The "Daniel Jones deserves his own thread" thread

[cato]

Which is why, when Daniel is not resigned you may hear "we just needed some new faces" types of comments coming from the Giants f.o. Daniel unfortunately won't be resigned by the Giants and they will still stink next year.

There may be a typo above.

[budwom]

"Hey Daniel, there's some guy saying he's from the Lions is on the phone. Should I take a message?"

stick with the Tigers, weezie! (no, don't take that call). I could see some other team(s) finding value in him, from what I've seen in the league this year, and with the annual copious injuries.

[CameronBlue]

stick with the Tigers, weezie! (no, don't take that call). I could see some other team(s) finding value in him, from what I've seen in the league this year, and with the annual copious injuries.

Weezie with the Hot Take. Tune in for her Stone Cold Locks of the week!

[jafarr1]

Which is why, when Daniel is not resigned you may hear "we just needed some new faces" types of comments coming from the Giants f.o. Daniel unfortunately won't be resigned by the Giants and they will still stink next year.

“We just need some new faces” will certainly be a thing - because they do. The previous GM left the Giants in a sad state. The Giants need at least three OLs, possibly all three WRs, and several defensive players as well. But man, trying to replace half your starters plus replace your QB is a tough ask for one offseason without trading away most of your future draft picks.

As somebody else astutely pointed out earlier in the thread, you replace / upgrade your QB after the other pieces are in place. So, the smart thing to do would be to solve as many of those other problems in year one and then - if you indeed want to replace Jones - you do that in year two along with the rest of the fixes. But politics, fan pressure and other external influences can leave teams making the wrong move, and right or wrong, the QB is almost always blamed when a team loses.

[HayYou]

It's incredibly difficult to evaluate a QB on a bad team. Trevor Lawrence is by most accounts a very good QB with big potential. Is he "good enough" to swing the future of the Jags? Stafford languished on the Lions for over a decade, dwelling in the cellar of the NFC North before getting his real shot.

I don't disagree with your statement that teams will be eager to grab DJ. Just noting that good players in bad organizations can stew for a long time.

Trevor Lawrence has played very well for a team with a couple of big wins. It was all coaching last year. Trevor would have had more success than DJ has had on the NYG if TL had been on NYG instead of DJ. Not playoffs, but a few more wins. Guys like Mahomes or Rodgers would have won a few more games still than that, and might have sneaked into the playoffs in a horrific NFC East. Maybe. But they'd have been blown out on the road in week 1 of the playoffs had they gotten that far.

Because TL and Mahomes and Rodgers are just better QBs than DJ. Lots of QBs who were never one of the best 4 QBs in the league have won Superbowls. And a weakness amongst those guys like Mahomes and Rodgers and (soon) Trevor is that they are super expensive. They have to be great so that they can overcome the roster weaknesses ultimately created by the cost of paying a superstar QB like he's a superstar QB.

DJ's true value will be just that. Value. He's probably just good enough to game manage his way to a 5ish year SB window. Provided the team around him is very good. But to maintain that overall roster quality you just cannot play a QB big money unless he's good enough to overcome the weaknesses of a capped out roster that has to shed some talent.

DJ probably isn't good enough to overcome serious deficiencies a la Peyton or Aaron or Mahomes. But DJ doesn't have to be that good. By earning less money the rest of the roster will be stronger.

DJ's always been pretty good about not throwing too many interceptions. His real bugaboo, and it was a horrendous one, is fumbles. When a QB loses a fumble he's often behind the rest of the team meaning the defense is more likely to recover and get some type of return. Interceptions are down field plays, and are the cost of doing business if you want to throw the ball towards a bunch of 6-1 fast twitch athletic freaks. But fumbles are disasters for QBs. And DJ did that a bunch. But he got better last year, and has been great this year. So a good team with QB issues might jump on him. Good teams like that don't typically have high draft picks, and the next few years are dicey at QB. Maybe until Ewars from UT is eligible next year along with USC's Caleb Williams (likely number 1). I have concerns about Stroud (his team is head and shoulders more talented than their opponents until they get stomped out by an SEC team, and Stroud's got 3-4 WRs who'd be WR2 or better on NFL teams), Bryce Young (he's so small and also has a crazy group of talent around him). QBs likely to be available in the mid to late first round....Meh. They look great getting off the bus but they are old and haven't lived up to expectations. They might be better than DJ long term, but a quality team might prefer to get an experienced QB (aka DJ) for cheap and use that mid-ish first round pick on a DB. Rather than spend another few years developing a QB while the current roster with SB quality ages out or gets too expensive to maintain. The QBs at UF and UK are examples of this. Richardson at UF is big and fast and has a cannon arm. Who makes a ton of mistakes (he should return to UF for one more year unless he just takes off this year). The UK QB has an even bigger arm and is a little less mobile/athletic than Richardson. But he's pretty old and doesn't always make great decisions. He could be another Josh Allen. Richardson at UF might be a Mahomes or Herbert type of player.

