Shooting in El Paso

[Bluedog]

What is lost in all of this is the 40 victims of gun violence in Chicago in just the past weekend! Why is there no hue and cry over this? An emergency room in a major hospital closed due to the overload! It just doesn't fit the narrative. It would be contrary the politics of those pushing gun control. If we are truly concerned about gun violence, Chicago should be front and center, as there are more gun fatalities there than in all "mass shootings" nationwide. Pretty sure Chicago is up there in terms of gun control FWIW. So, what's next?

I think people care more about the mass shootings because they have "random" victims whereas inner city violence is largely gang related. Both bad certainly though. And while Chicago itself may have strict gun control laws, the city borders Indiana...It's literally a 15 minute drive from many of the south side neighborhoods. And Wisconsin isn't far away either. Both those states have very lax gun laws and many guns in Chicago (the majority) come from out of state.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Gun ownership rates and suicide rates go hand in hand in this country.

I get your drift, but I'm not sure I agree. It could be why suicide by jumping off bridges and buildings, and in front of trains is more prevalent in other countries, but if you are so depressed that you want to end your life, you are going to find a way to do it, no matter the means.

[Bluedog]

I get your drift, but I'm not sure I agree. It could be why suicide by jumping off bridges and buildings, and in front of trains is more prevalent in other countries, but if you are so depressed that you want to end your life, you are going to find a way to do it, no matter the means.

Most depressed people don't have much energy to go through a lot of means to commit suicide. They may do it if it's "easy" but won't go through with it if it takes more effort. Of course, that's not always the case, but is a relatively common theme among the clinically depressed cohort.

[bundabergdevil]

I get your drift, but I'm not sure I agree. It could be why suicide by jumping off bridges and buildings, and in front of trains is more prevalent in other countries, but if you are so depressed that you want to end your life, you are going to find a way to do it, no matter the means.

Surely you aren't intending to suggest a person contemplating suicide can't be helped? Something like 2/3rds of people considering suicide actively seek out help and of course there are hundreds of thousands of survivors of suicidal behavior in the U.S.

Hell, this guy used Google Ad redirects to land a 28% conversion rate from people google searching suicide terms in the vicinity of the Golden Gate Bridge to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. Google had experimented with the same method to de-escalate radical Islamics.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

The tone of this post is incredibly condescending. We were having a respectful conversation up until this point.

I don't "get my jollies " or "feel like a really big man" by shooting my AR. I also don't go around shooting innocent people with it. Am I against violent criminals, or those with documented serious mental issues having them? You are damn right I am. Do I agree with background checks? Yep - and I've had one for each gun I have purchased. Don't assume things.

Perhaps you should go outside of your "liberal circle" (your words, not mine) and hear some opinions outside of your own echo chamber. Maybe then you will understand that pro-gun #2A folks aren't all just a bunch of gun-totin' hillbillies. You also show quite a bit of metropolitan ignorance with your "well-trained police officer who is coming to help you" line. News flash: not all people live in urban neighborhoods where police are minutes away at all times.

As for the abortion comment - I have no idea why you felt the need to bring that up. But, since you did, I'm actually mostly "pro-choice". Not that that has anything to do with this conversation.

You refuse to give up your AR. Case closed. You are not willing to even consider sacrificing your need to own and use this gun for the possibility that taking them out of circulation might help save some lives. Unfortunately, the cat is already out of the bag and I admit that there are so many of these guns out there that it will be very hard to get them back, but it is worth a try.

I appreciate that you support background checks and some limitations. That is definitely a major step in the right direction. But it is not enough.

And much as you think I am generalizing about you, you are generalizing about me. I live in NYC and have spent most of my life in major metro areas in the northeast. But unlike way too many people who have never interacted with those with differing opinions and backgrounds, I have spent significant portions of my life in parts of the country that trend very differently to my beliefs (in addition to attending Duke, which is admittedly its own bubble). Professionally I have worked in countless small towns across America, particularly in the Southeast. I think this country would be a lot better place if people left their bubbles and met people who were different from them. For example, New York City really isn't such a big, scary place. Right now is heavy tourist season and I am the one on the subway offering to help tourists navigate the nuances of the NY subway system - we aren't all bleeding heart liberal, mean-spirited know-it-alls.

[mph]

Not really an apt comparison.

The apt comparison is that since cars are used to kill people, we should more tightly control the sale and ownership of cars (rental would be unthinkable!), and particularly regulate those capable of greater casualties (SUVs? muscle cars?).

There are laws against using cars or guns in careless or reckless or intentional manners which harm others.

What is lost in all of this is the 40 victims of gun violence in Chicago in just the past weekend! Why is there no hue and cry over this? An emergency room in a major hospital closed due to the overload! It just doesn't fit the narrative. It would be contrary the politics of those pushing gun control. If we are truly concerned about gun violence, Chicago should be front and center, as there are more gun fatalities there than in all "mass shootings" nationwide. Pretty sure Chicago is up there in terms of gun control FWIW. So, what's next?

I don't oppose restricting large capacity magazines. I do resent all of the money and legislative time and effort wasted in trying to legislate a right clearly granted by the constitution. There is no constitutional grant of the right to bear cars.

Sorry if I'm venting a little frustration. I respect the fellow members of this board enough to have a reasonable discussion. What is going on in popular media and social media makes me bang my head slowly against a wall.

Well said.

Regarding Jim’s slippery slope argument, I want to add that no one in this thread has made an argument that could fairly be characterized as “any restrictions on guns will lead to the government taking people’s guns.”

The fear that someone will take you you car is irrational because, while they are regulated, I don’t know of anyone proposing a ban on an entire class of cars (insert Green New Deal joke here). The fear that an assault weapon ban is a precursor to a ban on all semi-automatic firearms is rational because a sizable minority of the population (28%) favors a handgun ban.

This isn’t hypothetical. Before the Heller decision, Washington DC had a total ban on the possession of handguns and required all shotguns and rifles to be kept disassembled or with a trigger lock. Similarly, while I’ve never heard of people lobbying a business to stop selling cars, Walmart is facing pressure to stop selling all guns and ammunition even though they stopped selling semi-automatic rifles in 2015.