Shooting in El Paso

[OldPhiKap]

You blamed the problem of mass shootings on a lobbying group. That's partisan because partisan can mean favoring a particular cause, not just a particular party.

I guess we have different definitions so I’ll drop it. But FTR I am a gun-owner that votes R, D and Ind. my comment is not directed at any party, nor is it an argument against gun ownership.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You blamed the problem of mass shootings on a lobbying group. That's partisan because partisan can mean favoring a particular cause, not just a particular party.



The major media outlets should report gender, race, religion, etc, if that is your concern. But why do we need the specific name or photos of the person to be published?

For those interested in the "no notoriety" viewpoint: https://nonotoriety.com/data-experts/

And, again, it doesn't have to be the only solution pursued obviously.

No. I want to know the shooter's reasons. Were they a disgruntled former employee? Were they mentally ill? Were they lashing out against women? Were they attacking a particular racial group?

I want as much information as possible because I want it to stop.

I find it difficult to believe the shooters do this for some sort of blaze of glory notoriety. How many mass shooters can you name?

[dudog84]

No. I want to know the shooter's reasons. Were they a disgruntled former employee? Were they mentally ill? Were they lashing out against women? Were they attacking a particular racial group?

I want as much information as possible because I want it to stop.

I find it difficult to believe the shooters do this for some sort of blaze of glory notoriety. How many mass shooters can you name?

Excellent point. We know them as Las Vegas, Parkland, Columbine, etc. Communities that will never quite be the same. And unfortunately coming soon to a community near you it seems.

[OldPhiKap]

Just saw some video from a Dayton press conference. One thing I hope we can agree upon: it is amazing that while a sea of people are running away, law enforcement officers are rushing towards the danger. And this would have been SO much worse but for their quick and effective action. The shooter had dual-drums that hold up to 100 rounds.

Those folks are the true heroes of that episode.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Just saw some video from a Dayton press conference. One thing I hope we can agree upon: it is amazing that while a sea of people are running away, law enforcement officers are rushing towards the danger. And this would have been SO much worse but for their quick and effective action. The shooter had dual-drums that hold up to 100 rounds.

Those folks are the true heroes of that episode.

I agree, but also hate the solution, just as much as I hate the reason the solution was needed. The shooter was stopped with bullets, and quickly. Like it or not, this will feed the rallying cry that the public should be constantly armed so that in the case of such an event, everyone can pull out their own guns and stop the insanity.
It's a vicious cycle.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I agree, but also hate the solution, just as much as I hate the reason the solution was needed. The shooter was stopped with bullets, and quickly. Like it or not, this will feed the rallying cry that the public should be constantly armed so that in the case of such an event, everyone can pull out their own guns and stop the insanity.
It's a vicious cycle.

Right, cause it’s working so well in TX...

[Devilwin]

Nothing will ever beat the Onion’s headline: “No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens.”

The Onion is wrong. Actually, the USA is ranked 66th in mass shootings per 100,000 people, and eleventh when ranked against European nations.
http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/ma...ther-countries. That being said, even one incident is bad enough.

[OldPhiKap]

The Onion is wrong. Actually, the USA is ranked 66th in mass shootings per 100,000 people, and eleventh when ranked against European nations.
http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/ma...ther-countries. That being said, even one incident is bad enough.

Your source is not without criticism:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thinkpr...6e83cf326/amp/

[YmoBeThere]

The Onion is wrong. Actually, the USA is ranked 66th in mass shootings per 100,000 people, and eleventh when ranked against European nations.
http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/ma...ther-countries. That being said, even one incident is bad enough.

Your source is not without criticism:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thinkpr...6e83cf326/amp/

Wow, so I read some of the research at the Crime Prevention Reseach Center and to say that the methodology borders on incompetence is an under statement. I certainly would not ever hire them for objective resarch. Now, if I had an agenda, they would be my go to.

[dudog84]

Your source is not without criticism:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thinkpr...6e83cf326/amp/

From the article:

"And a blogger revealed that Mary Rosh, an online commentator claiming to be a former student of Lott’s who would frequently post about how amazing he was, was in fact John Lott himself."

Lol, where have I heard of that type of behavior before?

[YmoBeThere]

From the article:

"And a blogger revealed that Mary Rosh, an online commentator claiming to be a former student of Lott’s who would frequently post about how amazing he was, was in fact John Lott himself."

Lol, where have I heard of that type of behavior before?

Hey now, I only use one screenname here.😂

[Reilly]

"Carry yourself like a winner." - David Cutcliffe

[PackMan97]

This is an issue that strikes very close to home for me and my family. Not because we have been victims of gun violence, but because we acted to avoid it. I think too many want to hide their heads in the sand and pretend people aren't as whacked out as they are. In almost every case, there have been plenty of warning signs and opportunities for law enforcement to get involved...and even a few cases were law enforcement fell down on the job. Mental health is an issue EVERYONE needs to take seriously.

Now onto my story...this time last year my father-in-law began suffering from paranoid delusions. He thought his wife (of 48 years) had a boyfriend that had already tried to kill him twice. He thought this boyfriend was building towers in the backyard so his boys could shoot into his house with a rifle. He basically had a loaded handgun in every room along with several full magazines. He was threatening to shoot the boyfriend if he ever saw him or any of his crew. Thankfully, my mother-in-law FINALLY let us know how bad it had gotten (no history of this type of behavior until a case of sepsis from an infected gall bladder). The very next day we drove three hours, got my mother-in-law to the county magistrate and had my father-in-law involuntarily committed. It's not easy to do something like that but we could never have forgiven ourselves if a UPS guy, their neighbor, one of the neighbor kids or a random stranger rang their doorbell and was killed for it. The local hospital wanted to chalk it up to dementia and kick him out onto the street, but we fought to get him sent to a hospital half way across the state that specifically dealt with elderly and mental health. Thankfully they got him on some meds, he got the delusions under control and he and his wife will celebrate 50 years of marriage next week.

