The "Daniel Jones deserves his own thread" thread

[dudog84]

Right now the league is filled with teams who have had starters injured and are largely SOL...so having Eli waiting around is hardly the worst thing...nothing is going to make the Giants good this year, they just have to try and improve and get Jones good experience...at least the OL is improved somewhat...

p.s. Terry Bradshaw says Eli should "pack his bags and go home," so obviously the right move is to do the opposite and stick around.

That's why they need to trade Eli for draft picks. His trade value will never be higher. Just last year he completed 66% of his passes and had a 92.4 rating.

If, God forbid, Daniel is hurt, it's not gonna matter much to the Giants this year. Build for the future.

[budwom]

That's why they need to trade Eli for draft picks. His trade value will never be higher. Just last year he completed 66% of his passes and had a 92.4 rating.

If, God forbid, Daniel is hurt, it's not gonna matter much to the Giants this year. Build for the future.

I just don't think anyone will give up anything more than a mid round draft pick for him, if that...do you?

NJ.com just roasted the Giants, noting they have $35 million tied up in players this year who won't (presumably) play for them...Beckham and Eli...
If there was a good time to trade him, it was before the season began, and even then I don't think he has much trade value, but I'm hardly tuned in...

[JasonEvans]

I just don't think anyone will give up anything more than a mid round draft pick for him, if that...do you?

Yeah, if the Giants could even get a 3rd round pick for Eli I bet they would jump at it. I think something like a 4th and a 5th may be more likely. There just isn't much of a trade market for a mid-level (at best) QB who is making $23+ mil this season and has no more than a year or two left in his career.

[dudog84]

I just don't think anyone will give up anything more than a mid round draft pick for him, if that...do you?

NJ.com just roasted the Giants, noting they have $35 million tied up in players this year who won't (presumably) play for them...Beckham and Eli...
If there was a good time to trade him, it was before the season began, and even then I don't think he has much trade value, but I'm hardly tuned in...

I'm not necessarily tuned in either. But we both know the QB is the prime position on the field. If a team has a strong defense and other strengths on offense, but just lost their starter for most or all of the season (or think their current guy is the weak link on a strong team), they could very well want Eli. Windows to win in the NFL come and go, most will do about anything if they think they've got a good shot this year and just need a key piece.

After starting 0-2 and losing Big Ben, the Steelers season was most probably toast. After all, they didn't even make the playoffs last year with a career year from Ben and Antonio Brown in the lineup. And then this week they give up next year's first round pick for a safety. A SAFETY! But then again I think the Steelers have lost their minds in the last 5 years, which is why I'm not a fan anymore.

[dudog84]

Not sure why everyone thinks Eli is so bad. I'll admit I don't watch the Giants. But last year his rating was 92.4. Big Ben's was 96.5. If a healthy Ben was available, what do you think a team would give up for him?

I'm far from an expert on what that rating formula entails (maybe 4 points is a big difference). But it must mean something, right? I'm willing to be educated...just as long as it's not your personal "eye test". Although anyone is welcome to their opinion, of course. I just have more faith in someone's opinion when they have something to back it up (like explain the rating is garbage).

[uh_no]

Not sure why everyone thinks Eli is so bad. I'll admit I don't watch the Giants. But last year his rating was 92.4. Big Ben's was 96.5. If a healthy Ben was available, what do you think a team would give up for him?

I'm far from an expert on what that rating formula entails (maybe 4 points is a big difference). But it must mean something, right? I'm willing to be educated...just as long as it's not your personal "eye test". Although anyone is welcome to their opinion, of course. I just have more faith in someone's opinion when they have something to back it up (like explain the rating is garbage).

big ben isn't a good benchmark anymore. that 96.5 was good for 15th in the league, and Eli's for 21st. That's why everyone thinks big ben isi bad.

[Acymetric]

Yeah, if the Giants could even get a 3rd round pick for Eli I bet they would jump at it. I think something like a 4th and a 5th may be more likely. There just isn't much of a trade market for a mid-level (at best) QB who is making $23+ mil this season and has no more than a year or two left in his career.

