Zion in Litigation over Marketing Contract

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That's what Michael Avenatti claimed (I think...).

Ew. Now I feel gross. I will go back and rethink my everything.

[duke79]

The other silver lining is that we don't have a ff / title banner at risk of being taken down.

As for Frank Jackson, it is pretty evident that some of these guys don't care about the consequences of their actions and how it reflects on the institution.

Is it bad that I just can't really care about this stuff? There was a time when these kinds of things would bother me terribly because of how they might reflect on Duke. Those days are gone. With transfers in and transfers out, and one and dones, and roster turnover and rebuilding, and NIL money, and TV money, and shoe money, and beer money, and promos playing instead of the band, because money... well you get the picture. Does it even matter anymore?

Yea, IF the NCAA does decide to take action, you can argue that Duke doesn't really have much to lose - no final four appearance or national title at stake (but an ACC title and it would hurt a little to lose that) BUT I do think it would be an embarrassment to the university and to Coach K and the entire basketball program and athletic department (especially after the athletic department's statement that they thoroughly vetted Zion and his family before offering him the scholarship - again, this assumes the recent allegations are true), plus it would just give all of the Duke haters out there another reason to trash Duke and Coach K (which is already happening on the IC board).

I gave up a long time ago caring about all of this stuff. I have assumed for years that much, if not all of Div. 1 college basketball (and football) is more or less corrupt, including Duke (see, e.g., the fake classes at UNC). It doesn't surprise me in the least that this might have happened. Given that many of the players on the teams come from poor or lower middle-class backgrounds and that there is now hundreds of millions of dollars sloshing around the system, it is almost inevitable that the players and their families are going to want some of that money, for their essential services. And why not? They're the oil that makes the wheel go round. Everyone else is just feasting on their talents.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yea, IF the NCAA does decide to take action, you can argue that Duke doesn't really have much to lose - no final four appearance or national title at stake (but an ACC title and it would hurt a little to lose that) BUT I do think it would be an embarrassment to the university and to Coach K and the entire basketball program and athletic department (especially after the athletic department's statement that they thoroughly vetted Zion and his family before offering him the scholarship - again, this assumes the recent allegations are true), plus it would just give all of the Duke haters out there another reason to trash Duke and Coach K (which is already happening on the IC board).

I gave up a long time ago caring about all of this stuff. I have assumed for years that much, if not all of Div. 1 college basketball (and football) is more or less corrupt, including Duke (see, e.g., the fake classes at UNC). It doesn't surprise me in the least that this might have happened. Given that many of the players on the teams come from poor or lower middle-class backgrounds and that there is now hundreds of millions of dollars sloshing around the system, it is almost inevitable that the players and their families are going to want some of that money, for their essential services. And why not? They're the oil that makes the wheel go round. Everyone else is just feasting on their talents.

I also assume some level of this happens everywhere now. It doesn't mean that if it comes full circle and it's proven that Duke had some knowledge, that I won't be extremely disappointed.

Just another nail in the coffin of "college" athletics, from my perspective.

I won't think differently of Zion. But it would definitely taint my perspective of Duke if they have lied.

[CameronBornAndBred]

See this new article from Steve Wiseman. Not good. "Bank records show payments from ex-Adidas exec to Zion Williamson’s mom and stepfather" https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...251473183.html

As a Duke fan who doesn't want to see Duke dragged in, I say "So what?"
And obviously if it turns out to be true, then Duke's name will be brought up, but unless the above says and shows "Bank records show payments from a Duke rep to blahblahblah", then it doesn't affect the university.
If true, it's between Adidas (not Duke's Nike), and Zion and his family. Or maybe just between Adidas and his family. I don't know. I don't care.

Because Duke itself is not implicated.

[chrishoke]

If it is true, wouldn't it mean that Zion and his family lied to Duke? Again, if true.

[hibby91]

But it would definitely taint my perspective of Duke if they have lied.

I agree, but I have a difficult time believing that Coach K would allow (or encourage) his staff to be part of improprieties when his staff is made up of former players that he has known since they were teenagers. They are basically family and not assistant coaches that bounce from school to school. He isn't going to throw them under the bus and claim ignorance. Not that anyone on this board cares, but I will stop watching or rooting for them entirely if Duke is somehow directly linked.

