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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    The Wizards say hold my lineup card

    Attachment 9576

    I think right now it is between Washington and Charlotte for worst roster.

    I think the Knicks have a pretty strong top 4 (Dennis Smith, RJ, Kevin Knox, and Mitchell Robinson) that will place them at awful but not god-awful
    I honestly love that lineup so much more than the Hornets. Again I might would take all of them over the Hornets.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out.

    The problem is no one gets to know these kids. Some guys come out with all the hype and believe it is all made for them and they don’t need to do anything. There has to be a balance between them knowing they have the talent but they need work to do and show they are willing to do the work.

    I still hear the stories about the guys who went before MJ. He had the talent but it took years in the NBA before he realized he needed a team around him to win it all. Not all the picks before him were bad but after his realization he became the NBA’s best player ever. Unless you spent hours upon hours with him before the draft there was no way to tell of that kind of stardom.

    I think Zion will be good. His is humble and I think he realizes there is work to do but is his humbleness too much? Will that hold him back? I was very disappointed him and RJ did not get to the final four. Is that an indication he can’t lead an NBA team? If he and RJ could not lead their college team to the great high I am not fully sure he has the magic for the NBA. So I am looking forward for the years to come to how it plays out but I do understand why some people have reservations.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by subzero02 View Post
    Some people thought he was destined to be an all star. Everyone drafted ahead of him not named Joe Smith made at least one all star game. (mydess, stackhouse, and r. Wallace) I know that Calipari was convinced of his future stardom. Leading up to the 1995 draft, a team asked for his opinion on KG. Calipari said Kevin was already better than rising junior Marcus Camby, a 17 year nba player and the #2 pick in the 1996 draft.
    My point was that if (as the original poster said) Garnett and Kobe were prospects on the level of Lebron, Shaq, and Zion they would not have gone 5th and 13th in the draft. I was merely pointed out that the poster was using ex-post-facto analysis of how careers turned out to talk about what kind of prospect Andrew Wiggins was when he was drafted.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman10 View Post
    Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out.

    The problem is no one gets to know these kids. Some guys come out with all the hype and believe it is all made for them and they don’t need to do anything. There has to be a balance between them knowing they have the talent but they need work to do and show they are willing to do the work.

    I still hear the stories about the guys who went before MJ. He had the talent but it took years in the NBA before he realized he needed a team around him to win it all. Not all the picks before him were bad but after his realization he became the NBA’s best player ever. Unless you spent hours upon hours with him before the draft there was no way to tell of that kind of stardom.

    I think Zion will be good. His is humble and I think he realizes there is work to do but is his humbleness too much? Will that hold him back? I was very disappointed him and RJ did not get to the final four. Is that an indication he can’t lead an NBA team? If he and RJ could not lead their college team to the great high I am not fully sure he has the magic for the NBA. So I am looking forward for the years to come to how it plays out but I do understand why some people have reservations.
    I don't quite follow your first paragraph but I think I agree with the gist of your post. I am leery of pointing to other players who were number one busts and saying "wow, peoplw thought they would be as good as Zion!"
    We all loved Zion at Duke, but heck, anything can happen. If anything, the fact that other players as hyped as Zion didn't pan out should be a cautionary tale.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Bringing up the rear. Now all NBA teams have announced a Summer League roster. (I didn't see a China roster reported in the news, but then, I never saw Croatia's roster reported either.)

    Chicago Bulls: They drafted Coby White (UNC) and Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), and surrounded them with a bunch of players who are not from the ACC or making a career comeback. I'm struggling to find the angle here.

    Phoenix Suns: Even without ACC draft picks Cameron Johnson and Ty Jerome -- who were acquired by trade and presumably join the team in a few days -- this is a more interesting lineup. Jalen Lecque skipped college, wasn't drafted, and signed a 4-year deal (2 years guaranteed) with Phoenix. Also listed are Final Four players Jared Harper (Auburn), Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), and Jack Salt (UVA). And let's not forget a couple of assistant coaches: Randy Ayers (formerly of Ohio State) and Steve Blake (formerly of Johnny Rockets).

