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Thread: 2019 NFL Season

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyClark View Post
    The Kaepernick events of last week were very strange.

    I'm not sure why the NFL even attempted to set this up, given that fact that Kaepernick had sued them and won a settlement. Maybe this was a condition of the settlement or maybe Jay-Z had some influence on the NFL.

    Kaepernick, probably through his advisors, didn't do anything to advance a renewed career in the NFL. They changed the location at the last minute. Kaepernick, in my opinion, went out of his way to be hostile to the NFL and future employers. I think he sealed his fate with his conduct last week.

    So, yeah, I believe in the First Amendment. It doesn't mean I agree with Kaepernick's stance or conduct, but he absolutely has the right to talk and act the way he has. It makes him less employable. There is no way I would hire this guy if, in a different universe, I owned an NFL team[/LIST]
    All of this and also what everyone else has already said. I won't comment on his stances and comments that stray too close too infraction territory as I'm sure mods don't like where this conversation could easily lead. However I think that regardless of his stances he has handled nearly everything poorly if he really did want to make a difference. Instead of kneeling during anthems why not use your platform to inform others in the media and use your influence to stage sit-ins or protests outside of your local government and police headquarters? Organize meetings or something.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    All of this and also what everyone else has already said. I won't comment on his stances and comments that stray too close too infraction territory as I'm sure mods don't like where this conversation could easily lead. However I think that regardless of his stances he has handled nearly everything poorly if he really did want to make a difference. Instead of kneeling during anthems why not use your platform to inform others in the media and use your influence to stage sit-ins or protests outside of your local government and police headquarters? Organize meetings or something.
    I do not think that organizing meetings or something would have had made a bigger difference. He has made a pretty big difference following the path he charted.
    Carolina delenda est

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    In the South, people most often say they "don't have a dog in this hunt." I don't have any problem whatsoever with this particular idiom.


    Quick tangential question: If you don't like "more than one way to skin a cat," are you also equally displeased with "kill two birds with one stone?" Just curious.
    Would giving a rat's behind be similarly problematic?

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Would giving a rat's behind be similarly problematic?
    It depends on where you got it.
    Carolina delenda est

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I do not think that organizing meetings or something would have had made a bigger difference. He has made a pretty big difference following the path he charted.
    We are probably just gonna have to disagree on that then. He is one of the most hated people in the US right now and has done more harm than good for what he supposedly wants to achieve. LeBron uses his platform very well on the other hand. I think he could do more by going and arranging meeting with people who can make change. CK brought some attention to issues but he did much more harm than good by "insulting" 10s of thousands (at a minimum) of people.
    Last edited by JNort; 11-20-2019 at 03:48 AM. Reason: Word choice.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    FWIW, dog fighting is illegal in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the territories of the United States. It is an outdated phrase much like removing layers of a cat. Hopefully we can advance our conversations beyond these outmoded phraseologies.
    You forgot your /sarc tag.

    ...at least I HOPE you did.
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    He is one of the most hated people in the US right now and has done more harm than good for what he supposedly wants to achieve.
    You can't just toss something like that out there without backing it up with some facts. Kaepernick might be disliked among older, white communities but that is decidedly not the case for minority communities or younger Americans. Here is a poll that finds that while 6 in 10 Americans think athletes should stand during the national athlete, only 28% of African Americans share that belief and less than half (44%) of people 18-29 feel that standing should be required.

    I tried to find favorable/unfavorable splits on Kaepernick, but was unsuccessful. I recall a few years ago seeing that some people who think athletes should stand for the anthem still felt it was Kap's right to kneel if he wanted too, so I am betting his approval numbers are better than the "should stand" numbers. In other words, it is a pretty safe assumption that Kap's national approval rating is in the 50% kind of range, perhaps a bit higher. Sure, he has vocal detractors who feel strongly that he is disrespecting the military or police or something like that, but "one of the most hated people in the US" seems like quite a bit of a stretch.

    I would need to see a lot of evidence to convince me that Kaepernick is more hated than millionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein or #MeToo poster child Harvey Weinstein. Is Kap more hated than Charlie Manson? What about Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong Un? Is this just people Americans hate or people who are in America who are hated? I bet I can name at least 30 politicians (on both sides of the aisle) who would have far worse favorability ratings than Kap.

