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  1. #521
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by ice-9 View Post
    But...it wasn't humor. It was me being impressed.
    My apologies, sir (though Iím fairly certain you were being sarcastic). 😃

    Anyway, we should probably go forward with this really important thread. Iím sorry for the digressions.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by ice-9 View Post
    Players not showing up is important context, but at the end of the day the roster that played was the most talented and deepest in the tournament and yet came 7th with 3 losses (should've been 4). That's underperformance regardless of who no-showed.

    The real issue is not talent, it's clearly something else.

    I read an article somewhere that said this FIBA team if in the NBA would be easily favored to win the championship.
    (Long-post-while-at-work-and-bored alert.) It seems pretty clear to me that the issue was two-fold this go-round: a lack of continuity and a lack of the kind of super-high-end talent that often lets the team work around a lack of continuity. The emphasis on continuity of program was one of the major institutional upgrades that was made after the last time the US had a similarly rough finish in a World Cup. For a variety of reasons (plenty to speculate on there), that really eroded this time around, and the roster was full of newcomers.

    Even though it's clear that Kemba Walker is a better player in a vacuum than, say, Patty Mills, Patty has been playing with FIBA rules and with the Australian NT system and players for a LONG time. You'd rather have 2019 Harrison Barnes than 2019 Luis Scola if you're starting a team from scratch, but Scola has been dominating these tourneys in the Argentinian NT context since before Barnes was playing basketball. That continuity (or lack thereof) just makes a huge difference, and other World Cup or Olympics teams from recent years have had guys who played FIBA ball together (the 2010 team is the big exception; more on that team in a second). This team didn't have those hold-overs.

    Back to that 2010 team. That group had a similar issue: a ton of the Redeem Team guys from 2008 had pulled out for a variety of reasons, leading to a totally new roster. I remember that there were A LOT of questions about the team's play style being too ISO-focused, which were primarily based around the fact that they hadn't played together before (much like this year's group). However, just a glance at that 2010 roster compared to this year makes it clear that, while, yes, Team USA was easily the deepest team talent-wise in the field this World Cup, there just weren't the super high-end isolation options that let the 2010 team dominate despite the lack of flow. When things broke down in 2010, Kevin Durant just scored. Westbrook, Kevin Love, and Derrick Rose all could create for themselves at a high level. When things broke down this year, Mitchell, Walker, and other guys off and on had to take on a pretty heavy isolation burden, and they just weren't able to score consistently in that situation.

    There are certainly other things to nitpick, and plenty of complexity to delve into (I was particularly surprised by how poorly the big-man shooters on the team shot; I figured that they would be a huge weapon for the team, and, instead, they weren't a factor at all). But honestly, the US has dominated recently through a combination of familiarity with the team/system and with the obvious talent disparity. When the familiarity went out the window this time around and the talent disparity wasn't nearly at the level that the National Team has had in the past, they had some struggles.

    (RE: this team being favored to win the NBA title. Maybe? I mean, it's not a given, for sure. This year the NBA is a bit more of a crapshoot than it's been in a long time, but I'm not sure I'd take this roster over the Clippers, say. Would you take them against the healthy Warriors of last year or the year before? I definitely wouldn't. And that's assuming they had the practice time a normal NBA team would have. With the lead-up time they had for the FIBA tourney? Absolutely no chance, even against some relatively mediocre playoff teams (for instance: Pop's Spurs).)

  3. #523
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    Australia has major motivation having never won an international medal. I am taking them, and I'll go against the grain and say that Argentina is going to grab the improbable gold.
    Looks like I am going to go 0-2 on these predictions, France won Bronze, Spain up 10+ at the half. Maybe Argentina has one more run left in them. If not, itís a legit FIBA capstone for the guys still left from Spainís Golden Generation of M Gasol and Rudy Fernandez.

  4. #524
    Congrats to Spain on the win and to Ricky Rubio on the well-deserved MVP. As a TWolves fan, great but bittersweet to see him playing probably his best basketball this tournament. Hope he can keep that momentum going and have a big year in Phoenix (they need him to be an absolute stud this year in order to not be a complete embarrassment again, that's for sure).