    Talking points! Take notes, Chicago.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I don't quite follow your first paragraph but I think I agree with the gist of your post.
    I was a quote I was responding to but I didn’t capture the “quote” part.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    We all loved Zion at Duke, but heck, anything can happen. If anything, the fact that other players as hyped as Zion didn't pan out should be a cautionary tale.
    Noone has been as hyped as Zion except for LeBron and IMHO it's really not debatable. Wiggins, AD, none of 'em.

    During draft coverage, they have never cut back to check in on a top draft pick so regularly while the rest of the draft was going on.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    My point was that if (as the original poster said) Garnett and Kobe were prospects on the level of Lebron, Shaq, and Zion they would not have gone 5th and 13th in the draft. I was merely pointed out that the poster was using ex-post-facto analysis of how careers turned out to talk about what kind of prospect Andrew Wiggins was when he was drafted.
    KG was pretty hyped IIRC. He was on the cover of SI and the train was really rolling as the '95 draft approached. I thought he was at the level of Shaq hype, to be honest.

    Kobe not so much.

    FWIW, I never got the hype around Wiggins. I didn't think he was that athletically gifted that it would be a game changer. Looked kind of like another Ricky Davis to me at the time.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman10 View Post
    Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out.

    The problem is no one gets to know these kids. Some guys come out with all the hype and believe it is all made for them and they don’t need to do anything. There has to be a balance between them knowing they have the talent but they need work to do and show they are willing to do the work.

    I still hear the stories about the guys who went before MJ. He had the talent but it took years in the NBA before he realized he needed a team around him to win it all. Not all the picks before him were bad but after his realization he became the NBA’s best player ever. Unless you spent hours upon hours with him before the draft there was no way to tell of that kind of stardom.

    I think Zion will be good. His is humble and I think he realizes there is work to do but is his humbleness too much? Will that hold him back? I was very disappointed him and RJ did not get to the final four. Is that an indication he can’t lead an NBA team? If he and RJ could not lead their college team to the great high I am not fully sure he has the magic for the NBA. So I am looking forward for the years to come to how it plays out but I do understand why some people have reservations.
    Hopefully the stories you hear regarding each player have very little in common.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman10 View Post
    Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out.

    The problem is no one gets to know these kids. Some guys come out with all the hype and believe it is all made for them and they don’t need to do anything. There has to be a balance between them knowing they have the talent but they need work to do and show they are willing to do the work.

    I still hear the stories about the guys who went before MJ. He had the talent but it took years in the NBA before he realized he needed a team around him to win it all. Not all the picks before him were bad but after his realization he became the NBA’s best player ever. Unless you spent hours upon hours with him before the draft there was no way to tell of that kind of stardom.

    I think Zion will be good. His is humble and I think he realizes there is work to do but is his humbleness too much? Will that hold him back? I was very disappointed him and RJ did not get to the final four. Is that an indication he can’t lead an NBA team? If he and RJ could not lead their college team to the great high I am not fully sure he has the magic for the NBA. So I am looking forward for the years to come to how it plays out but I do understand why some people have reservations.
    So Carmelo Anthony won a natty in his only year at Syracuse. How did that turn out for him in the NBA? I don't remember Carmelo advancing to the Eastern or Western finals. Jordan won a natty, but no one would consider that he led UNC that year--a big part, but not a guy that was featured like Zion. Different cases entirely. You may be right that Zion doesn't ascend to Lebron or Kobe status--but what happens in the NCAAs isn't predictive of what will happen in the NBA.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by devilirium View Post
    So Carmelo Anthony won a natty in his only year at Syracuse. How did that turn out for him in the NBA? I don't remember Carmelo advancing to the Eastern or Western finals. Jordan won a natty, but no one would consider that he led UNC that year--a big part, but not a guy that was featured like Zion. Different cases entirely. You may be right that Zion doesn't ascend to Lebron or Kobe status--but what happens in the NCAAs isn't predictive of what will happen in the NBA.
    What about when Kawhi led his, ummm, never mind.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Plenty of truly great NBA players did not lead their college teams anywhere close to NCAA titles. Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, James Harden, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Charles Barkley and on and on and on. Ralph Sampson never made a title game in four seasons. Houston had Clyde Drexler and Hakeem Olajuwon on the same team and couldn't win a title.

    Meanwhile, the list of Final Four MOPs includes such notables as Donald Williams, Miles Simon, Ryan Arcidiacono, Jeff Sheppard, Joel Berry, Anderson Hunt and Corey Brewer, among others.

