A Modest Suggestion for the Pelicans

[kAzE]

Gotta be honest, I don't quite understand this move.

Yes, New Orleans lacked shooting, and JJ is one of the very best. But he's 35 now, way out of step with New Orleans' competitive window.

Is New Orleans currently a playoff team? Do they want to be? JJ is the kind of missing-piece veteran that can put a contender over the hump, but I don't know if it really moves the needle to have him help New Orleans win 35 games instead of 30. Why not just give all that playing time to Frank Jackson, who is now stuck behind Lonzo Ball and Jrue Holiday? Why the push for the playoffs in Year 1 of Zion...it will only make it harder to add co-stars via the draft.

As for JJ, I'm really surprised a contender didn't offer comparable money. This is likely his last two seasons of consistent, 20-ish minutes per game for a contender, and he can make a difference. Really surprised there wasn't a better offer--this feels like a bit of a wasted opportunity.

So I'm excited for five Blue Devils on the Pelicans...but it doesn't really make sense to me.

I think you're underestimating how good this team is. 35 wins would be a disaster with the talent they have. This is a playoff team already. The western conference lost a good bit of talent. Everyone is saying that the East could actually be stronger for the first time in generations. The entire league is wide open this upcoming season (unless Kawhi does the unthinkable and signs with the Lakers).

Back to Pelicans, though. This is legitimately one of the deepest rosters in the entire league, quite literally 3 deep with rotation quality NBA players at every position:

PG: Lonzo Ball, Frank Jackson, Nickeil Alexander-Walker
SG: Jrue Holiday, JJ Redick, E’Twaun Moore
SF: Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, Kenrich Williams
PF: Zion Williamson, Davis Bertans, Christian Wood
C: Derrick Favors, Jahlil Okafor, Jaxson Hayes

With the one caveat being Brandon Ingram's health, that team should win between 42 and 50 games. It should definitely be one of the best defensive teams in the league. Ball/Holiday is quite likely the best defensive backcourt in the NBA. Zion, Ingram, Hart, Moore, and Favors are all considered plus defenders. I would 100% bet on them making the playoffs and possibly getting to the 2nd round.

JJ is a very key piece for this team as the key floor spacer. This is going to be one of the most heavily followed teams in the league next year, and as a future media guy, I think JJ did really well for himself. It's a great fit on both sides. It's not a title contender, but he's getting paid well to be a key role player on a playoff team.

[sagegrouse]

Remind me, was Trajan actually on a basketball scholarship? I recall he was drafted for baseball (and signed?)

My answer is a little different from Nugget's. I believe his Duke tuition, fees, etc. were paid by the Chargers. He also received their munificent minor league pay of a few bucks a month during season. I can't remember if the Chargers deal started day one, but it may have, since they first discovered Trajan throwing with his dad while visiting Duke in HS.

[sagegrouse]

Gotta be honest, I don't quite understand this move.

Yes, New Orleans lacked shooting, and JJ is one of the very best. But he's 35 now, way out of step with New Orleans' competitive window.

Is New Orleans currently a playoff team? Do they want to be? JJ is the kind of missing-piece veteran that can put a contender over the hump, but I don't know if it really moves the needle to have him help New Orleans win 35 games instead of 30. Why not just give all that playing time to Frank Jackson, who is now stuck behind Lonzo Ball and Jrue Holiday? Why the push for the playoffs in Year 1 of Zion...it will only make it harder to add co-stars via the draft.

As for JJ, I'm really surprised a contender didn't offer comparable money. This is likely his last two seasons of consistent, 20-ish minutes per game for a contender, and he can make a difference. Really surprised there wasn't a better offer--this feels like a bit of a wasted opportunity.

So I'm excited for five Blue Devils on the Pelicans...but it doesn't really make sense to me.

There are three reasons for the Pels to sign JJ, IMHO (where the H was waylaid along Bourbon Street in 1981):

1. His shooting.

2. His team defense.

3. His work ethic, which is reportedly astounding and sends a strong message of professionalism to younger players.

For a young team, #3 is a big deal.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse
'By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the Duke players are traded before opening day'

[Truth&Justise]

I think you're underestimating how good this team is. 35 wins would be a disaster with the talent they have. This is a playoff team already. The western conference lost a good bit of talent. Everyone is saying that the East could actually be stronger for the first time in generations. The entire league is wide open this upcoming season (unless Kawhi does the unthinkable and signs with the Lakers).