    I do not want us to get into a debate about Kap's protests and the value of them, as that would quite clearly violate the public policy ban on the DBR. But I just could not allow your statement about him being one of the most hated to sit there, unchallenged, like it was the truth. It may be that among the community you associate with he is hated... I don't know the color of your skin, your age, where you live, or other facts that could lend some perspective on what you and the folks you associate with think about knelling... but, as I have shown with polling facts, there are tens of millions of Americans who find nothing wrong with Kap's form of protest.

    -Jason "I hope this does not devolve into a policy debate... sorry if I contributed to that" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    You can't just toss something like that out there without backing it up with some facts. Kaepernick might be disliked among older, white communities but that is decidedly not the case for minority communities or younger Americans. Here is a poll that finds that while 6 in 10 Americans think athletes should stand during the national athlete, only 28% of African Americans share that belief and less than half (44%) of people 18-29 feel that standing should be required.

    I tried to find favorable/unfavorable splits on Kaepernick, but was unsuccessful. I recall a few years ago seeing that some people who think athletes should stand for the anthem still felt it was Kap's right to kneel if he wanted too, so I am betting his approval numbers are better than the "should stand" numbers. In other words, it is a pretty safe assumption that Kap's national approval rating is in the 50% kind of range, perhaps a bit higher. Sure, he has vocal detractors who feel strongly that he is disrespecting the military or police or something like that, but "one of the most hated people in the US" seems like quite a bit of a stretch.

    I would need to see a lot of evidence to convince me that Kaepernick is more hated than millionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein or #MeToo poster child Harvey Weinstein. Is Kap more hated than Charlie Manson? What about Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong Un? Is this just people Americans hate or people who are in America who are hated? I bet I can name at least 30 politicians (on both sides of the aisle) who would have far worse favorability ratings than Kap.

    I do not want us to get into a debate about Kap's protests and the value of them, as that would quite clearly violate the public policy ban on the DBR. But I just could not allow your statement about him being one of the most hated to sit there, unchallenged, like it was the truth. It may be that among the community you associate with he is hated... I don't know the color of your skin, your age, where you live, or other facts that could lend some perspective on what you and the folks you associate with think about knelling... but, as I have shown with polling facts, there are tens of millions of Americans who find nothing wrong with Kap's form of protest.

    -Jason "I hope this does not devolve into a policy debate... sorry if I contributed to that" Evans

    I strongly doubt many, if any, could walk so nimbly and adroitly along that public policy edge as you just have, without tumbling into the abyss. I hope no one tries.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    There is a code...what Pouncey did was within the code - what Garrett did was totally out of bounds, unprecedented. And BTW, what Garrett did happened before what Pouncey did...it was a domino thing. Any analysis without that context is simply meaningless.
    Is this the code found in the Book of Armaments? "Thou shall kick at the head of thy opponent, until his brain explodes into tiny bits." And amen.

    That act should carry a hefty fine, in my opinion.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    We are probably just gonna have to disagree on that then.
    Okay by me, JNort. Sounds like a perfect off ramp.

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    You can't just toss something like that out there without backing it up with some facts. Kaepernick might be disliked among older, white communities but that is decidedly not the case for minority communities or younger Americans. Here is a poll that finds that while 6 in 10 Americans think athletes should stand during the national athlete, only 28% of African Americans share that belief and less than half (44%) of people 18-29 feel that standing should be required.

    I tried to find favorable/unfavorable splits on Kaepernick, but was unsuccessful. I recall a few years ago seeing that some people who think athletes should stand for the anthem still felt it was Kap's right to kneel if he wanted too, so I am betting his approval numbers are better than the "should stand" numbers. In other words, it is a pretty safe assumption that Kap's national approval rating is in the 50% kind of range, perhaps a bit higher. Sure, he has vocal detractors who feel strongly that he is disrespecting the military or police or something like that, but "one of the most hated people in the US" seems like quite a bit of a stretch.

    I would need to see a lot of evidence to convince me that Kaepernick is more hated than millionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein or #MeToo poster child Harvey Weinstein. Is Kap more hated than Charlie Manson? What about Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong Un? Is this just people Americans hate or people who are in America who are hated? I bet I can name at least 30 politicians (on both sides of the aisle) who would have far worse favorability ratings than Kap.