The moral of the story is that friends and family HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING!

All the laws and all the political pontificating isn't going to change anything. If you see someone in crisis, HELP THEM!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

This is an issue that strikes very close to home for me and my family. Not because we have been victims of gun violence, but because we acted to avoid it. I think too many want to hide their heads in the sand and pretend people aren't as whacked out as they are. In almost every case, there have been plenty of warning signs and opportunities for law enforcement to get involved...and even a few cases were law enforcement fell down on the job. Mental health is an issue EVERYONE needs to take seriously.

Now onto my story...this time last year my father-in-law began suffering from paranoid delusions. He thought his wife (of 48 years) had a boyfriend that had already tried to kill him twice. He thought this boyfriend was building towers in the backyard so his boys could shoot into his house with a rifle. He basically had a loaded handgun in every room along with several full magazines. He was threatening to shoot the boyfriend if he ever saw him or any of his crew. Thankfully, my mother-in-law FINALLY let us know how bad it had gotten (no history of this type of behavior until a case of sepsis from an infected gall bladder). The very next day we drove three hours, got my mother-in-law to the county magistrate and had my father-in-law involuntarily committed. It's not easy to do something like that but we could never have forgiven ourselves if a UPS guy, their neighbor, one of the neighbor kids or a random stranger rang their doorbell and was killed for it. The local hospital wanted to chalk it up to dementia and kick him out onto the street, but we fought to get him sent to a hospital half way across the state that specifically dealt with elderly and mental health. Thankfully they got him on some meds, he got the delusions under control and he and his wife will celebrate 50 years of marriage next week.

The moral of the story is that friends and family HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING!

All the laws and all the political pontificating isn't going to change anything. If you see someone in crisis, HELP THEM!

Your story also highlights, unfortunately, the radical shortcomings of our mental health system. We’ll gladly fix broken bones and ailing hearts but as a health system we sorely underserve those with maladies of the brain... much of it having to do with the fact that providers do not deem it to be profitable, or profitable enough.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I also read this morning that police in Dayton engaged the shooter and ended his rampage in just 30 seconds. And he still killed 9 people and injured 27. Do we need any further evidence of how dangerous and unnecessary it is to allow semi-auto assault rifles and large magazines? Good gosh.

[Wander]

I'll revise this opinion if we get more information or if this "manifesto" turns out to be a hoax, but it sure seems that the El Paso shooter is a somewhat straightforward case of political terrorism. Invoking mental health, video games, or potato chips as the reason for the shooting doesn't make any more sense than invoking those things to explain Bin Laden.

Not claiming every mass shooter is motivated by the things the El Paso shooter was motivated by. It seems to me that the things that are the most common themes among these mass shootings are access to weaponry and gender of the shooter (not race btw, as lots of people like to claim).

[mattman91]

I also read this morning that police in Dayton engaged the shooter and ended his rampage in just 30 seconds. And he still killed 9 people and injured 27. Do we need any further evidence of how dangerous and unnecessary it is to allow semi-auto assault rifles and large magazines? Good gosh.

You can fire a round with any semi automatic gun as fast as you can squeeze the trigger. A semi auto AR-15 or AK-47 fire no faster than any semi auto hand gun or "hunting rifle". Cosmetic features DO NOT change the functionality of a weapon.

FWIW, all types of rifles l, not just "assault rifles", only make up 3% of gun deaths.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-4.xls

Yet, nobody is pushing for criminalizing handguns. I digress.

As for large magazines, it takes 2 seconds to release a magazine and slide another in.

No idea how this thread is still up, but I'm almost positive my post will be the one that ends it.

[mattman91]

I'll revise this opinion if we get more information or if this "manifesto" turns out to be a hoax, but it sure seems that the El Paso shooter is a somewhat straightforward case of political terrorism. Invoking mental health, video games, or potato chips as the reason for the shooting doesn't make any more sense than invoking those things to explain Bin Laden.

Not claiming every mass shooter is motivated by the things the El Paso shooter was motivated by. It seems to me that the things that are the most common themes among these mass shootings are access to weaponry and gender of the shooter (not race btw, as lots of people like to claim).

Yep, political terrorism. No doubt.

Same for the Ohio shooter, but he was on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.washi...h-warren-supp/

They can both rot.

[dudog84]

Posted without comment, Trump tweet from 7:32 this morning:

"The Media has a big responsibility to life and safety in our Country. Fake News has contributed greatly to the anger and rage that has built up over many years. News coverage has got to start being fair, balanced and unbiased, or these terrible problems will only get worse!"

[Highlander]

This is my go-to take on gun violence and what we can do about it. It's worth a read if you have the time. Language is a bit salty if that bothers you. Stonekettle is a good follow on Twitter as well.

http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/06/b...ng-sanity.html

My biggest regret is that the gun debate has become so polarizing that it is impossible to have a rational conversation around legislative solutions to this epidemic. Everyone just retreats to their preferred side of the argument and yells at the other side. Both sides have data to back up their arguments, and both sides think they are right and the other side is misinformed. The end result is that absolutely nothing changes.

What is clear to me is that our current approach to gun control is not working, and we need to change it. Change means law abiding gun owners will probably be inconvenienced somehow. I'm open to what those changes might look like. But I do think that the status quo has proven to be ineffective at managing the problem.