    Zion Williamson may not live up to the hype. The hype is pretty out of control. But I do not think an excess of humility is going to hold him back.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Plenty of truly great NBA players did not lead their college teams anywhere close to NCAA titles. Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, James Harden, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Charles Barkley and on and on and on. Ralph Sampson never made a title game in four seasons. Houston had Clyde Drexler and Hakeem Olajuwon on the same team and couldn't win a title.

    Meanwhile, the list of Final Four MOPs includes such notables as Donald Williams, Miles Simon, Ryan Arcidiacono, Jeff Sheppard, Joel Berry, Anderson Hunt and Corey Brewer, among others.

    Zion Williamson may not live up to the hype. The hype is pretty out of control. But I do not think an excess of humility is going to hold him back.
    There's also a big difference between speaking with humility off the court and playing with it on the court. There is nothing humble about his game; he's a self professed killer who plays with a consistent level of aggression that 99.99% of players never approach.

  14. #94
    Ibrahima Faye got 8 fouls in 13 minutes for the Heat in their 73-65 win, but none of them were on the Jimmer after he left the Warriors to preserve himself for overseas play:
    https://www.nba.com/games/20190703/MIAGSW#/boxscore

    If we were to care about results at all, the Lakers did beat the Kings in exciting fashion 99-97:
    https://www.nba.com/games/20190703/LALSAC#/boxscore

    No Marques as the Cavaliers lost to the Grizzlies 81-68:
    https://www.nba.com/games/20190703/CLEMEM#/boxscore

    Josh Sharma won the foul ratio contest with 7 in 10 minutes in an 84-81 win for the Jazz over the Spurs:
    https://www.nba.com/games/20190703/SASUTA#/boxscore

    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Bringing up the rear. Now all NBA teams have announced a Summer League roster. (I didn't see a China roster reported in the news, but then, I never saw Croatia's roster reported either.)

    Chicago Bulls: They drafted Coby White (UNC) and Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), and surrounded them with a bunch of players who are not from the ACC or making a career comeback. I'm struggling to find the angle here.

    Phoenix Suns: Even without ACC draft picks Cameron Johnson and Ty Jerome -- who were acquired by trade and presumably join the team in a few days -- this is a more interesting lineup. Jalen Lecque skipped college, wasn't drafted, and signed a 4-year deal (2 years guaranteed) with Phoenix. Also listed are Final Four players Jared Harper (Auburn), Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), and Jack Salt (UVA). And let's not forget a couple of assistant coaches: Randy Ayers (formerly of Ohio State) and Steve Blake (formerly of Johnny Rockets).

    Talking points! Take notes, Chicago.
    I do think that it's important to note that Wendell is having surgery that will keep him out for a while, leaving him unable to play for the Bulls now, but he is supposed to be ready for training camp.

    The Grizzlies have announced their Las Vegas roster although of course Grayson could still play post-trade:
    https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/m...-roster-190703

    The Wizards also added to their roster thanks to the Sixers, announcing it officially after releasing a roster to the media:
    https://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-...-league-roster

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Bringing up the rear. Now all NBA teams have announced a Summer League roster. (I didn't see a China roster reported in the news, but then, I never saw Croatia's roster reported either.)

    Chicago Bulls: They drafted Coby White (UNC) and Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), and surrounded them with a bunch of players who are not from the ACC or making a career comeback. I'm struggling to find the angle here.

    Phoenix Suns: Even without ACC draft picks Cameron Johnson and Ty Jerome -- who were acquired by trade and presumably join the team in a few days -- this is a more interesting lineup. Jalen Lecque skipped college, wasn't drafted, and signed a 4-year deal (2 years guaranteed) with Phoenix. Also listed are Final Four players Jared Harper (Auburn), Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), and Jack Salt (UVA). And let's not forget a couple of assistant coaches: Randy Ayers (formerly of Ohio State) and Steve Blake (formerly of Johnny Rockets).

    Talking points! Take notes, Chicago.
    Well, Mokoka was thought to be a potential second round pick this year and recently signed a two-way contract with the Bulls. Hutchinson was their other first-rounder last year. Harrison and Lemon were both Bulls players last season and are competing for the few bench slots remaining. Mulder is on the Bulls’ G-league affiliate. They would have had Carter too but he suffered an injury and is out of action the rest of the summer. Plus the two most recent draft picks. That is 7-8 guys on the roster who are Bulls players, which is usually about as much as should be expected.