    I do not want us to get into a debate about Kap's protests and the value of them, as that would quite clearly violate the public policy ban on the DBR. But I just could not allow your statement about him being one of the most hated to sit there, unchallenged, like it was the truth. It may be that among the community you associate with he is hated... I don't know the color of your skin, your age, where you live, or other facts that could lend some perspective on what you and the folks you associate with think about knelling... but, as I have shown with polling facts, there are tens of millions of Americans who find nothing wrong with Kap's form of protest.

    -Jason "I hope this does not devolve into a policy debate... sorry if I contributed to that" Evans
    Well for starters I guess I should say I think some have read more into what I said than what was there as evidenced by your response and a few others. I'm not discussing approval ratings on what he did/does but his overall image and how it has affected the issues at large. The other issue might be what we perceive as among the most hated. In a country of 300 million what % counts as significant for being among the most hated? Even if he was the 300 most hated person that still puts him in the bottom .0001% of the population. To me, that is significant and I would be willing to bet (even though we don't seem to have the evidence right now) he ranks worse than 300th.

    I also didn't say he was the most hated but one of them, even if he isn't at the top. I wasn't including politicians because they are naturally widely hated due to the nature of their work and just party loyalties. I think it's telling that the only people who might rank more hated are your big time criminals and politicians.

    But regarding what you said about people agreeing/disagreeing with him:

    From Quinnipiac
    54% Disapprove compared to 38% approval for the kneeling. https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2387

    From Seton Hall
    Americans disapprove by nearly 2 to 1 on CK protest but 4 to 1 support his right to do so.

    and

    Overall 47% disapprove of Kaepernick's actions, with 27% approving. https://www.shu.edu/news/sports-poll...kaepernick.cfm

    From E-Poll marketing research

    36% of NFL fans voted "dislike a lot" for CK. I unfortunately cant find the original poll to get the full numbers to include dislike, like, like a lot, and no opinion but there are several articles from popular media outlets with limited information.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...%3fid=42263215

    So even if we only look at the 36% of NFL fans "dislike him a lot" and ignore the category of "dislike" and using the lower number of people who claim to be nfl fans you come out to around 57 million people who dislike him a lot.

    https://www.reference.com/sports-act...650cc48aba3841

    Me personally? I don't mind athletes speaking out and I don't mind the kneeling. I do care that he has personally handled (imo of course) this in a way that has caused so many people to react negatively when he could have handled it in a way to rally more positive support and actually make a change. Now those of us who do want change have a harder road ahead because he has casued people to double down against what he stands for (or in this case kneels for).

    So for the record please stop leaving negative feedback (you know who you are) just because you project what some people think about the situation on to me. My only 2 claims are he is hated by a bunch of people and that I think he could have handled it better.
    Last edited by JNort; 11-21-2019 at 02:26 AM.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    Well for starters I guess I should say I think some have read more into what I said than what was there as evidenced by your response and a few others. I'm not discussing approval ratings on what he did/does but his overall image and how it has affected the issues at large. The other issue might be what we perceive as among the most hated. In a country of 300 million what % counts as significant for being among the most hated? Even if he was the 300 most hated person that still puts him in the bottom .0001% of the population. To me, that is significant and I would be willing to bet (even though we don't seem to have the evidence right now) he ranks worse than 300th.

    I also didn't say he was the most hated but one of them, even if he isn't at the top. I wasn't including politicians because they are naturally widely hated due to the nature of their work and just party loyalties. I think it's telling that the only people who might rank more hated are your big time criminals and politicians.

    But regarding what you said about people agreeing/disagreeing with him:

    From Quinnipiac
    54% Disapprove compared to 38% approval for the kneeling. https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2387

    From Seton Hall
    Americans disapprove by nearly 2 to 1 on CK protest but 4 to 1 support his right to do so.

    and

    Overall 47% disapprove of Kaepernick's actions, with 27% approving. https://www.shu.edu/news/sports-poll...kaepernick.cfm

    From E-Poll marketing research

    36% of NFL fans voted "dislike a lot" for CK. I unfortunately cant find the original poll to get the full numbers to include dislike, like, like a lot, and no opinion but there are several articles from popular media outlets with limited information.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...%3fid=42263215

    So even if we only look at the 36% of NFL fans "dislike him a lot" and ignore the category of "dislike" and using the lower number of people who claim to be nfl fans you come out to around 57 million people who dislike him a lot.

    https://www.reference.com/sports-act...650cc48aba3841

    Me personally? I don't mind athletes speaking out and I don't mind the kneeling. I do care that he has personally handled (imo of course) this in a way that has caused so many people to react negatively when he could have handled it in a way to rally more positive support and actually make a change. Now those of us who do want change have a harder road ahead because he has casued people to double down against what he stands for (or in this case kneels for).

