All of this and also what everyone else has already said. I won't comment on his stances and comments that stray too close too infraction territory as I'm sure mods don't like where this conversation could easily lead. However I think that regardless of his stances he has handled nearly everything poorly if he really did want to make a difference. Instead of kneeling during anthems why not use your platform to inform others in the media and use your influence to stage sit-ins or protests outside of your local government and police headquarters? Organize meetings or something.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking
We are probably just gonna have to disagree on that then. He is one of the most hated people in the US right now and has done more harm than good for what he supposedly wants to achieve. LeBron uses his platform very well on the other hand. I think he could do more by going and arranging meeting with people who can make change. CK brought some attention to issues but he did much more harm than good by "insulting" 10s of thousands (at a minimum) of people.
Last edited by JNort; 11-20-2019 at 03:48 AM. Reason: Word choice.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking
You can't just toss something like that out there without backing it up with some facts. Kaepernick might be disliked among older, white communities but that is decidedly not the case for minority communities or younger Americans. Here is a poll that finds that while 6 in 10 Americans think athletes should stand during the national athlete, only 28% of African Americans share that belief and less than half (44%) of people 18-29 feel that standing should be required.
I tried to find favorable/unfavorable splits on Kaepernick, but was unsuccessful. I recall a few years ago seeing that some people who think athletes should stand for the anthem still felt it was Kap's right to kneel if he wanted too, so I am betting his approval numbers are better than the "should stand" numbers. In other words, it is a pretty safe assumption that Kap's national approval rating is in the 50% kind of range, perhaps a bit higher. Sure, he has vocal detractors who feel strongly that he is disrespecting the military or police or something like that, but "one of the most hated people in the US" seems like quite a bit of a stretch.
I would need to see a lot of evidence to convince me that Kaepernick is more hated than millionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein or #MeToo poster child Harvey Weinstein. Is Kap more hated than Charlie Manson? What about Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong Un? Is this just people Americans hate or people who are in America who are hated? I bet I can name at least 30 politicians (on both sides of the aisle) who would have far worse favorability ratings than Kap.
I do not want us to get into a debate about Kap's protests and the value of them, as that would quite clearly violate the public policy ban on the DBR. But I just could not allow your statement about him being one of the most hated to sit there, unchallenged, like it was the truth. It may be that among the community you associate with he is hated... I don't know the color of your skin, your age, where you live, or other facts that could lend some perspective on what you and the folks you associate with think about knelling... but, as I have shown with polling facts, there are tens of millions of Americans who find nothing wrong with Kap's form of protest.
-Jason "I hope this does not devolve into a policy debate... sorry if I contributed to that" Evans
Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?
Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!
Well for starters I guess I should say I think some have read more into what I said than what was there as evidenced by your response and a few others. I'm not discussing approval ratings on what he did/does but his overall image and how it has affected the issues at large. The other issue might be what we perceive as among the most hated. In a country of 300 million what % counts as significant for being among the most hated? Even if he was the 300 most hated person that still puts him in the bottom .0001% of the population. To me, that is significant and I would be willing to bet (even though we don't seem to have the evidence right now) he ranks worse than 300th.
I also didn't say he was the most hated but one of them, even if he isn't at the top. I wasn't including politicians because they are naturally widely hated due to the nature of their work and just party loyalties. I think it's telling that the only people who might rank more hated are your big time criminals and politicians.
But regarding what you said about people agreeing/disagreeing with him:
From Quinnipiac
54% Disapprove compared to 38% approval for the kneeling. https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2387
From Seton Hall
Americans disapprove by nearly 2 to 1 on CK protest but 4 to 1 support his right to do so.
and
Overall 47% disapprove of Kaepernick's actions, with 27% approving. https://www.shu.edu/news/sports-poll...kaepernick.cfm
From E-Poll marketing research
36% of NFL fans voted "dislike a lot" for CK. I unfortunately cant find the original poll to get the full numbers to include dislike, like, like a lot, and no opinion but there are several articles from popular media outlets with limited information.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...%3fid=42263215
So even if we only look at the 36% of NFL fans "dislike him a lot" and ignore the category of "dislike" and using the lower number of people who claim to be nfl fans you come out to around 57 million people who dislike him a lot.
https://www.reference.com/sports-act...650cc48aba3841
Me personally? I don't mind athletes speaking out and I don't mind the kneeling. I do care that he has personally handled (imo of course) this in a way that has caused so many people to react negatively when he could have handled it in a way to rally more positive support and actually make a change. Now those of us who do want change have a harder road ahead because he has casued people to double down against what he stands for (or in this case kneels for).
