2019 NBA Summer Free Agency/Trades

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Bill Simmons helped turn a lot of Celtics fans against Kyrie. It’s amazing how much one guy with a prominent platform from which to express his views can affect people’s perceptions.

It's not just Simmons. Most ESPN talking heads have determined that Kyrie is "not a leader." Also, he can't be "the guy" on a championship team.
I think it is too early to determine any of these things, but the Celtics experiment certainly seems not to have worked.

[budwom]

It's not just Simmons. Most ESPN talking heads have determined that Kyrie is "not a leader." Also, he can't be "the guy" on a championship team.
I think it is too early to determine any of these things, but the Celtics experiment certainly seems not to have worked.

Yes, forget the notion that others are responsible for the anti Kyrie talk...I loved watching him early in the season, but as the season wore on, Kyrie just became a total jerk, as much as it pains me to say it. He really
behaved badly, on a good team with a great coach and great organization...Everyone was on the Kyrie bandwagon early until he methodically pushed them off (including me)...really a poor showing.

Hopefully he learns from this.

[Indoor66]

Yes, forget the notion that others are responsible for the anti Kyrie talk...I loved watching him early in the season, but as the season wore on, Kyrie just became a total jerk, as much as it pains me to say it. He really
behaved badly, on a good team with a great coach and great organization...Everyone was on the Kyrie bandwagon early until he methodically pushed them off (including me)...really a poor showing.

Hopefully he learns from this.

The whole Celtics situation has become a dumpster fire. Why do we assume that the coach has no cause/effect role in this?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yes, forget the notion that others are responsible for the anti Kyrie talk...I loved watching him early in the season, but as the season wore on, Kyrie just became a total jerk, as much as it pains me to say it. He really
behaved badly, on a good team with a great coach and great organization...Everyone was on the Kyrie bandwagon early until he methodically pushed them off (including me)...really a poor showing.

Hopefully he learns from this.

Couldn’t agree more. There were a lot of Celtic issues; Kylie was undoubtedly #1. He is a phenomenal player with bad leadership skills and an even worse attitude.

Hope we finds what he’s looking for, but Kyrie doesn’t seem to be the kind of guy who is just content.

[subzero02]

Yes, forget the notion that others are responsible for the anti Kyrie talk...I loved watching him early in the season, but as the season wore on, Kyrie just became a total jerk, as much as it pains me to say it. He really
behaved badly, on a good team with a great coach and great organization...Everyone was on the Kyrie bandwagon early until he methodically pushed them off (including me)...really a poor showing.

Hopefully he learns from this.

Kyrie has made himself an easy target for criticism but he's shouldering too much of the blame from the Boston fanbase. None of us were in the locker room but I'd venture to wager that the bitterness from players who had more prominent roles during last year's playoff run was a major contributing factor in the Celtics' shortcomings. Kyrie's off court behavior likely added fuel to the fire. Judging from the season results and the off season turmoil, it appears that Stevens handled the situation poorly and deserves a good amount of blame as well.

[CDu]

Kyrie has made himself an easy target for criticism but he's shouldering too much of the blame from the Boston fanbase. None of us were in the locker room but I'd venture to wager that the bitterness from players who had more prominent roles during last year's playoff run was a major contributing factor in the Celtics' shortcomings. Kyrie's off court behavior likely added fuel to the fire. Judging from the season results and the off season turmoil, it appears that Stevens handled the situation poorly and deserves a good amount of blame as well.

I agree that it is fair to say there is blame to go around. But, when you are the face of the franchise, the blame lies mostly with you. Kyrie wanted to be the man and the leader, but with that comes the responsibility/blame when things don't go well. Things didn't go well, and he apparently was the cause of some of the friction within the locker room. As the star, that's going to get you a hefty share of the blame.

Now, I'm definitely not going to write Irving off as a superstar and team leader forever. He's still in the early part of his prime, and Boston was his first real opportunity to lead a contending team. Hopefully he can learn from this and do a better job at his next stop (assuming he does leave for Brooklyn or New York or LA). But I think he's probably getting pretty close to the appropriate amount of the blame for this season.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The whole Celtics situation has become a dumpster fire. Why do we assume that the coach has no cause/effect role in this?

Duh. Stevens is K 2.0 and is infallible.

/sarcasm
//mostly

[CDu]

Duh. Stevens is K 2.0 and is infallible.

/sarcasm
//mostly

Yeah, I'd put the blame primarily on Irving (poor/anti leadership) and Stevens (poor job of coaching and managing the egos in the locker room).

Seems like that may be a weakness for Stevens - managing egos. His success has largely (entirely?) been when he's had blue-collar, no-nonsense, overachiever type teams that buy in. It can require a much different skill set managing a team with superstar talent and superstar egos.