Back to Pelicans, though. This is legitimately one of the deepest rosters in the entire league, quite literally 3 deep with rotation quality NBA players at every position:

PG: Lonzo Ball, Frank Jackson, Nickeil Alexander-Walker
SG: Jrue Holiday, JJ Redick, E’Twaun Moore
SF: Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, Kenrich Williams
PF: Zion Williamson, Davis Bertans, Christian Wood
C: Derrick Favors, Jaxson Hayes, Jahlil Okafor

With the one caveat being Brandon Ingram's health, that team should win between 42 and 50 games. It should definitely be one of the best defensive teams in the league. Ball/Holiday is quite likely the best defensive backcourt in the NBA. Zion, Ingram, Hart, Moore, and Favors are all considered plus defenders. I would 100% bet on them making the playoffs and possibly getting to the 2nd round.

JJ is a very key piece for this team as the key floor spacer. This is going to be one of the most heavily followed teams in the league next year, and as a future media guy, I think JJ did really well for himself. It's a great fits on both sides. It's not a title contender, but he's getting paid well to be a key role player on a playoff team.

I love your enthusiasm for the Pelicans's roster, but I just don't see it. Their best player, right now, is Jrue Holiday. He's a fine player. Maybe Zion will prove to be better than him as a rookie, but most guys take time, and most also hit a wall playing an 82-game season. So from a talent-level, I think they're a step behind.

Then let's look at fit. The starting lineup lacks shooting, which remains the single most important factor for an offense in 2019. JJ obviously helps, but you can't play him and Jrue and Lonzo together. And I don't agree with your assessment that this is one of the deepest teams--while Jackson, Hart and Redick are good bench players, Okafor hasn't proven he can contribute consistently, and the rest are either nonfactors (Christian Wood, Kenrich Williams, Darris Betrans) or rookies not expected to contribute from day 1 (Hayes, Alexander-Walker).

Finally, there's the competition. I don't see them above the Nuggets, Blazers, Lakers, Rockets, Jazz, Warriors, Thunder or Spurs. That's eight playoff teams. Not to mention other teams competing for those final playoff spots like the Clippers (still in the hunt for Kawhi), Kings and Mavericks, all of whom have more established NBA talent.

So those are the reasons I don't believe the current Pelicans are a playoff team.

But let's take a step back from there. Should they be trying to be a playoff team? This will probably be the only year that expectations are low. If New Orleans didn't make the playoffs with Anthony Davis, then no one is expecting them to in Year 1 of Zion. That's a good thing! Keep the pressure low, play the rookies a lot, and go back to the lottery (where you won't be for a while) to try to find Zion a true co-star. Signing Redick marginally interferes with that plan because it takes playing time away from Frank Jackson and Nickeil Alexander-Walker. It also worsens the Pelican's lottery odds and makes it tempting for management to sacrifice something of actual long-term value at the trade deadline.

The last part of this is personal: I was thrilled to see JJ improbably building steam in the late stages of his career, and this just seems like a waste to me. Would have loved to see him back in the playoffs, trying to help a true contender win a title.

[OldPhiKap]

And 4 of those years are JJ so he gets half the beignets as far as I'm concerned.

If you're willing to take the beignets away from Zion, you're a brave man.

[OldPhiKap]

My answer is a little different from Nugget's. I believe his Duke tuition, fees, etc. were paid by the Chargers. He also received their munificent minor league pay of a few bucks a month during season. I can't remember if the Chargers deal started day one, but it may have, since they first discovered Trajan throwing with his dad while visiting Duke in HS.

I think you mean the Padres.

[JetpackJesus]

Just wanted to point out that this happened:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...k-2-years-265m

Good call!

JJ said he almost signed with the Pacers last offseason. The 76ers changed their offer at the last minute, so he came back. I don't think we can say JJ definitely won't leave the east coast.

I would love if he went to NOLA. It would certainly seal the deal on the Pelicans becoming my favorite NBA team, which is probably going to be the case anyway come Friday. I mean, JJ actually got me to cheer for a Philadelphia sports team that wasn't playing against the Patriots. That is no small feat.

The bold also happened. And this deal comes with the added bonus of me not having to like a Philly team anymore!