I'm pretty sure one of the statements either from Eli or his Agent suggested that he isn't interested in playing for another team. Since he has a no-trade clause in his contract, that means the Giants would be unable to trade him (and even without the no-trade clause he could just retire). Agree that a 4th or 5th round pick is probably best case if Eli were ​interested in a trade, and I'm not sure the optics of trading Eli is worth that small amount of draft capital.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Not sure why everyone thinks Eli is so bad. I'll admit I don't watch the Giants. But last year his rating was 92.4. Big Ben's was 96.5. If a healthy Ben was available, what do you think a team would give up for him?

I'm far from an expert on what that rating formula entails (maybe 4 points is a big difference). But it must mean something, right? I'm willing to be educated...just as long as it's not your personal "eye test". Although anyone is welcome to their opinion, of course. I just have more faith in someone's opinion when they have something to back it up (like explain the rating is garbage).

As one former defensive player said this week on ESPN, they never feared Eil. No one ever did. Big Ben is feared, or was feared. The reason Super Bowl rings is a misleading measurement for QBs is that in Eli's case, great wide receivers and great defenses were with him. Eli rarely, if ever, gave anyone heartburn in game planning him. It was game planning the Giant's pass rush that did.

And yeah, 4 plus points is a full half a grade difference...though that doesn't really tell the story.

[Blue in the Face]

I'm pretty sure one of the statements either from Eli or his Agent suggested that he isn't interested in playing for another team. Since he has a no-trade clause in his contract, that means the Giants would be unable to trade him (and even without the no-trade clause he could just retire). Agree that a 4th or 5th round pick is probably best case if Eli were ​interested in a trade, and I'm not sure the optics of trading Eli is worth that small amount of draft capital.

I've assumed the talk about refusing a trade is just posturing. I assume Eli is still confident in his abilities, and if a contending team in need of a QB wanted him, he'd like the opportunity to bring a team to the post-season. Maybe not, who knows. But I agree that any offer would be a pretty low draft pick, and the team would likely not be very anxious to do that.

[chris13]

The Giants handling of Manning has been a mess, but it has its complications. On one hand, there are those that still thought Manning had a little something left in the tank but was hampered by an awful offensive line. The offensive line was a disaster, and personally, I think it had a lot to do with Manning's recent play. However, management has rebuilt the offensive line the last two years and no longer should be used to justify his performances.

Manning also has a lot of good will built up from the two Super Bowl runs. About 2-3 years ago, the prior coach, Ben McAdoo, who was a disaster with the media and fans, sat Manning to play Geno Smith (that wasn't technically what happened, but what in essence happened). The fan base exploded. Ownership, who signed off on the move, was caught completely off guard by the fan reaction. Truthfully, if they were sitting Manning to play their then 3rd round pick, Davis Webb, the fans wouldn't have reacted that way. People may have understood taking a look at your young QB to see what you have at the end of another lost season. But everyone in New York knew what kind of disaster Geno Smith was from his days with the Jets, and that he would never be the heir apparent. Plus, the way McAdoo handled the switch was just a nightmare. That PR nightmare lasted one game, and they went back to Manning (and fired the coach). I think this episode so shell shocked ownership, that they were hesitant to make a QB change so quickly (which was an overreaction). Many thought they should have drafted one of the young QBs in the 2018 NFL draft. They took Barkley (who is a stud). In any case, after getting Barkley, they resigned OBJ to an extension before the 2018 season and tried to improve their offensive line, so many thought Manning would play better in 2018. Giants still stunk.

So, for 2019, with no QB ready to take over, they drafted DJ. Their plan for 2019 was for Manning to play the whole year, letting DJ learn, and then likely let him take over in 2020 (similar to what the Chiefs did with Pat Mahomes). However, once DJ had his tremendous preseason, the talk began to focus on when DJ would take over this year. At that point, local fans and media felt like unless Manning was leading the Giants to the playoffs, they would probably make a change this year and just debated when. Most thought it might happen about 10 games into the season. Why the switch now? I just think their philosophy changed. They are 0-2 and they don't look good offensively, so they might as well put DJ in and let him learn on the job. He has a stud running back, and although their receivers are not top notch, they have a good tight end in Engram, and the line has improved a bit.