[proelitedota]

This exact situation already happened with Maggette. It's not a big deal for the university, but it'll be bad optics for the NCAA if they're going to vacate wins for $5k given the current atmosphere in regards to supporting paying players.

[AGDukesky]

This exact situation already happened with Maggette. It's not a big deal for the university, but it'll be bad optics for the NCAA if they're going to vacate wins for $5k given the current atmosphere in regards to supporting paying players.

It’s not the same if payments were made while Zion was at Duke. Maggette was only accused of taking money before college. Either way I’m not that worried...

[Nugget]

As a Duke fan who doesn't want to see Duke dragged in, I say "So what?"
And obviously if it turns out to be true, then Duke's name will be brought up, but unless the above says and shows "Bank records show payments from a Duke rep to blahblahblah", then it doesn't affect the university.
If true, it's between Adidas (not Duke's Nike), and Zion and his family. Or maybe just between Adidas and his family. I don't know. I don't care.

Because Duke itself is not implicated.

As a Duke fan who doesn't want to see Duke dragged in, I say "So what?"
And obviously if it turns out to be true, then Duke's name will be brought up, but unless the above says and shows "Bank records show payments from a Duke rep to blahblahblah", then it doesn't affect the university.
If true, it's between Adidas (not Duke's Nike), and Zion and his family. Or maybe just between Adidas and his family. I don't know. I don't care.

Because Duke itself is not implicated.

I disagree strongly with this -- if it's true, and it's deemed an NCAA violation for the Adidas rep to have made the (alleged) payments to Zion's mother/step-father (i.e., they are deemed not to be legitimately related to Adidas' sponsorship of Zion's AAU team) then it absolutely does "affect" Duke and Duke is "implicated" -- simply by virtue of playing someone who was ineligible Duke is exposed to NCAA consequences (e.g., vacating the 32 wins from that season, forfeiting the NCAA tournament win shares). Further, the NCAA rules are clear that this kind of issue isn't avoided merely by routing payments to a player's family -- the player would still be deemed ineligible.

You may choose not to care about those consequences, but they would exist nonetheless.

Also, if this is true, Duke's having been loud wrong about the proclamations that Zion's eligibility issues had been fully vetted absolutely "implicates" and "affects" Duke - at least reputationally.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I disagree strongly with this -- if it's true, and it's deemed an NCAA violation for the Adidas rep to have made the (alleged) payments to Zion's mother/step-father (i.e., they are deemed not to be legitimately related to Adidas' sponsorship of Zion's AAU team) then it absolutely does "affect" Duke and Duke is "implicated" -- simply by virtue of playing someone who was ineligible Duke is exposed to NCAA consequences (e.g., vacating the 32 wins from that season, forfeiting the NCAA tournament win shares). Further, the NCAA rules are clear that this kind of issue isn't avoided merely by routing payments to a player's family -- the player would still be deemed ineligible.

You may choose not to care about those consequences, but they would exist nonetheless.

Also, if this is true, Duke's having been loud wrong about the proclamations that Zion's eligibility issues had been fully vetted absolutely "implicates" and "affects" Duke - at least reputationally.

I'd care more if they had a snowball's chance of sticking. As I said, this is (very likely) way more on Zion and his family than it is on Duke.

[Nugget]

If it is true, wouldn't it mean that Zion and his family lied to Duke? Again, if true.

Maybe, but maybe not. I suppose it's possible that these payments -- during what appears from the timing (Nov. 2016 to Sept. 2017) to be Zion's Junior year of HS and continuing to early into his Senior year in HS -- were disclosed to the NCAA/Duke and deemed to be sufficiently related to Adidas' sponsorship of Zion's AAU team and his step-father's running of that program so as to be legit (again, in the same way that payments of similar amounts to Marvin Bagley's father by Nike for running his AAU team were deemed legit).

There is the stray payment into Zion's step-father's furniture store account in Jan. 2019, but per the story they don't know where that came from. It would be odd that they did know the 2016-2017 payment came from the Adidas guy but not know that for the 2019 payment. So, perhaps that was just Zion's step-father paying off his bill (so not an issue). Insufficient information to tell.