So for the record please stop leaving negative feedback (you know who you are) just because you project what some people think about the situation on to me. My only 2 claims are he is hated by a bunch of people and that I think he could have handled it better.
Last edited by JNort; 11-21-2019 at 02:26 AM.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking
Sorry for my self quote here but I didnt get the edit off in time.
I agree with Jason that I hope this doesn't devolve into a policy debate. My inbox is welcome to any and all who would like to discuss this deeper but I too apologize if my post has contributed to a path of policy talk. I just ask that you read my final thoughts in the above self quote and not project others opinions on to me nor read into what I didn't ever say.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking
Joke post:
skins @ lion 11/28/19 aka "The Tank Bowl"
Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'
Ok, wait, really? Are you actually talking about some kind of hatred ranking that includes the entire general population? Can I just point out that the American people have no opinion on well over 99.99% of the rest of the country. I mean, lets say you had some kind of opinion on a million people (that would be a ton of people to even know their name), that would mean you had no opinion on 99.996666% of the country. Using that metric, if even 1% of the country has a favorable view of Kaepernick then he is both one of the most loved and most hated people in America. Heck, anyone who even 10% of the population can name is almost certainly among the most loved and most hated.
I was just pulling some names that are clear and obvious as being far, far more universally hated, not trying to make a complete list. I would not be at all surprised if Myles Garrett is more universally disliked among NFL fans right now (among folks who know who he is). I would not be surprised if Tom Brady was more disliked than Kap as there are more, "I'm sick of the Pats winning all the damn time!" folks out there than there are Patriot lovers. I could go on but it sorta is pointless.
I would like to thank you for proving my point... there are a ton of people who like and support Kap. By a 4-to-1 margin (according to your numbers) the American people support his right to protest and 2-in-5 Americans approve of his actions... and yet you seem to label him as one of the bad guys in our world. Like I said, one can personally agree or disagree with what he did, but you would have to bury your head in the sand and refuse to look at numbers to ignore that there are a tremendous number of people who admire him and think he is being principled. Heck, I'm not sure I agree with that but your original post seemed to at least imply that there was near universal condemnation of Kap. As even your numbers show, that is not nearly the case.
And that was my only point in all this... he is a hero to a great many people and I believe that anyone who implies otherwise is making an unfair extrapolation of their own personal views.
-Jason "I believe we have beaten this horse into submission so I will stop now" Evans
Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?
Ogunjobi's and Garrett's suspensions upheld (though Ogunjobi had his fine rescinded), Pouncey reduced to 2 games (his fine was not rescinded). Tough break for Pouncey that his adjudicator, Hall of Famer Derrick Brooks, gave such modest weight to the code. I guess some just don't really understand the inner workings of the league as well as others.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...unceys-reduced
And I would be remiss to not thank you, HBK, for the thoughtful, and polite, comment you left me on my last post. You seem every bit as nice as your posts suggest.
Demented and sad, but social, right?
Except it doesn't. The majority approve of his "rights" as an American citizen but the majority disaprove of him and his actions as evidenced. Nor do I think I ever labeled him as a "bad guy", just that he has done more harm than was needed also as evidenced above by the strong negative opinions on him from again... the majority. I'm also well aware he has many fans because of his protests and never even made an attempt to say he was universally condemned, as I said in my lengthy reply he is just one of the most hated or disapproved of and again the evidence bears that out with tens of millions of people saying they strongly dislike him with an accurate number being well north of 60 million people who dislike him.
I never disagreed nor even implied other wise that he wasn't considered a hero to many. Just that he has hurt his cause and could have handled it better as well as he evokes a ton of negative emotion from a ton of people (more so than most).
I agree again, this topic should be done.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking
Sources say Rudolph will be fined $50K.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...000-fine-fight
Bob Green
Now this is funny:
As of this writing on Friday afternoon, there are numerous tickets for 1 p.m. kickoff at FedEx Field between 1-9 Washington and the 3-6-1 Lions going for $12 on SeatGeek. That’s not a typo: $12.
They’re in the 400 sections, which are high above the end zones, but there are tickets for Section 142, row 26, which are at the 40-yard line, that are only $51.
Tickets for a 1:30 p.m. showing of “Frozen 2” on IMAX at the AMC Magic Johnson Capital Center 12 are $13.99 for adults and $12.49 for children.
https://sports.yahoo.com/frozen-2-or...194807640.html
There should also be more room for tailgating at the FB game than at Frozen.