    From there, it is usually a “who can you find that is willing to be a backup in Summer League situation. That usually means local kids or guys who have the same agent as some of your players. Townes is a local product (Loyola) and Hall was an Illinois kid who was a big-time scorer at Montana State. My guess the other five are just guys who were available.
    Last edited by CDu; 07-04-2019 at 08:56 AM.

  16. #96
    Pretty sure Zion's summer league debut is on ESPN at 9:30 tonight.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Pretty sure Zion's summer league debut is on ESPN at 9:30 tonight.
    Tomorrow night. 9:30 Eastern vs RJ and the Knicks
    Coach K on Kyle Singler - "What position does he play? ... He plays winner."

    "Duke is never the underdog" - Quinn Cook

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    Tomorrow night. 9:30 Eastern vs RJ and the Knicks
    Well, poop.

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Saw Amile and Mo Bamba at the Wynn yesterday (and the rest of the Magic team). Looked like they were having a great time.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Yep, no games this holiday. The undercards in Sacramento and Salt Lake City ended yesterday. The main event in Las Vegas starts tomorrow.

    There are a lot of teams (32) and a lot of games (83). If you need a point of entry...

    Former Duke Players

    RJ Barrett, New York Knicks
    Marques Bolden, Cleveland Cavaliers
    Trevon Duval, Houston Rockets
    Frank Jackson, New Orleans Pelicans
    Amile Jefferson, Orlando Magic
    Gary Trent Jr., Portland Trail Blazers
    Antonio Vrankovic, Croatia
    Zion Williamson, New Orleans Pelicans

    Notes: As CDu stated above, Wendell Carter Jr. (Chicago Bulls) is out of action this summer. Cam Reddish (Atlanta Hawks) is recovering from injury. Neither Marvin Bagley nor Harry Giles (Sacramento Kings) were listed for the Las Vegas trip. Grayson Allen (Memphis Grizzlies) officially becomes part of the team on Saturday, and could be added then.

    Former UVA Players (we have some UVA fans here, so why not?)

    Kyle Guy, Sacramento Kings
    Devon Hall, Oklahoma City Thunder
    London Perrantes, New Orleans Pelicans
    Jack Salt, Phoenix Suns

    Notes: De'Andre Hunter (Atlanta Hawks) and Ty Jerome (Phoenix Suns) could be added once their trades are official.

    Former UNC Players (if you're into hate-watching, or light mockery)

    Tony Bradley, Utah Jazz
    Isaiah Hicks, Charlotte Hornets
    Nassir Little, Portland Trail Blazers
    Luke Maye, Milwaukee Bucks
    Kennedy Meeks, Charlotte Hornets
    Theo Pinson, Brooklyn Nets
    Coby White, Chicago Bulls
    Kenny Williams, San Antonio Spurs

    Note: Cameron Johnson (Phoenix Suns) could be added once that insane draft day trade is complete.

    Other Former ACC Players (probably incomplete)

    Deng Adel (Louisville), Houston Rockets
    Zach Auguste (Notre Dame), Portland Trail Blazers
    Dwayne Bacon (FSU), Charlotte Hornets
    Tyus Battle (Syracuse), Minnesota Timberwolves
    Jaron Blossomgame (Clemson), Cleveland Cavaliers
    Ky Bowman (Boston College), Golden State Warriors
    Oshae Brissett (Syracuse), Los Angeles Clippers
    Bruce Brown (Miami), Detroit Pistons
    Rion Brown (Miami), Denver Nuggets
    Phil Cofer (FSU), Atlanta Hawks
    Bonzie Colson (Notre Dame), Milwaukee Bucks
    Torin Dorn (NC State), Charlotte Hornets
    Matt Farrell (Notre Dame), Milwaukee Bucks
    Donte Grantham (Clemson), Oklahoma City Thunder
    Jay Henderson (Louisville), Indiana Pacers
    Dewan Hernandez (Miami), Toronto Raptors
    Ahmed Hill (Virginia Tech), Brooklyn Nets
    Jaylen Hoard (Wake Forest), Portland Trail Blazers
    Jaylen Johnson (Louisville), Indiana Pacers
    Mfiondu Kabengele (FSU), Los Angeles Clippers
    Christ Koumadje (FSU), Philadelphia 76ers
    VJ King (Louisville), New York Knicks
    Anthony Lawrence (Miami), Cleveland Cavaliers
    Terance Mann (FSU), Los Angeles Clippers
    Codi Miller-McIntyre (Wake Forest), Los Angeles Lakers
    Doral Moore (Wake Forest), Memphis Grizzlies
    Josh Okogie (Georgia Tech), Minnesota Timberwolves
    Davon Reed (Miami), Golden State Warriors
    Marcquise Reed (Clemson), Detroit Pistons
    Malachi Richardson (Syracuse), Golden State Warriors
    Jerome Robinson (Boston College), Los Angeles Clippers
    Elijah Thomas (Clemson), Charlotte Hornets
    Lonnie Walker IV (Miami), San Antonio Spurs
    Andrew White (Syracuse), New York Knicks