    So for the record please stop leaving negative feedback (you know who you are) just because you project what some people think about the situation on to me. My only 2 claims are he is hated by a bunch of people and that I think he could have handled it better.
    Sorry for my self quote here but I didnt get the edit off in time.


    I agree with Jason that I hope this doesn't devolve into a policy debate. My inbox is welcome to any and all who would like to discuss this deeper but I too apologize if my post has contributed to a path of policy talk. I just ask that you read my final thoughts in the above self quote and not project others opinions on to me nor read into what I didn't ever say.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  13. #293
    Joke post:

    skins @ lion 11/28/19 aka "The Tank Bowl"
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    Well for starters I guess I should say I think some have read more into what I said than what was there as evidenced by your response and a few others. I'm not discussing approval ratings on what he did/does but his overall image and how it has affected the issues at large. The other issue might be what we perceive as among the most hated. In a country of 300 million what % counts as significant for being among the most hated? Even if he was the 300 most hated person that still puts him in the bottom .0001% of the population. To me, that is significant and I would be willing to bet (even though we don't seem to have the evidence right now) he ranks worse than 300th.
    Ok, wait, really? Are you actually talking about some kind of hatred ranking that includes the entire general population? Can I just point out that the American people have no opinion on well over 99.99% of the rest of the country. I mean, lets say you had some kind of opinion on a million people (that would be a ton of people to even know their name), that would mean you had no opinion on 99.996666% of the country. Using that metric, if even 1% of the country has a favorable view of Kaepernick then he is both one of the most loved and most hated people in America. Heck, anyone who even 10% of the population can name is almost certainly among the most loved and most hated.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    I also didn't say he was the most hated but one of them, even if he isn't at the top. I wasn't including politicians because they are naturally widely hated due to the nature of their work and just party loyalties. I think it's telling that the only people who might rank more hated are your big time criminals and politicians.
    I was just pulling some names that are clear and obvious as being far, far more universally hated, not trying to make a complete list. I would not be at all surprised if Myles Garrett is more universally disliked among NFL fans right now (among folks who know who he is). I would not be surprised if Tom Brady was more disliked than Kap as there are more, "I'm sick of the Pats winning all the damn time!" folks out there than there are Patriot lovers. I could go on but it sorta is pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    But regarding what you said about people agreeing/disagreeing with him:

    From Quinnipiac
    54% Disapprove compared to 38% approval for the kneeling. https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2387

    From Seton Hall
    Americans disapprove by nearly 2 to 1 on CK protest but 4 to 1 support his right to do so.

    and

    Overall 47% disapprove of Kaepernick's actions, with 27% approving. https://www.shu.edu/news/sports-poll...kaepernick.cfm
    I would like to thank you for proving my point... there are a ton of people who like and support Kap. By a 4-to-1 margin (according to your numbers) the American people support his right to protest and 2-in-5 Americans approve of his actions... and yet you seem to label him as one of the bad guys in our world. Like I said, one can personally agree or disagree with what he did, but you would have to bury your head in the sand and refuse to look at numbers to ignore that there are a tremendous number of people who admire him and think he is being principled. Heck, I'm not sure I agree with that but your original post seemed to at least imply that there was near universal condemnation of Kap. As even your numbers show, that is not nearly the case.

    And that was my only point in all this... he is a hero to a great many people and I believe that anyone who implies otherwise is making an unfair extrapolation of their own personal views.

    -Jason "I believe we have beaten this horse into submission so I will stop now" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Joke post:

    skins @ lion 11/28/19 aka "The Tank Bowl"
    I envision teammates grabbing a ball carrier and directing him toward the end zone. But which one?

