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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    What possible metric do you use to state Cole shoots the ball well? Sounds like you’re basing that on all the preseason hype, cause 30 something % doesn’t tell me he shoots “well”.
    In just 9 college games, he has made 22 of 62 3-point attempts (35.5%). That is not bad but over a very small sample size. His recent 1-6 performance against UVA skews that quite a bit. If you look at his whole history from AAU and high school, he's an excellent shooter. In 21 games during the summer AAU circuit of 2018, he made 38% of his 3-point attempts and almost 90% of his free throw attempts. That's a much bigger sample size and matches his career shooting stats from high school. He's not Steph Curry or even Luke Kennard from deep, but he's pretty good.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    In just 9 college games, he has made 22 of 62 3-point attempts (35.5%). That is not bad but over a very small sample size. His recent 1-6 performance against UVA skews that quite a bit. If you look at his whole history from AAU and high school, he's an excellent shooter. In 21 games during the summer AAU circuit of 2018, he made 38% of his 3-point attempts and almost 90% of his free throw attempts. That's a much bigger sample size and matches his career shooting stats from high school. He's not Steph Curry or even Luke Kennard from deep, but he's pretty good.
    It probably doesn't help that none of his team mates can shoot, and he's getting all of the defensive attention, but my impression of Cole is that he's really just an undersized shooting guard. And not in the Kyrie Irving kind of way. He doesn't have that type of handle and decision making, which leads him to turn over the ball at a high rate.

    I think Cole is something like an improved version of Austin Rivers. Better shooter, better rebounder, but I don't think he's a NBA caliber point guard. I think he'll make a career out of being a high level scorer off the bench in the league.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    In just 9 college games, he has made 22 of 62 3-point attempts (35.5%). That is not bad but over a very small sample size. His recent 1-6 performance against UVA skews that quite a bit. If you look at his whole history from AAU and high school, he's an excellent shooter. In 21 games during the summer AAU circuit of 2018, he made 38% of his 3-point attempts and almost 90% of his free throw attempts. That's a much bigger sample size and matches his career shooting stats from high school. He's not Steph Curry or even Luke Kennard from deep, but he's pretty good.
    So far at UNCheat he’s also shooting 30 something % on 2-pt shots and under 68% from the FT line. Maybe he’s uncomfortable with the college FT distance.😀

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    It probably doesn't help that none of his team mates can shoot, and he's getting all of the defensive attention, but my impression of Cole is that he's really just an undersized shooting guard. And not in the Kyrie Irving kind of way. He doesn't have that type of handle and decision making, which leads him to turn over the ball at a high rate.

    I think Cole is something like an improved version of Austin Rivers. Better shooter, better rebounder, but I don't think he's a NBA caliber point guard. I think he'll make a career out of being a high level scorer off the bench in the league.
    I think he's a better passer than Rivers, too. But, again, his teammates stink. Like, it's a really weak group of guys around him. Recruiting attrition appears to have caught up to them (finally). It was likely to be about how much he could mask the deficiencies of the guys around him barring an unexpected Luke Maye-like emergence from a returnee.

    I kind of see him as a taller Kyle Lowry, or a cross between Lowry and Randy Foye. He's a better shooter than those guys were at this stage, and I don't know if he defends like they did at the college level. But stylistically that's kind of where I see him.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Jason, it’s not fair to come in and score some points supporting your position and THEN say that the horse is sufficiently dead. If you think the subject is dead then perhaps you shouldn’t be commenting at all at that point. I think the horse is still on a respirator clinging to life, though just barely. 😉

    By the way, UNC Basketball still sucks. Can we at least agree on that?
    100% agreed!!

    I was sorta meaning there was no more horse beating left in me, which is why I was bowing out. Other can continue to flog all they want but I've said my peace
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    100% agreed!!

    I was sorta meaning there was no more horse beating left in me, which is why I was bowing out. Other can continue to flog all they want but I've said my peace
    Totally understand. Thanks Jason. 👍🏻

    As an aside, I saw the other day that Tre Jones is projected to go as the #22 pick in the upcoming draft. Does anyone remember his projected 2019 draft position at the end of his freshman year/beginning of summer?
       

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Totally understand. Thanks Jason. ����

    As an aside, I saw the other day that Tre Jones is projected to go as the #22 pick in the upcoming draft. Does anyone remember his projected 2019 draft position at the end of his freshman year/beginning of summer?
    I think it was in the 20s or 30s, depending on site. There is a lot of variability in how folks are ranking these guys (understandably so). For example, some still have Hurt in the teens, some have him not on the board.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    I saw the other day that Tre Jones is projected to go as the #22 pick in the upcoming draft. Does anyone remember his projected 2019 draft position at the end of his freshman year/beginning of summer?
    Jonathan Givony currently has 5 Duke players in the top 60 of his 2020 mock draft:

    18. Vernon Carey
    21. Tre Jones
    32. Wendell Moore
    33. Matthew Hurt
    59. Cassius Stanley

    I believe Tre was an early second round pick #32 or 33 before the 2019 draft on Givony's board.

    Cassius all the way down at 59 is surprising to me. Givony gives pros and cons to the higher rated prospects, but I would really interested in hearing why he's this low on Stanley. I guess his lack of length and age might be a factor, but I thought he would be rated as a better prospect than Wendell Moore right now.
    Last edited by kAzE; 12-13-2019 at 04:27 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Jonathan Givony currently has 5 Duke players in the top 60 of his 2020 mock draft:

    18. Vernon Carey
    21. Tre Jones
    32. Wendell Moore
    33. Matthew Hurt
    59. Cassius Stanley

    I believe Tre was an early second round pick #32 or 33 before the 2019 draft on Givony's board.