You know, in 3-5 years. Maybe. AKA after a team that currently has a good roster has seen that roster deteriorate through time and salary cap decisions. DJ could join a quality roster next year, on a livable salary, and get that team to the playoffs in year 1. By year 2 they might be aiming to win it all, and keep doing so for another 3-5 years after that, again, because DJ will be cheap (while still making absurd amounts of money)

DJ is getting good advice along with probably being a good person. He's keeping his mouth shut and doing the work. He just needs to stay healthy.

I guarantee, and I mean GUARANTEE that after the game last night some FB decision makers on good teams were texting their high level coworkers about how good a fit DJ would be. At least, that he'd be worth a look in training camp.

[HayYou]

“We just need some new faces” will certainly be a thing - because they do. The previous GM left the Giants in a sad state. The Giants need at least three OLs, possibly all three WRs, and several defensive players as well. But man, trying to replace half your starters plus replace your QB is a tough ask for one offseason without trading away most of your future draft picks.

As somebody else astutely pointed out earlier in the thread, you replace / upgrade your QB after the other pieces are in place. So, the smart thing to do would be to solve as many of those other problems in year one and then - if you indeed want to replace Jones - you do that in year two along with the rest of the fixes. But politics, fan pressure and other external influences can leave teams making the wrong move, and right or wrong, the QB is almost always blamed when a team loses.

I mean, look at the last few dynasties in the NFL. Starting with Peyton, the team had an OL and a WR when they drafted him. Next year they added Edge James at RB. Then, even with a spotty defense, they were in serious SB contention until Peyton's injury. The Pats lucked into Brady in the late stages of the draft. They were a playoff team before he got there. Ditto Aaron Rodgers. Ditto Mahomes. Take any of those QBs off their teams, and all of them would have been pretty good the year after drafting the QB. Indy without Peyt would have been worse, but they'd wouldn't have been the worst team drafting number 1 again.

The NYG might be persuaded to part with DJ for a second or third round pick. But I'd bet that other teams will dare the NYG to franchise him and pay him 35 million (or more) and then try to sell season tickets.

[dukelifer]

Trevor Lawrence has played very well for a team with a couple of big wins. It was all coaching last year. Trevor would have had more success than DJ has had on the NYG if TL had been on NYG instead of DJ. Not playoffs, but a few more wins. Guys like Mahomes or Rodgers would have won a few more games still than that, and might have sneaked into the playoffs in a horrific NFC East. Maybe. But they'd have been blown out on the road in week 1 of the playoffs had they gotten that far.

Because TL and Mahomes and Rodgers are just better QBs than DJ. Lots of QBs who were never one of the best 4 QBs in the league have won Superbowls. And a weakness amongst those guys like Mahomes and Rodgers and (soon) Trevor is that they are super expensive. They have to be great so that they can overcome the roster weaknesses ultimately created by the cost of paying a superstar QB like he's a superstar QB.

DJ's true value will be just that. Value. He's probably just good enough to game manage his way to a 5ish year SB window. Provided the team around him is very good. But to maintain that overall roster quality you just cannot play a QB big money unless he's good enough to overcome the weaknesses of a capped out roster that has to shed some talent.

DJ probably isn't good enough to overcome serious deficiencies a la Peyton or Aaron or Mahomes. But DJ doesn't have to be that good. By earning less money the rest of the roster will be stronger.