Personally, I think DJ's preseason play just changed the whole dynamic. When he was drafted, the fans booed, as we know. Management obviously liked him, but I don't even think they thought he would play as well as he did preseason. DJ's preseason play turned the public opinion around, and his elevation became a matter of time once the Giants continued to lose and look weak offensively. They need a change and a spark. While you would prefer not to have a $20+ million back-up quarterback, this season now for the Giants is really about DJ's development. If they go 3-13 but he evolves into looking like their QB of the future, it becomes a successful season for them (which also helps the coach defend his record). Manning will be a good teammate and help DJ through the season, which will actually be worth it for the Giants and DJ. You can't put a price tag on that.

Thank you for this complete and spork worthy context. If Eli really gets on board with trying to help Jones, that is valuable. The difference between then and now it seems is that the fan base is more accepting of the fact that Eli is done, AND there is some evidence to support an optimistic case for Jones, which was not the case with Geno Smith. I have a friend whose son played on the Duke team with DJ and my friend raved about Jones' character and leadership.

I think of the George Young Giants as a one of the NFL's better run franchises from 1980 or so until the 2011 Super Bowl. They seem to have lost their way a little bit post Tom Coughlin.

[Acymetric]

As one former defensive player said this week on ESPN, they never feared Eil. No one ever did. Big Ben is feared, or was feared. The reason Super Bowl rings is a misleading measurement for QBs is that in Eli's case, great wide receivers and great defenses were with him. Eli rarely, if ever, gave anyone heartburn in game planning him. It was game planning the Giant's pass rush that did.

And yeah, 4 plus points is a full half a grade difference...though that doesn't really tell the story.

I'm going to argue here, the Giants D in 2011 was not especially good (they were good at getting to the quarterback, but bad at pretty much everything else including preventing the opposing team from scoring despite the sacks). Football Outsiders has that defense in the bottom half of the NFL for that season. I'll grant that Nicks (pre-injury), Cruz, and Mario Manningham was a pretty strong recieving corps but someone had to get them the ball. We've seen plenty of elite receivers struggle when playing with bad QBs.

2007 had a better defense (again with QB pressure and forcing TOs), but overall was still probably outside the top 8. The receivers were fine, but Plaxico Burress wasn't that good (and 3 of Burress 5 best seasons were when he was catching balls for Manning after coming off a rather down year with the Steelers, so you could just about as easily attribute that success to Manning as to Burress).

[uh_no]

I'm going to argue here, the Giants D in 2011 was not especially good (they were good at getting to the quarterback, but bad at pretty much everything else including preventing the opposing team from scoring despite the sacks). Football Outsiders has that defense in the bottom half of the NFL for that season. I'll grant that Nicks (pre-injury), Cruz, and Mario Manningham was a pretty strong recieving corps but someone had to get them the ball. We've seen plenty of elite receivers struggle when playing with bad QBs.

2007 had a better defense (again with QB pressure and forcing TOs), but overall was still probably outside the top 8. The receivers were fine, but Plaxico Burress wasn't that good (and 3 of Burress 5 best seasons were when he was catching balls for Manning after coming off a rather down year with the Steelers, so you could just about as easily attribute that success to Manning as to Burress).

their defense played better in the playoffs than the regular season.

[BD80]

Yeah, if the Giants could even get a 3rd round pick for Eli I bet they would jump at it. I think something like a 4th and a 5th may be more likely. There just isn't much of a trade market for a mid-level (at best) QB who is making $23+ mil this season and has no more than a year or two left in his career.

How much has already been paid? He could actually be a bargain if the Giants paid him up front.