[MChambers]

My answer is a little different from Nugget's. I believe his Duke tuition, fees, etc. were paid by the Chargers. He also received their munificent minor league pay of a few bucks a month during season. I can't remember if the Chargers deal started day one, but it may have, since they first discovered Trajan throwing with his dad while visiting Duke in HS.

Never knew Trajan played football!

[camion]

Never knew Trajan played football!

How do you think he got his nickname The Trajan Horse?

[Matches]

The Pelicans need a culture change. Last season was very toxic for their culture, and with a host of new players they have a chance to press the reset button. JJ will help tremendously with that. He can also shoot a little bit. I agree it will be hard to play him at the same time as Holiday and Ball but good NBA rotations need 9-10 guys.

[Edouble]

Just wanted to point out that this happened:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...k-2-years-265m

You deserve sporks from everybody. Loving this thread right now.

Gotta be honest, I don't quite understand this move.

Yes, New Orleans lacked shooting, and JJ is one of the very best. But he's 35 now, way out of step with New Orleans' competitive window.

Is New Orleans currently a playoff team? Do they want to be? JJ is the kind of missing-piece veteran that can put a contender over the hump, but I don't know if it really moves the needle to have him help New Orleans win 35 games instead of 30. Why not just give all that playing time to Frank Jackson, who is now stuck behind Lonzo Ball and Jrue Holiday? Why the push for the playoffs in Year 1 of Zion...it will only make it harder to add co-stars via the draft.

As for JJ, I'm really surprised a contender didn't offer comparable money. This is likely his last two seasons of consistent, 20-ish minutes per game for a contender, and he can make a difference. Really surprised there wasn't a better offer--this feels like a bit of a wasted opportunity.

So I'm excited for five Blue Devils on the Pelicans...but it doesn't really make sense to me.

Agree. NOLA will be hard pressed to make the playoffs. I think getting JJ is a win for their team, but I don't understand why JJ would go to the Pels at this point in his career. Makes no sense if he wants a ring.

[kAzE]

I love your enthusiasm for the Pelicans's roster, but I just don't see it. Their best player, right now, is Jrue Holiday. He's a fine player. Maybe Zion will prove to be better than him as a rookie, but most guys take time, and most also hit a wall playing an 82-game season. So from a talent-level, I think they're a step behind.

Then let's look at fit. The starting lineup lacks shooting, which remains the single most important factor for an offense in 2019. JJ obviously helps, but you can't play him and Jrue and Lonzo together. And I don't agree with your assessment that this is one of the deepest teams--while Jackson, Hart and Redick are good bench players, Okafor hasn't proven he can contribute consistently, and the rest are either nonfactors (Christian Wood, Kenrich Williams, Darris Betrans) or rookies not expected to contribute from day 1 (Hayes, Alexander-Walker).

Finally, there's the competition. I don't see them above the Nuggets, Blazers, Lakers, Rockets, Jazz, Warriors, Thunder or Spurs. That's eight playoff teams. Not to mention other teams competing for those final playoff spots like the Clippers (still in the hunt for Kawhi), Kings and Mavericks, all of whom have more established NBA talent.

So those are the reasons I don't believe the current Pelicans are a playoff team.

But let's take a step back from there. Should they be trying to be a playoff team? This will probably be the only year that expectations are low. If New Orleans didn't make the playoffs with Anthony Davis, then no one is expecting them to in Year 1 of Zion. That's a good thing! Keep the pressure low, play the rookies a lot, and go back to the lottery (where you won't be for a while) to try to find Zion a true co-star. Signing Redick marginally interferes with that plan because it takes playing time away from Frank Jackson and Nickeil Alexander-Walker. It also worsens the Pelican's lottery odds and makes it tempting for management to sacrifice something of actual long-term value at the trade deadline.

The last part of this is personal: I was thrilled to see JJ improbably building steam in the late stages of his career, and this just seems like a waste to me. Would have loved to see him back in the playoffs, trying to help a true contender win a title.

Well, for one thing, anything that happened prior to this year with Anthony Davis is irrelevant, because the entire roster is different. I think Ingram is going to have the best year of his career if he's healthy, and when he's right, he's capable of putting big numbers. Zion, Favors, Holiday, and Ball are all starting caliber NBA players who are each not just above average, but outstanding, defensively. Holiday/Zion/Ingram is a playoff worthy big 3 in my opinion.

Okafor was actually pretty good last year. His per 36 min numbers were 19 points and 11 rebounds. He's still not good on defense, but he's definitely at the very least a back up big man capable of producing points. On a team this loaded defensively, he's actually a nice fit as a guy who can really score off the bench.