DJ's always been pretty good about not throwing too many interceptions. His real bugaboo, and it was a horrendous one, is fumbles. When a QB loses a fumble he's often behind the rest of the team meaning the defense is more likely to recover and get some type of return. Interceptions are down field plays, and are the cost of doing business if you want to throw the ball towards a bunch of 6-1 fast twitch athletic freaks. But fumbles are disasters for QBs. And DJ did that a bunch. But he got better last year, and has been great this year. So a good team with QB issues might jump on him. Good teams like that don't typically have high draft picks, and the next few years are dicey at QB. Maybe until Ewars from UT is eligible next year along with USC's Caleb Williams (likely number 1). I have concerns about Stroud (his team is head and shoulders more talented than their opponents until they get stomped out by an SEC team, and Stroud's got 3-4 WRs who'd be WR2 or better on NFL teams), Bryce Young (he's so small and also has a crazy group of talent around him). QBs likely to be available in the mid to late first round...Meh. They look great getting off the bus but they are old and haven't lived up to expectations. They might be better than DJ long term, but a quality team might prefer to get an experienced QB (aka DJ) for cheap and use that mid-ish first round pick on a DB. Rather than spend another few years developing a QB while the current roster with SB quality ages out or gets too expensive to maintain. The QBs at UF and UK are examples of this. Richardson at UF is big and fast and has a cannon arm. Who makes a ton of mistakes (he should return to UF for one more year unless he just takes off this year). The UK QB has an even bigger arm and is a little less mobile/athletic than Richardson. But he's pretty old and doesn't always make great decisions. He could be another Josh Allen. Richardson at UF might be a Mahomes or Herbert type of player.

You know, in 3-5 years. Maybe. AKA after a team that currently has a good roster has seen that roster deteriorate through time and salary cap decisions. DJ could join a quality roster next year, on a livable salary, and get that team to the playoffs in year 1. By year 2 they might be aiming to win it all, and keep doing so for another 3-5 years after that, again, because DJ will be cheap (while still making absurd amounts of money)

DJ is getting good advice along with probably being a good person. He's keeping his mouth shut and doing the work. He just needs to stay healthy.

I guarantee, and I mean GUARANTEE that after the game last night some FB decision makers on good teams were texting their high level coworkers about how good a fit DJ would be. At least, that he'd be worth a look in training camp.

Jones is taking a beating. Those guys would have had to survive the hits. Jones is a big strong kid. But he is getting hammered.

[JetpackJesus]

The alternative broadcast with Eli and Peyton Manning is just great. Every now and again there’s real, astute football analysis. But mostly it’s banter, and the Mannings have no idea how to deal with Tracy Morgan. Brilliant!

It shouldn't be the alternative MNF broadcast. It should be the only MNF broadcast.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

It shouldn't be the alternative MNF broadcast. It should be the only MNF broadcast.

I have not watched them yet but I find it amazing that ESPN is paying a small fortune to the ESPN team when it is the alternative team that gets all of the buzz. As usual, I think the execs at ESPN (and many of the other networks) are dramatically overthinking things and overpaying. You have to pay these announcers, especially the ex-players who are already wealthy, enough to make it worth their while to show up, but the amount that the networks threw at some of the lead announcers this off-season (including Brady) is ridiculous - I am more aware of announcers than most people but the marginal benefit of them vs. someone else is not that great.

[Bob Green]

I have not watched them yet but I find it amazing that ESPN is paying a small fortune to the ESPN team when it is the alternative team that gets all of the buzz. As usual, I think the execs at ESPN (and many of the other networks) are dramatically overthinking things and overpaying. You have to pay these announcers, especially the ex-players who are already wealthy, enough to make it worth their while to show up, but the amount that the networks threw at some of the lead announcers this off-season (including Brady) is ridiculous - I am more aware of announcers than most people but the marginal benefit of them vs. someone else is not that great.

I frequently watch sports with the sound turned down low, not off but low, because it facilitates ignoring the announcers but allows me to hear when I want to hear.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It is interesting. For a QB, fumbles speak louder than interceptions. An INT could be a poor route, bad communication, an optimistic or desperate pass. A fumble is weakness. One is more easily forgiven.

[duke74]

I cringed today before going to the NY Post web page...but the NYP coverage today was not at all hard on DJ.

