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  1. #1
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    Going down the rabbit hole again. (Matrix 4)

    A fourth Matrix is a go, with many central figures back, both in front and behind the camera.

    Question...

    In addition to Wachowski, the script was also written by Aleksandar Hemon and David Mitchell. Wachowski is also producing with Grant Hill. Sources say the film is eyed to begin production at the top of 2020.
    Is that Duke's Grant?

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...200907558.html
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    A fourth Matrix is a go, with many central figures back, both in front and behind the camera.

    Question...



    Is that Duke's Grant?

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...200907558.html
    There is another Grant Hill who produced Titanic it seems.

  3. #3
    Unless Matrix 4 is the highly sought after John Wick / Matrix crossover, I am skeptical.

    Other than a few scenes here and there, I prefer the Matrix as a standalone movie, ignoring the sequels (and Anamatrix).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuse View Post
    Unless Matrix 4 is the highly sought after John Wick / Matrix crossover, I am skeptical.

    Other than a few scenes here and there, I prefer the Matrix as a standalone movie, ignoring the sequels (and Anamatrix).
    There was only one Matrix, the sequels never happened, and nobody can convince me otherwise (although Animatrix ​was enjoyable).

  5. #5
    Ugh! Worst idea in the history of worst ideas. I think all the good will from the first movie has long since been cashed in.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    Ugh! Worst idea in the history of worst ideas. I think all the good will from the first movie has long since been cashed in.
    Exactly. After the two sequels, who is clamoring for more?

  7. #7
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    I never minded the two sequels; they weren't groundbreaking like the original, but they weren't the total cinematic suckitude that I find Episodes I - III to be in Star Wars.

    I thought the Animatrix was a nice bonus, too, and helped make more sense of how they got to the second movie.
    I'm curious to see what they do in four, especially knowing that two and three were so poorly received. They can work to avoid those pitfalls. Had they not filmed the third at the same time as the second, maybe they could gauged reactions and made it a better movie to end the trilogy. (But as I stated, I never loathed either of them.)
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I never minded the two sequels; they weren't groundbreaking like the original, but they weren't the total cinematic suckitude that I find Episodes I - III to be in Star Wars.

    I thought the Animatrix was a nice bonus, too, and helped make more sense of how they got to the second movie.
    I'm curious to see what they do in four, especially knowing that two and three were so poorly received. They can work to avoid those pitfalls. Had they not filmed the third at the same time as the second, maybe they could gauged reactions and made it a better movie to end the trilogy. (But as I stated, I never loathed either of them.)
    Two was alright, but I thought three was bad enough that it retroactively made #2 a bad movie as well.

  9. #9
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    Spoiler alert: Neo and Trinity both die at the end of the third movie.

    What gives? "Oh, the machines revived them or something..." Lame.

    I think the Matrix 2/3 and Star Wars I/II/III comparison is pretty apt. They had the occasional moment (maybe), but don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

    Also the two franchises are linked in my mind by the close release dates (1.5 months) of the Matrix and Phantom Menace back in '99. I saw them both within a couple weeks of each other, and the contrast was stunning.

  10. #10
    Just read that Lawrence Fishburne will not return as Morpheus, and that role will be recast. 🤔🤯

    Feels like a dealbreaker to me.
    At least the Oracle recast in 2&3 was due to an actress passing away.
    It was also a clever twist in how the movies explained the change.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuse View Post
    Just read that Lawrence Fishburne will not return as Morpheus, and that role will be recast. ����
    Just make it a different character then, don't have someone else play Morpheus.

    I can't even being to imagine a storyline that will work. Neo is dead (as is Trinity). If you brought them back in the Matrix (but not in the real world) they would just be programs, not thinking, feeling human beings.

    And let's be very clear about something... the Wachowskis (I know Lana is the only one working on Matrix 4, but still...) caught lightening in a bottle with The Matrix and they have not been able to come close to that level of achievement since. Look at their filmography since then.

    • Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions - very disappointing to fans. Though some tolerate Reloaded, Revolutions was a hot mess.
    • V For Vendetta - They wrote it and did not direct. I actually think the script is ok but the final product is a little too gimmicky. Generally disliked by fans and critics.
    • Speed Racer - A disaster.
    • Cloud Atlas - Now, this is their one success since The Matrix, in my mind (lots of folks disagree with me, this is a very divisive film). I really enjoyed the way the stories were told in overlapping fashion and several of the stories were really wonderful. But, it was a gimmick film and some of the stories were sorta weak on their own. The best segment of the film was directed by Tom Tykwer (the 1800s England segment featuring Ben Whishaw). In fairness, he also directed the worst segment (the one set in London in modern times with Jim Broadbent in the lead). The main Wachowski segments were the two set in the future which had moments that worked... and moments that didn't.
    • Jupiter Ascending - And you thought Speed Racer was a disaster?
    • Sense8 - Some folks really like this series. I never saw it. The fact that Netflix cancelled it after two seasons tells me it never really had that much success.