...
After starting 0-2 and losing Big Ben, the Steelers season was most probably toast. After all, they didn't even make the playoffs last year with a career year from Ben and Antonio Brown in the lineup. And then this week they give up next year's first round pick for a safety. A SAFETY! But then again I think the Steelers have lost their minds in the last 5 years, which is why I'm not a fan anymore.

The Steelers have 6 Super Bowl Wins, all with All-Pro Safeties: Donnie Shell (HOF), then Troy Polumanu.

They had some great success with Rod Woodson, another All-Pro.

Fitzgerald is a guy they coveted last year. This is very much like the trade up to get Devon Bush, which looks like it will be a tremendous move. We give up a first round pick NEXT YEAR for a position of need, for a guy just one year into his rookie contract that has already proven his value at the #11 pick last year. Solid locker room guy, another leader for the defense, Nick Saban's favorite player. Great move.

[rsvman]

their defense played better in the playoffs than the regular season.

They did EVERYTHING better in the playoffs than in the regular season. I'm not going to look it up, but definitely in one of their two Super Bowl victories their regular season was essentially just barely enough to get them into the playoffs. The Redskins had beaten them both home and away that year, and wasn't even a playoff team.

[dudog84]

their defense played better in the playoffs than the regular season.

So did Eli. Rating jumped 10 points, 1,200+ yards, 9 TDs, 1 INT. But then that's how teams win Super Bowls.

How much has already been paid? He could actually be a bargain if the Giants paid him up front.



The Steelers have 6 Super Bowl Wins, all with All-Pro Safeties: Donnie Shell (HOF), then Troy Polumanu.

They had some great success with Rod Woodson, another All-Pro.

Fitzgerald is a guy they coveted last year. This is very much like the trade up to get Devon Bush, which looks like it will be a tremendous move. We give up a first round pick NEXT YEAR for a position of need, for a guy just one year into his rookie contract that has already proven his value at the #11 pick last year. Solid locker room guy, another leader for the defense, Nick Saban's favorite player. Great move.

I almost added "If he turns into the 2nd coming of Polamalu, then alright".

P.S. I was a big Donnie Shell fan, but I don't believe he got into the Hall of Fame. Canton probably felt like they had enough Steelers from the 70s. He should have.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'm going to argue here, the Giants D in 2011 was not especially good (they were good at getting to the quarterback, but bad at pretty much everything else including preventing the opposing team from scoring despite the sacks). Football Outsiders has that defense in the bottom half of the NFL for that season. I'll grant that Nicks (pre-injury), Cruz, and Mario Manningham was a pretty strong recieving corps but someone had to get them the ball. We've seen plenty of elite receivers struggle when playing with bad QBs.

2007 had a better defense (again with QB pressure and forcing TOs), but overall was still probably outside the top 8. The receivers were fine, but Plaxico Burress wasn't that good (and 3 of Burress 5 best seasons were when he was catching balls for Manning after coming off a rather down year with the Steelers, so you could just about as easily attribute that success to Manning as to Burress).

How were those defenses in the playoffs? Both of these Giant teams were pretty mediocre in the regular season all the way around. The Giants barely averaged 20 points in the entire playoffs when they won 08 Super Bowl. When you beat Tom Brady and the Patriots 17-14, it was because of your defense. You beat them 37-34, then we can talk quarterback.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics...nothing changes that Eli was never feared, whereas dozens and dozens of QBs have been feared consistently by defenses.

[Blue in the Face]

How much has already been paid? He could actually be a bargain if the Giants paid him up front.

His salary is $11.5, so about $10MM left.

[duke74]

Nice article from the NY Post as D.J. takes the helm. Teammates behind him.

https://nypost.com/2019/09/19/daniel...pasteboard_app

[Reilly]

Daniel's all set with a former Duke athlete girlfriend and a fine yellow lab:

https://nypost.com/2019/09/18/meet-e...-daniel-jones/

A friend says the key to happiness is a good gal and a great dog (w/ the dog being more important) ...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Love that Jone's had the best selling jersey this week in the entire NFL...hasn't played a single official play. Nothing like playing in the league's biggest market!