  16. #296
    Ogunjobi's and Garrett's suspensions upheld (though Ogunjobi had his fine rescinded), Pouncey reduced to 2 games (his fine was not rescinded). Tough break for Pouncey that his adjudicator, Hall of Famer Derrick Brooks, gave such modest weight to the code. I guess some just don't really understand the inner workings of the league as well as others.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...unceys-reduced

    And I would be remiss to not thank you, HBK, for the thoughtful, and polite, comment you left me on my last post. You seem every bit as nice as your posts suggest.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Ok, wait, really? Are you actually talking about some kind of hatred ranking that includes the entire general population? Can I just point out that the American people have no opinion on well over 99.99% of the rest of the country. I mean, lets say you had some kind of opinion on a million people (that would be a ton of people to even know their name), that would mean you had no opinion on 99.996666% of the country. Using that metric, if even 1% of the country has a favorable view of Kaepernick then he is both one of the most loved and most hated people in America. Heck, anyone who even 10% of the population can name is almost certainly among the most loved and most hated.




    I was just pulling some names that are clear and obvious as being far, far more universally hated, not trying to make a complete list. I would not be at all surprised if Myles Garrett is more universally disliked among NFL fans right now (among folks who know who he is). I would not be surprised if Tom Brady was more disliked than Kap as there are more, "I'm sick of the Pats winning all the damn time!" folks out there than there are Patriot lovers. I could go on but it sorta is pointless.



    I would like to thank you for proving my point... there are a ton of people who like and support Kap. By a 4-to-1 margin (according to your numbers) the American people support his right to protest and 2-in-5 Americans approve of his actions... and yet you seem to label him as one of the bad guys in our world. Like I said, one can personally agree or disagree with what he did, but you would have to bury your head in the sand and refuse to look at numbers to ignore that there are a tremendous number of people who admire him and think he is being principled. Heck, I'm not sure I agree with that but your original post seemed to at least imply that there was near universal condemnation of Kap. As even your numbers show, that is not nearly the case.

    And that was my only point in all this... he is a hero to a great many people and I believe that anyone who implies otherwise is making an unfair extrapolation of their own personal views.

    -Jason "I believe we have beaten this horse into submission so I will stop now" Evans
    Except it doesn't. The majority approve of his "rights" as an American citizen but the majority disaprove of him and his actions as evidenced. Nor do I think I ever labeled him as a "bad guy", just that he has done more harm than was needed also as evidenced above by the strong negative opinions on him from again... the majority. I'm also well aware he has many fans because of his protests and never even made an attempt to say he was universally condemned, as I said in my lengthy reply he is just one of the most hated or disapproved of and again the evidence bears that out with tens of millions of people saying they strongly dislike him with an accurate number being well north of 60 million people who dislike him.

    I never disagreed nor even implied other wise that he wasn't considered a hero to many. Just that he has hurt his cause and could have handled it better as well as he evokes a ton of negative emotion from a ton of people (more so than most).

    I agree again, this topic should be done.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    NFL left the door open for further disciplinary action so I expect Mason Rudolph will receive a hefty fine before this is over.
    Sources say Rudolph will be fined $50K.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...000-fine-fight
    Bob Green
    DBR Survivor Football Champion
    2010 & 2016

  19. #299
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    How Bad are the Lions and the Redskins?

    Now this is funny:

    As of this writing on Friday afternoon, there are numerous tickets for 1 p.m. kickoff at FedEx Field between 1-9 Washington and the 3-6-1 Lions going for $12 on SeatGeek. That’s not a typo: $12.
    They’re in the 400 sections, which are high above the end zones, but there are tickets for Section 142, row 26, which are at the 40-yard line, that are only $51.
    Tickets for a 1:30 p.m. showing of “Frozen 2” on IMAX at the AMC Magic Johnson Capital Center 12 are $13.99 for adults and $12.49 for children.


    https://sports.yahoo.com/frozen-2-or...194807640.html

    There should also be more room for tailgating at the FB game than at Frozen.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Now this is funny:

    As of this writing on Friday afternoon, there are numerous tickets for 1 p.m. kickoff at FedEx Field between 1-9 Washington and the 3-6-1 Lions going for $12 on SeatGeek. That’s not a typo: $12.
    They’re in the 400 sections, which are high above the end zones, but there are tickets for Section 142, row 26, which are at the 40-yard line, that are only $51.
    Tickets for a 1:30 p.m. showing of “Frozen 2” on IMAX at the AMC Magic Johnson Capital Center 12 are $13.99 for adults and $12.49 for children.


    https://sports.yahoo.com/frozen-2-or...194807640.html

    There should also be more room for tailgating at the FB game than at Frozen.
    It’s funny, I’ve been to Skins away games, but never had tickets to RFK and would have gone. Now the Snyderskins are begging for fans and I have 0 interest in going.

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