    So, we are talking about writer/directors who have about a 25% batting average for success... maybe 33%. The odds that they will do their one unquestioned homerun justice seems to be small.

    -Jason "I really, really hope I am wrong. I would love nothing more than a really satisfying new Matrix film" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsondevil View Post
    Spoiler alert: Neo and Trinity both die at the end of the third movie.

    What gives? "Oh, the machines revived them or something..." Lame.

    I think the Matrix 2/3 and Star Wars I/II/III comparison is pretty apt. They had the occasional moment (maybe), but don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

    Also the two franchises are linked in my mind by the close release dates (1.5 months) of the Matrix and Phantom Menace back in '99. I saw them both within a couple weeks of each other, and the contrast was stunning.
    Yeah, Trinity and Neo died at the end of Matrix Revolutions, and the war was over.

    But... it turns out we only THOUGHT those things happened. See, all that stuff... was inside ANOTHER matrix!

    So, Neo and Trinity they were both in pods the whole time.

    Each movie can unwind another level of recursion. Genius.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Just make it a different character then, don't have someone else play Morpheus.

    I can't even being to imagine a storyline that will work. Neo is dead (as is Trinity). If you brought them back in the Matrix (but not in the real world) they would just be programs, not thinking, feeling human beings.

    And let's be very clear about something... the Wachowskis (I know Lana is the only one working on Matrix 4, but still...) caught lightening in a bottle with The Matrix and they have not been able to come close to that level of achievement since. Look at their filmography since then.

    • Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions - very disappointing to fans. Though some tolerate Reloaded, Revolutions was a hot mess.
    • V For Vendetta - They wrote it and did not direct. I actually think the script is ok but the final product is a little too gimmicky. Generally disliked by fans and critics.
    • Speed Racer - A disaster.
    • Cloud Atlas - Now, this is their one success since The Matrix, in my mind (lots of folks disagree with me, this is a very divisive film). I really enjoyed the way the stories were told in overlapping fashion and several of the stories were really wonderful. But, it was a gimmick film and some of the stories were sorta weak on their own. The best segment of the film was directed by Tom Tykwer (the 1800s England segment featuring Ben Whishaw). In fairness, he also directed the worst segment (the one set in London in modern times with Jim Broadbent in the lead). The main Wachowski segments were the two set in the future which had moments that worked... and moments that didn't.
    • Jupiter Ascending - And you thought Speed Racer was a disaster?
    • Sense8 - Some folks really like this series. I never saw it. The fact that Netflix cancelled it after two seasons tells me it never really had that much success.


    So, we are talking about writer/directors who have about a 25% batting average for success... maybe 33%. The odds that they will do their one unquestioned homerun justice seems to be small.

    -Jason "I really, really hope I am wrong. I would love nothing more than a really satisfying new Matrix film" Evans
    I agree with your premise here, but have you never seen Bound? Very solid movie, plus some amazing visuals.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    Yeah, Trinity and Neo died at the end of Matrix Revolutions, and the war was over.

    But... it turns out we only THOUGHT those things happened. See, all that stuff... was inside ANOTHER matrix!

    So, Neo and Trinity they were both in pods the whole time.

    Each movie can unwind another level of recursion. Genius.
    There is a good deal of debate as to whether Neo died or not. Also a lot of discussion about Neo being somewhat of a messianic figure in the storyline. So, rising from the dead, if he in fact died, is probably not too far off from what we might see.
    “Coach said no 3s.” - Zion on The Block

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    Yeah, Trinity and Neo died at the end of Matrix Revolutions, and the war was over.

    But... it turns out we only THOUGHT those things happened. See, all that stuff... was inside ANOTHER matrix!

    So, Neo and Trinity they were both in pods the whole time.

    Each movie can unwind another level of recursion. Genius.
    Calling it now: it was all a dream, Neo and Trinity wake up in a higher level matrix and realize they don't actually know each other -- or themselves, really. They slowly get to know each other in a slapstick romantic comedy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    I agree with your premise here, but have you never seen Bound? Very solid movie, plus some amazing visuals.
    I have been meaning to see Bound for a long time. I was really just talking about their filmography after The Matrix.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

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