    Notes: Looking forward to adding Nickeil Alexander-Walker (Virginia Tech, New Orleans Pelicans).

    Other 2019 NBA Draft Picks

    Ignas Brazdeikis (Michigan), New York Knicks
    Nicolas Claxton (Georgia), Brooklyn Nets
    Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), Chicago Bulls
    Rui Hachimura (Gonzaga), Washington Wizards
    Jaylen Hands (UCLA), Brooklyn Nets
    Tyler Herro (Kentucky), Miami Heat
    Justin James (Wyoming), Sacramento Kings
    Keldon Johnson (Kentucky), San Antonio Spurs
    Romeo Langford (Indiana), Boston Celtics
    Cody Martin (Nevada), Charlotte Hornets
    Jaylen Nowell (Washington), Minnesota Timberwolves
    Eric Paschall (Villanova), Golden State Warriors
    Jordan Poole (Michigan), Golden State Warriors
    Kevin Porter Jr. (USC), Cleveland Cavaliers
    Admiral Schofield (Tennessee), Washington Wizards
    Marial Shayok (Iowa State), Philadelphia 76ers
    PJ Washington (Kentucky), Charlotte Hornets
    Tremont Waters (LSU), Boston Celtics
    Grant Williams (Tennessee), Boston Celtics
    Dylan Windler (Belmont), Cleveland Cavaliers

    Notes: Waiting on trades for first-rounders Jarrett Culver (Texas Tech, Minnesota Timberwolves); Jaxson Hayes (Texas, New Orleans Pelicans); Matisse Thybulle (Washington, Philadelphia 76ers); Brandon Clarke (Gonzaga, Memphis Grizzlies); Darius Bazley (No college, Oklahoma City Thunder).

    Other Former NCAA Standouts (somewhat subjective)

    Trevon Bluiett (Xavier), New Orleans Pelicans
    Phil Booth (Villanova), Cleveland Cavaliers
    Jordan Caroline (Nevada), Los Angeles Lakers
    Semaj Christon (Xavier), Sacramento Kings
    Aubrey Dawkins (UCF), New Orleans Pelicans
    Carsen Edwards (Purdue), Boston Celtics
    Tacko Fall (UCF), Boston Celtics
    Wenyen Gabriel (Kentucky), Sacramento Kings
    Jared Harper (Auburn), Phoenix Suns
    Louis King (Oregon), Detroit Pistons
    Jock Landale (St. Mary's), Milwaukee Bucks
    Jairus Lyles (UMBC), Utah Jazz
    JP Macura (Xavier), Charlotte Hornets
    Fletcher Magee (Wofford), Milwaukee Bucks
    Frank Mason III (Kansas), Sacramento Kings
    Matt McQuaid (Michigan State), Detroit Pistons
    Matt Mooney (Texas Tech), Atlanta Hawks
    Zach Norvell Jr. (Gonzaga), Los Angeles Lakers
    Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), Phoenix Suns
    Shamorie Ponds (St. John's), Houston Rockets
    Caleb Swanigan (Purdue), Sacramento Kings
    Reid Travis (Kentucky), Atlanta Hawks
    Dean Wade (Kansas State), Cleveland Cavaliers
    Nick Ward (Michigan State), Atlanta Hawks
    Robert Williams (Texas A&M), Boston Celtics

    At a certain point I had to stop. I left off international players and quite a few NBA Draft second-rounders.

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