They were big Danny Dimes fans at first, then went cold on him...but several writers were defending him today a bit. For the same reasons we are...poor line...no talent at WR. Apparently the TV crew last night did the same (I did not see it, though many here did)

Here’s one supportive article.

https://nypost.com/2022/09/27/giants...pasteboard_app

[HayYou]

It is interesting. For a QB, fumbles speak louder than interceptions. An INT could be a poor route, bad communication, an optimistic or desperate pass. A fumble is weakness. One is more easily forgiven.

Even if it is all QB, interceptions aren't that devastating. So long as it is a down field throw. If you throw a shallow pass and the DB jumps it, it is six points the other way. But that is rare even among interceptions. Most take place down field where there are tons of offensive players, turned defense after the pick, to tackle a DB or LB that has made the pick. Most LBs haven't seriously carried a ball since HS and are more focused on not fumbling it back than really getting down field. And DBs are hype when the first pick it off down field, but that enthusiasm is tempered a few parts of a second later when they realize that a bunch of enraged 300+lb OL (and that one shrimp of a OG who is only 285 but is on the field because he has rage issues and BPD) are bearing down on them while a bunch of DL's run around in circles trying not to hold anyone or block anyone in the back. And the other DBs don't like to tackle, much less block.

In other words, odds are that an interception won't be much worse than a shanked punt or poor punt coverage play. Which is fairly common.

When QBs fumble usually they are behind all their teammates. QB fumbles often turn into big returns (only mitigated by the fact that DLs are quickly run down as they try to run while holding a football in two taped and gloved hands and padded arms. DLs NEVER EVER EVER practice running with a FB. As such, they hunch over the ball to avoid fumbling, which isn't conducive to speed. Even so, they can get a bunch of yards before they're run down. Or, that QB fumble can turn into a touchdown the other way if it on the wrong side of the team's own 40 yard line. Even so, a QB fumble can frequently end up with the other team in the red zone running a slant for a TD before the defense has really settled in.

A QB fumble is like a blocked punt, and those are incredibly rare.

When DBs get a pick six, usually they either guess right (and they'll guess wrong enough that OCs will take those odds) or they make a great play and follow it with a great run back. When a DL or LB gets a QB to fumble and it turns into a touchdown it just means that no offensive players were close enough to catch his slow arse before he got to the endzone. Sometimes he's far enough down field before the rest of the O knows what has happened.

Best case with a QB fumble is that it is recovered by the OL who blew his assignment and was therefore readily available to recover the ball. All that has happened is the team has wasted a down and lost 7-10 yards, essentially ending that offensive series.

Plus, FBs are weird shaped. Throwing them accurately is hard. Holding onto a ball is far easier in comparison, especially given all the rules in place to protect QBs today.

[Steven43]

Wrong thread, I know, but I couldn’t find a general NFL thread.

Anyway, it looks like Tua just suffered a seizure after a vicious tackle. He needs Prednisone immediately.

[Gooch]

Wrong thread, I know, but I couldn’t find a general NFL thread.

Anyway, it looks like Tua just suffered a seizure after a vicious tackle. He needs Prednisone immediately.

That was horrible to watch. I’m finding it harder and harder to watch football at all.

[Steven43]

That was horrible to watch. I’m finding it harder and harder to watch football at all.

Yeah, that was rough.

[budwom]

Not that many sports routinely maim their star players, but football sure does. The league doesn't care, they have the biggest farm system in all of sports and just plug in new guys when their predecessors get whacked.

[dukelifer]

Not that many sports routinely maim their star players, but football sure does. The league doesn't care, they have the biggest farm system in all of sports and just plug in new guys when their predecessors get whacked.

The whole concept of discussing which team will win the Super Bowl early in the season is silly. It all comes down to which players are still standing at season’s end. Daniel Jones is getting hammered and at some point he will get injured.

[bundabergdevil]

The whole concept of discussing which team will win the Super Bowl early in the season is silly. It all comes down to which players are still standing at season’s end. Daniel Jones is getting hammered and at some point he will get injured.

You appear to be unfamiliar with sports radio and tv.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Wrong thread, I know, but I couldn’t find a general NFL thread.

Anyway, it looks like Tua just suffered a seizure after a vicious tackle. He needs Prednisone immediately.

It's here.
https://forums.dukebasketballreport...31#post1520531