The guys who you mentioned as non-factors: Kenrich Williams, Christian Wood, and Davis Bertans. Are you sure about that? Bertans is a 40% career 3 point shooter, including 43% last year, when he played 22 minutes a game for a playoff team (the Spurs), starting 12 games. He's literally the most accurate shooting stretch 4 in the league. Christian Wood was a late season acquisition from the Bucks last season, but played 8 games with the Pelicans, averaging 23 minutes per game, 17 points, and 8 rebounds. Williams was a rookie who started 29 games for the Pelicans last season, and was a big, multi-positional defensive wing capable of guarding up to 3 positions, and showing some good flashes of upside. These guys are not non factors. This team won 33 NBA games last year, a good chunk of them without Anthony Davis, relying on guys like Kenrich Williams.

From a JJ perspective, would you rather be making $13 million a year on a young up and coming team or the league minimum on a title contender?

I think JJ solves the shooting problem. Between JJ, Bertans, and E'Twaun Moore, who is an excellent shooter (43% the past 2 seasons), that's 3 very dangerous shooters. Ingram had a down year shooting from 3 this past season (33%), but he shot 39% two years ago. If he's able to get that up to 35%, he's a guy who can stretch the floor, as well. Holiday isn't a sniper, but he's still a career 36% 3 point shooter. Is it the best shooting team in the league? No, but there's enough shooting on this roster to decently space the floor.

[NSDukeFan]

You deserve sporks from everybody. Loving this thread right now.



Agree. NOLA will be hard pressed to make the playoffs. I think getting JJ is a win for their team, but I don't understand why JJ would go to the Pels at this point in his career. Makes no sense if he wants a ring.

Maybe JJ can help lay a foundation of professionalism for the young players so that Duke, I mean New Orleans, can eventually compete for a championship.

[DukeTrinity11]

I love your enthusiasm for the Pelicans's roster, but I just don't see it. Their best player, right now, is Jrue Holiday. He's a fine player. Maybe Zion will prove to be better than him as a rookie, but most guys take time, and most also hit a wall playing an 82-game season. So from a talent-level, I think they're a step behind.

Then let's look at fit. The starting lineup lacks shooting, which remains the single most important factor for an offense in 2019. JJ obviously helps, but you can't play him and Jrue and Lonzo together. And I don't agree with your assessment that this is one of the deepest teams--while Jackson, Hart and Redick are good bench players, Okafor hasn't proven he can contribute consistently, and the rest are either nonfactors (Christian Wood, Kenrich Williams, Darris Betrans) or rookies not expected to contribute from day 1 (Hayes, Alexander-Walker).

Finally, there's the competition. I don't see them above the Nuggets, Blazers, Lakers, Rockets, Jazz, Warriors, Thunder or Spurs. That's eight playoff teams. Not to mention other teams competing for those final playoff spots like the Clippers (still in the hunt for Kawhi), Kings and Mavericks, all of whom have more established NBA talent.

So those are the reasons I don't believe the current Pelicans are a playoff team.

But let's take a step back from there. Should they be trying to be a playoff team? This will probably be the only year that expectations are low. If New Orleans didn't make the playoffs with Anthony Davis, then no one is expecting them to in Year 1 of Zion. That's a good thing! Keep the pressure low, play the rookies a lot, and go back to the lottery (where you won't be for a while) to try to find Zion a true co-star. Signing Redick marginally interferes with that plan because it takes playing time away from Frank Jackson and Nickeil Alexander-Walker. It also worsens the Pelican's lottery odds and makes it tempting for management to sacrifice something of actual long-term value at the trade deadline.

The last part of this is personal: I was thrilled to see JJ improbably building steam in the late stages of his career, and this just seems like a waste to me. Would have loved to see him back in the playoffs, trying to help a true contender win a title.

The Pelicans will be a better team than the Spurs next year.

I'd take the Pelicans starting 5 over the Spurs starting 5.

Lonzo Ball > Dejounte Murray
Jrue Holiday > Derrick White
Brandon Ingram < DeRozan
Zion < Aldridge
Favors > Poetl

Give me a bench of JJ Redick, Josh Hart, E'Twaun Moore and Jahlil Okafor over the Spurs' bench of Forbes, Mills, Bellinelli and Bertans.

