetric]

I’m willing to bet every single fan of a franchise not named the Warriors would agree the NBA is much better this year without GSW in the mix.

Really? I don't agree with that at all (and I'm not a Warriors fan). The NBA would​ be much better this year without Harden in the mix, but I digress...

[robed deity]

Really? I don't agree with that at all (and I'm not a Warriors fan). The NBA would​ be much better this year without Harden in the mix, but I digress...

Agreed. One of the most fun teams to watch ever. I am always surprised there are others don't feel this way.

[Steven43]

Really? I don't agree with that at all (and I'm not a Warriors fan). The NBA would​ be much better this year without Harden in the mix, but I digress...

Yep, I have thoroughly enjoyed the Warriors on-court performance the previous five seasons, though they are not my favorite team. And, yes, the NBA would be dramatically better without James Harden. I simply cannot stand the way this man plays basketball.

[Indoor66]

And, yes, the NBA would be dramatically better without James Harden. I simply cannot stand the way this man plays basketball.

Like most things, a little time will solve the problem.

[bundabergdevil]

I found this article from The Ringer interesting. It's about how the Warriors are chasing a (bad) record this season: largest win-loss differential from one season to the next. The article has a chart of the teams that have experienced the greatest drop-offs and the season/reason. Not surprisingly, the Bulls are on there following the loss of Jordan and Pippen. The Cavs are on there TWICE, both from LBJ's departures. A few others.

A part of me is shocked at just how fast the Warriors' fortunes have changed. If a few small things had gone a different way, I think they could have easily challenged the Bulls for greatest dynasty...maybe picking up 5 or 6 championships in 6 or 7 years. As it stands, they're 3/5 and didn't even get to the finals as many times in a row as LBJ teams did...

[Acymetric]

I found this article from The Ringer interesting. It's about how the Warriors are chasing a (bad) record this season: largest win-loss differential from one season to the next. The article has a chart of the teams that have experienced the greatest drop-offs and the season/reason. Not surprisingly, the Bulls are on there following the loss of Jordan and Pippen. The Cavs are on there TWICE, both from LBJ's departures. A few others.

A part of me is shocked at just how fast the Warriors' fortunes have changed. If a few small things had gone a different way, I think they could have easily challenged the Bulls for greatest dynasty...maybe picking up 5 or 6 championships in 6 or 7 years. As it stands, they're 3/5 and didn't even get to the finals as many times in a row as LBJ teams did...

I think going 3/5 puts them pretty solidly ahead of the LBJ squads, dynasty wise.