    Cassius all the way down at 59 is surprising to me. Givony gives pros and cons to the higher rated prospects, but I would really interested in hearing why he's this low on Stanley. I guess his lack of length and age might be a factor, but I thought he would be rated as a better prospect than Wendell Moore right now.
    If I recall correctly, Cassius wasn't listed by Givony or on any mock draft before the season started. He's rising up boards, although no sure thing to go 1st round or even go pro after the season. My read on it is that he's now someone to watch. They'll want to see him be more consistent and to know that he's healthy after the knee injury.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think it was in the 20s or 30s, depending on site. There is a lot of variability in how folks are ranking these guys (understandably so). For example, some still have Hurt in the teens, some have him not on the board.
    The bottom line, to me, on Tre was that there was a very good chance, even a probability, a year ago that he would not be a first round draft pick. Life as a 2nd rounder is a lot less certain. It probably involves much time in the G-league and certainly involves contracts that are not guaranteed and maybe 50% of what you would make as a first round pick. If you have a good chance to play your way into being a near certain first round pick, returning to school is a no-brainer in my opinion.

    It is also worth noting that most folks think the 2020 draft will be significantly weaker than the 2019 one was, making it easier for a guy like Tre to become a first round pick.

    -Jason "I'm sure Tyus also spoke to people he knew around the league to help Tre make the right decision" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Jonathan Givony currently has 5 Duke players in the top 60 of his 2020 mock draft:

    18. Vernon Carey
    21. Tre Jones
    32. Wendell Moore
    33. Matthew Hurt
    59. Cassius Stanley

    I believe Tre was an early second round pick #32 or 33 before the 2019 draft on Givony's board.

    Cassius all the way down at 59 is surprising to me. Givony gives pros and cons to the higher rated prospects, but I would really interested in hearing why he's this low on Stanley. I guess his lack of length and age might be a factor, but I thought he would be rated as a better prospect than Wendell Moore right now.
    I suspect it is somewhat due to inertia. Moore has the better high school resume and the better size/length coming in. So he was rated much higher. Stanley wasn’t highly thought of coming in. It will probably take more time (we have only a few meaningful games) for opinions to change and solidify.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Jonathan Givony currently has 5 Duke players in the top 60 of his 2020 mock draft:

    18. Vernon Carey
    21. Tre Jones
    32. Wendell Moore
    33. Matthew Hurt
    59. Cassius Stanley

    I believe Tre was an early second round pick #32 or 33 before the 2019 draft on Givony's board.

    Cassius all the way down at 59 is surprising to me. Givony gives pros and cons to the higher rated prospects, but I would really interested in hearing why he's this low on Stanley. I guess his lack of length and age might be a factor, but I thought he would be rated as a better prospect than Wendell Moore right now.
    This feels directionally right to me. Vernon and Tre in the first round with the other three working to play themselves into first round picks.

  13. #73
    Seems like the mocks are still highly volatile. Guessing by the end of Jan when conference play really kicks in things will be a bit more consistent across sites.
       

  14. #74
    Who are we thinking leaves this year? Carey and Tre should, but Cassius, Moore, and Hurt don’t seem to be one and dones.
       

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevil16 View Post
    Who are we thinking leaves this year? Carey and Tre should, but Cassius, Moore, and Hurt don’t seem to be one and dones.
    It is still too early to tell about anyone other than Carey and Tre (who are both leaving). Let's see what the next couple months bring. It is worth noting that some guys decide they are ready even though their on-court performance may not make that obvious. Unless you are in the head of Cassius, Wendell, or Matt you really have no idea where these guys are leaning.

    -Jason "I suspect we won't have a good idea about their decisions until they announce" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    It is still too early to tell about anyone other than Carey and Tre (who are both leaving). Let's see what the next couple months bring. It is worth noting that some guys decide they are ready even though their on-court performance may not make that obvious. Unless you are in the head of Cassius, Wendell, or Matt you really have no idea where these guys are leaning.

    -Jason "I suspect we won't have a good idea about their decisions until they announce" Evans
    Trevon Duval is an example of a player who came to Duke with every expectation of being a one-and-done and never wavered in that conviction despite considerable reasons to do so.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    I think Stanley is more likely to leave than Moore because he has NBA athleticism and will look great at the combine and someone will take a chance on him. I know we've talked a lot about his age, that might be a small factor but ultimately it comes down to a.) where each player would be drafted and b.) how much they stand to gain or lose by returning to school. Moore doesn't do any one thing at an elite level, he's a versatile player but not someone who will draw a lot of attention from NBA scouts.

    Hurt is kind of a mystery, he's all over the draft boards. I'd say he's 50/50 to go at this point, but I tend to overestimate the likelihood of players coming back.

  18. #78

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    draft analyses have progressed from giving Vernon no respect to giving him modest but insufficient respect. Yeah, I know all about the role of NBA big men, but I don't think I see 17 better NBA prospects in this draft...I'd buy some Vern stock at this price.

  20. #80
    Feel like Hurt could be playing himself into the first round after his recent performances. Still will need a lot of work to make it at that level, but someone might take him and let him develop for a few years.
       

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