I don't think Phil Jackson could do what Stevens did in his early Boston years or what Stevens did at Butler. Conversely, I'm not sure Stevens would be well-suited to do what Jackson did in Chicago or LA.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I agree that it is fair to say there is blame to go around. But, when you are the face of the franchise, the blame lies mostly with you. Kyrie wanted to be the man and the leader, but with that comes the responsibility/blame when things don't go well. Things didn't go well, and he apparently was the cause of some of the friction within the locker room. As the star, that's going to get you a hefty share of the blame.

Now, I'm definitely not going to write Irving off as a superstar and team leader forever. He's still in the early part of his prime, and Boston was his first real opportunity to lead a contending team. Hopefully he can learn from this and do a better job at his next stop (assuming he does leave for Brooklyn or New York or LA). But I think he's probably getting pretty close to the appropriate amount of the blame for this season.

The only issue I have with this post is Kyrie is a superstar. For me, a superstar has nothing to do with maturity nor leadership. I has to do with talent and popularity. And Kyrie is arguably one of the most popular players in the league (amongst fans, not other players). This article is two years old, but it discusses who Kyries are the second best selling bball shoe: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad...a-players/amp/

I honestly have my doubts with Kyrie as a leader. As long as he continues being weird and calling out teammates, it'll be challenging for him to be seen as a leader. And maybe he never wants to or will be. I mean, look at Kevin Durant. The dude is the top talent on a top 3 team but no one would call him a leader.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, I'd put the blame primarily on Irving (poor/anti leadership) and Stevens (poor job of coaching and managing the egos in the locker room).

Seems like that may be a weakness for Stevens - managing egos. His success has largely (entirely?) been when he's had blue-collar, no-nonsense, overachiever type teams that buy in. It can require a much different skill set managing a team with superstar talent and superstar egos.

I don't think Phil Jackson could do what Stevens did in his early Boston years or what Stevens did at Butler. Conversely, I'm not sure Stevens would be well-suited to do what Jackson did in Chicago or LA.

Stevens deserves a ton of blame. Rozier had this scathing interview where he said Stevens wanted to run everything through Kyrie and Hayward. Sure, that makes sense if these two players are head-and-shoulders above the rest of the team, but Horford, Tatum, and Brown are all really good players.

[CDu]

The only issue I have with this post is Kyrie is a superstar. For me, a superstar has nothing to do with maturity nor leadership. I has to do with talent and popularity. And Kyrie is arguably one of the most popular players in the league (amongst fans, not other players). This article is two years old, but it discusses who Kyries are the second best selling bball shoe: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad...a-players/amp/

I honestly have my doubts with Kyrie as a leader. As long as he continues being weird and calling out teammates, it'll be challenging for him to be seen as a leader. And maybe he never wants to or will be. I mean, look at Kevin Durant. The dude is the top talent on a top 3 team but no one would call him a leader.

I have no disagreement with this whatsoever. Kyrie is definitely a superstar, didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was more focusing on the leader/face of the franchise role.

It definitely seems like Irving is just a weird dude, a "try too hard to look intellectual" type of guy. And he admittedly is moody. You're right that neither the weirdness nor the moodiness are things that work well in a leadership role. So it may very well turn out that - like KD - leadership is never a strongsuit. I'm just saying that sometimes a guy can change with time and experience.

Would the irony of ironies be for Irving to go join the Lakers with LeBron and AD? This would hinge on two of the following three happening: him taking a paycut, AD waiving his trade kicker, and the Lakers finding salary dumps for their 3 fringe roster guys. But that would seem an almost perfect fit on the basketball court and would take all the leadership pressure off. Not that I think this would happen at all. More likely that he'd try to get to the Clippers or Brooklyn/Knicks. But an entertaining thought experiment.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I have no disagreement with this whatsoever. Kyrie is definitely a superstar, didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was more focusing on the leader/face of the franchise role.

It definitely seems like Irving is just a weird dude, a "try too hard to look intellectual" type of guy. And he admittedly is moody. You're right that neither the weirdness nor the moodiness are things that work well in a leadership role. So it may very well turn out that - like KD - leadership is never a strongsuit. I'm just saying that sometimes a guy can change with time and experience.

Would the irony of ironies be for Irving to go join the Lakers with LeBron and AD? This would hinge on two of the following three happening: him taking a paycut, AD waiving his trade kicker, and the Lakers finding salary dumps for their 3 fringe roster guys. But that would seem an almost perfect fit on the basketball court and would take all the leadership pressure off. Not that I think this would happen at all. More likely that he'd try to get to the Clippers or Brooklyn/Knicks. But an entertaining thought experiment.