[sagegrouse]

I disagree strongly with this -- if it's true, and it's deemed an NCAA violation for the Adidas rep to have made the (alleged) payments to Zion's mother/step-father (i.e., they are deemed not to be legitimately related to Adidas' sponsorship of Zion's AAU team) then it absolutely does "affect" Duke and Duke is "implicated" -- simply by virtue of playing someone who was ineligible Duke is exposed to NCAA consequences (e.g., vacating the 32 wins from that season, forfeiting the NCAA tournament win shares). Further, the NCAA rules are clear that this kind of issue isn't avoided merely by routing payments to a player's family -- the player would still be deemed ineligible.

You may choose not to care about those consequences, but they would exist nonetheless.

Also, if this is true, Duke's having been loud wrong about the proclamations that Zion's eligibility issues had been fully vetted absolutely "implicates" and "affects" Duke - at least reputationally.

We're talking about $5K in payments? Plus some in the same range likely connected to the AAU team. And the party leaking this information has a huge lawsuit against Zion. I would like to hear from the defense before I get too worked up over this.

[ice-9]

Maybe the Adidas guy bought some furniture? Is that a violation?

[chrishoke]

Steve Wiseman is reporting that this latest suit has now been dismissed with prejudice by the federal judge.

Here is the article linked in Steve's tweet. https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...251684993.html

[Buredemon]

If you want to hear the appeal argument about Zion’s appeal, it is here: https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/OAarchi...3-20231024.mp3. Including some UVA jokes from a judge with clear allegiances.

[AZLA]

So basically Zion was protected because the law looks at him as for lack of a better word, young and dumb, incapable of making an enforceable contract in the first place in the eyes of the law because he was an amateur college player and the onus was on Ford to satisfy 3 criteria which wasn’t met, but was required of her. Therefore she was the party committing the illegal activity in the first place not only making the contract null and void, but also making any further legal inquiry into whether potential student-amateur-athlete violations took place meaningless to the court. So essentially Ford had absolutely no leverage any more over Zion since her behavior snd actions were illegal in the first place. And without an enforceable contract and exchange of $$$ it’s a nothing burger, and Zion dodges a close one. Case closed. Zion goes to NBA not soon enough. Yadda yadda…

[bundabergdevil]

So basically Zion was protected because the law looks at him as for lack of a better word, young and dumb, incapable of making an enforceable contract in the first place in the eyes of the law because he was an amateur college player and the onus was on Ford to satisfy 3 criteria which wasn’t met, but was required of her. Therefore she was the party committing the illegal activity in the first place not only making the contract null and void, but also making any further legal inquiry into whether potential student-amateur-athlete violations took place meaningless to the court. So essentially Ford had absolutely no leverage any more over Zion since her behavior snd actions were illegal in the first place. And without an enforceable contract and exchange of $$$ it’s a nothing burger, and Zion dodges a close one. Case closed. Zion goes to NBA not soon enough. Yadda yadda…

Paired with other stories since his arrival in the NBA, it paints a picture of a young man who needs to get more worldly fast or at least make sure he’s got folks in his corner with a lot of good sense and intentions.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Paired with other stories since his arrival in the NBA, it paints a picture of a young man who needs to get more worldly fast or at least make sure he’s got folks in his corner with a lot of good sense and intentions.

I mentioned elaeah6- this really feels like an important season for Zion and Ja. For different reasons, but with similar impact.

When they rolled into the league, the assumption was we would see them square off in late playoff matchups for a decade or so. Now they need to stay on the court and out of negative headlines.

Here's hoping both young men get their heads and bodies right and can wow us with some basketball.

[rocketeli]

I know we are all supposed to be Duke homers here, but frankly this just always looked like a case to me of Zion signing a deal then getting a better offer and trying to weasel out of the first deal, pure and simple. As for lacking any capacity to sign, he didn't seem to lack any capacity to sign a contract to play basketball at Duke, or to play in the NBA.

[sagegrouse]

I know we are all supposed to be Duke homers here, but frankly this just always looked like a case to me of Zion signing a deal then getting a better offer and trying to weasel out of the first deal, pure and simple. As for lacking any capacity to sign, he didn't seem to lack any capacity to sign a contract to play basketball at Duke, or to play in the NBA.

Yep. But I wouldn't go along with "weasel out." He signed a deal with a bit player and IIRC his stepfather ended up with a job or something; then CAA came along. Turns out the original contract with a small Fla. entity, was not consistent with NC law. In other words, the original agent was incompetent. Weasel out? No -- escaped safely.