[NSDukeFan]

The Pelicans will be a better team than the Spurs next year.

I'd take Lonzo over Dejounte Murray, Holiday over DeRozan, Ingram over Derrick White and Favors over Poetl.

Lonzo Ball > Dejounte Murray
Jrue Holiday > Demar DeRozan
Brandon Ingram > Derrick White
Zion < Aldridge
Favors > Poetl

Give me a bench of JJ Redick, Josh Hart, E'Twaun Moore and Jahlil Okafor over the Spurs' bench of Forbes, Mills, Bellinelli and Bertans.

I’ll take Popovich over Gentry.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Back to Pelicans, though. This is legitimately one of the deepest rosters in the entire league, quite literally 3 deep with rotation quality NBA players at every position:

PG: Lonzo Ball, Frank Jackson, Nickeil Alexander-Walker
SG: Jrue Holiday, JJ Redick, E’Twaun Moore
SF: Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, Kenrich Williams
PF: Zion Williamson, Davis Bertans, Christian Wood
C: Derrick Favors, Jahlil Okafor, Jaxson Hayes

If even for only 15 seconds, it would be fun to see that lineup on the court at the same time. Has it ever happened? Has an NBA team ever had five on the court from the same school, much less the same coach?

[Truth&Justise]

The guys who you mentioned as non-factors: Kenrich Williams, Christian Wood, and Davis Bertans. Are you sure about that? Bertans is a 40% career 3 point shooter, including 43% last year, when he played 22 minutes a game for a playoff team (the Spurs), starting 12 games. He's literally the most accurate shooting stretch 4 in the league.

I think you're mixing up Davis Bertans, the 6'10 PF who is still on the Spurs, with his older brother Dairis Bertans, a 6'4" guard who plays for the Pelicans. Fun fact: they were born in the same city, but in different countries.

Either way, I'm a little less bullish than you on Lonzo's effectiveness and on the impact that Ingram, Zion, and Jahlil will have this year (though I'd be happy to be wrong about the Duke guys, would love if they're all great!). I'm also more impressed with the strengths of the other teams out West. The Pelicans have a great foundation, and they're building well for the future, I just don't think they're a playoff team in 2020.

But it's a matter of opinion, so we'll just have to wait and see.

[kAzE]

I think you're mixing up Davis Bertans, the 6'10 PF who is still on the Spurs, with his older brother Dairis Bertans, a 6'4" guard who plays for the Pelicans. Fun fact: they were born in the same city, but in different countries.

Either way, I'm a little less bullish than you on Lonzo's effectiveness and on the impact that Ingram, Zion, and Jahlil will have this year (though I'd be happy to be wrong about the Duke guys, would love if they're all great!). I'm also more impressed with the strengths of the other teams out West. The Pelicans have a great foundation, and they're building well for the future, I just don't think they're a playoff team in 2020.

But it's a matter of opinion, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Yep, you're totally right. Damn parents naming their kids almost the same thing.

Still, if you're feeling strong enough about it, I'd be willing to wager a pie on the Pelicans making the playoffs. They will most likely lose in the first round to one of the top 3 seeds, but it will be valuable playoffs reps for Zion.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Either way, I'm a little less bullish than you on Lonzo's effectiveness and on the impact that Ingram, Zion, and Jahlil will have this year (though I'd be happy to be wrong about the Duke guys, would love if they're all great!). I'm also more impressed with the strengths of the other teams out West. The Pelicans have a great foundation, and they're building well for the future, I just don't think they're a playoff team in 2020.

But it's a matter of opinion, so we'll just have to wait and see.

I think Zion will take as long to settle into the pro game as he did the college game...which was what, 15 seconds?

[sagegrouse]

JJ obviously helps, but you can't play him and Jrue and Lonzo together. And I don't agree with your assessment that this is one of the deepest teams--while Jackson, Hart and Redick are good bench players, Okafor hasn't proven he can contribute consistently, and the rest are either nonfactors (Christian Wood, Kenrich Williams, Darris Betrans) or rookies not expected to contribute from day 1 (Hayes, Alexander-Walker).

The last part of this is personal: I was thrilled to see JJ improbably building steam in the late stages of his career, and this just seems like a waste to me. Would have loved to see him back in the playoffs, trying to help a true contender win a title.

Redick is a "good bench player?" You might have mentioned that, of the last 412 games he has played, JJ has started 398.