To me, this means Kyrie accepts that he isn't a leader and doesn't desire to become one. Which, like KD, is completely fine. But his whole "I want out of Cleveland so I can lead a team" and his whole marketing image in Boston goes out the door.

I think Kyrie goes to the Nets: 1) he can start over with a new team, 2) NJ is home, and the Nets are more New Jersey than any other team, 3) he can once again try to "lead" a team. To me, the issue is his relationship with D'Angelo Russell. A really good player on the court, Russell also has a few maturity issues. I'd give it <18 months before either Russell or Kyrie ask for a trade.

[CDu]

To me, this means Kyrie accepts that he isn't a leader and doesn't desire to become one. Which, like KD, is completely fine. But his whole "I want out of Cleveland so I can lead a team" and his whole marketing image in Boston goes out the door.

I think Kyrie goes to the Nets: 1) he can start over with a new team, 2) NJ is home, and the Nets are more New Jersey than any other team, 3) he can once again try to "lead" a team. To me, the issue is his relationship with D'Angelo Russell. A really good player on the court, Russell also has a few maturity issues. I'd give it <18 months before either Russell or Kyrie ask for a trade.

Yes, I also think Brooklyn is the most likely destination. And I doubt Kyrie would swallow the humble pie and become the third-fiddle (even temporarily, as in the not-too-distant future it would be his and AD's team). It was just a fun thought exercise.

[English]

To me, this means Kyrie accepts that he isn't a leader and doesn't desire to become one. Which, like KD, is completely fine. But his whole "I want out of Cleveland so I can lead a team" and his whole marketing image in Boston goes out the door.

I think Kyrie goes to the Nets: 1) he can start over with a new team, 2) NJ is home, and the Nets are more New Jersey than any other team, 3) he can once again try to "lead" a team. To me, the issue is his relationship with D'Angelo Russell. A really good player on the court, Russell also has a few maturity issues. I'd give it <18 months before either Russell or Kyrie ask for a trade.

I think it's commonly accepted knowledge among NBA analysts that Kyrie to the Nets (highly likely) would mean that Russell is moving on.

In other news, Khris Middleton has declined his player option with the Bucks, but is working with the team to reach a long-term deal. The black pigeon is doing the same with the Kings after declining his option. Of course, that's what was the initial plan with the C's and Horford, so sometimes those plans change.

ETA: A backcourt with Kyrie and Russell would be comically bad on defense. I kind of want to see it. FWIW (probably not much), the few Nets fans I know all prefer Kyrie stay out of Brooklyn.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Bill Simmons helped turn a lot of Celtics fans against Kyrie. It’s amazing how much one guy with a prominent platform from which to express his views can affect people’s perceptions.

Not just in sports.

[JasonEvans]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

[scottdude8]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

Damn, beat me to it by moments!

Sort of odd for Utah to target Conley since Donovan Mitchell is a PG, unless they want to put him off the ball with a pass first PG in Conley. This seems like a great deal for Memphis though, getting solid young players and a couple of picks for a guy they needed to get rid of since they aren't going to compete now, not to mention they're getting Ja Morant. Hopefully this gives Grayson the opportunity to play right away (possibly alongside Morant!) for a slightly worse team.

[English]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

The deal also includes a future first rounder.

Damn, beat me to it by moments!

Sort of odd for Utah to target Conley since Donovan Mitchell is a PG, unless they want to put him off the ball with a pass first PG in Conley. This seems like a great deal for Memphis though, getting solid young players and a couple of picks for a guy they needed to get rid of since they aren't going to compete now, not to mention they're getting Ja Morant. Hopefully this gives Grayson the opportunity to play right away (possibly alongside Morant!) for a slightly worse team.

LOLz. The Grizz are going to be slightly worse than the Jazz like the Washington Generals were slightly worse than the Globetrotters.

[CDu]

Damn, beat me to it by moments!

Sort of odd for Utah to target Conley since Donovan Mitchell is a PG, unless they want to put him off the ball with a pass first PG in Conley. This seems like a great deal for Memphis though, getting solid young players and a couple of picks for a guy they needed to get rid of since they aren't going to compete now, not to mention they're getting Ja Morant. Hopefully this gives Grayson the opportunity to play right away (possibly alongside Morant!) for a slightly worse team.

Mitchell isn't a PG at all. He's averaged 3.7 assists and 4.2 assists per game in his two seasons, with 2.7 turnovers and 2.8 turnovers per game.

The Jazz's PG the last two years was Ricky Rubio. Mitchell was and is their SG.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

Confirms Grizz are drafting Morant with the #2 pick.