    It'll be interesting to see what things look like next year at the Olympics (especially since I keep reading that FIBA has designs on killing 5x5 basketball in the Olympics generally so that the World Cup becomes a bigger deal (they control all the revenue on the World Cup)). The US squad should be back in force; I've already seen that Draymond Green said that he and Steph are in, and I'd fully expect a good percentage of the big-time stars to be back, as well. Will the same hold true for Canada? If so, they'll be a strong challenger for a medal. If Australia can get Ben Simmons back into the fold, they'll be really tough. Spain could add both Ibaka and Mirotic (or are the Olympics like the World Cup, where you can only add one naturalized player?), but are thin on the wings, and Marc will be another year older. Serbia should be out for blood after their loss this year. It'll be really interesting to see how things shake out.

    Anyway, nice to have the World Cup this year as an oasis in the typically basketball-less time of the summer. Can't wait to see how this Duke squad looks.

  5. #525
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldBattleship View Post
    Will the same hold true for Canada? If so, they'll be a strong challenger for a medal.
    Canada will need to win a qualifying tournament in July next summer to get to the Olympics. If their best players show up, that should not be a problem for them but it is an extra commitment and means they will be playing hoops for a solid 2 months during what is usually the summer break.

    That said, it will give them more time to gel and more game action to figure out how to play together, so it could be a blessing in disguise.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Canada will need to win a qualifying tournament in July next summer to get to the Olympics. If their best players show up, that should not be a problem for them but it is an extra commitment and means they will be playing hoops for a solid 2 months during what is usually the summer break.

    That said, it will give them more time to gel and more game action to figure out how to play together, so it could be a blessing in disguise.
    Agreed on all points. It's definitely more work for the players, but I just can't imagine that at least SOME of the NBA-level group (beyond Khem Birch and Corey Joseph) won't turn up to get them qualified. That said, I probably would've said the same thing before the World Cup, so who knows.

    They're a super fun hypothetical team, though, that's for sure. You can put together some really interesting 5-man units with the eligible Canadian players (Gilgeous-Alexander, Murray, Barrett, Brazdeikas, Clarke for a fun young small-ball scoring machine unit?).

  7. #527
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldBattleship View Post
    Congrats to Spain on the win and to Ricky Rubio on the well-deserved MVP. As a TWolves fan, great but bittersweet to see him playing probably his best basketball this tournament. Hope he can keep that momentum going and have a big year in Phoenix (they need him to be an absolute stud this year in order to not be a complete embarrassment again, that's for sure).

    It'll be interesting to see what things look like next year at the Olympics (especially since I keep reading that FIBA has designs on killing 5x5 basketball in the Olympics generally so that the World Cup becomes a bigger deal (they control all the revenue on the World Cup)). The US squad should be back in force; I've already seen that Draymond Green said that he and Steph are in, and I'd fully expect a good percentage of the big-time stars to be back, as well. Will the same hold true for Canada? If so, they'll be a strong challenger for a medal. If Australia can get Ben Simmons back into the fold, they'll be really tough. Spain could add both Ibaka and Mirotic (or are the Olympics like the World Cup, where you can only add one naturalized player?), but are thin on the wings, and Marc will be another year older. Serbia should be out for blood after their loss this year. It'll be really interesting to see how things shake out.

    Anyway, nice to have the World Cup this year as an oasis in the typically basketball-less time of the summer. Can't wait to see how this Duke squad looks.
    That would be shocking. Basketball has been played at the Olympics since 1936. Skateboarding and sport climbing are poor substitutes.

    Then again, several years ago they voted out wrestling, which of course was on the original slate in ancient Greece. Saner minds brought it back.

  8. #528
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldBattleship View Post
    It'll be interesting to see what things look like next year at the Olympics (especially since I keep reading that FIBA has designs on killing 5x5 basketball in the Olympics generally so that the World Cup becomes a bigger deal (they control all the revenue on the World Cup)).
    Well, basketball is the second-greatest worldwide sport and played in every country. It is unthinkable to me that hoops would not be part of the Olympics. I guess I would need some references to accept your statement.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    That would be shocking. Basketball has been played at the Olympics since 1936. Skateboarding and sport climbing are poor substitutes.

    Then again, several years ago they voted out wrestling, which of course was on the original slate in ancient Greece. Saner minds brought it back.
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Well, basketball is the second-greatest worldwide sport and played in every country. It is unthinkable to me that hoops would not be part of the Olympics. I guess I would need some references to accept your statement.
    There are definitely only rumors at this point, and, if anything were to happen, it would definitely still be a ways out in the future. That said, there's certainly a lot of smoke, mostly centered around the ongoing public battle between FIBA and the IOC and around the (somewhat bizarre) growth of 3x3 basketball at the Olympics (so, the theory goes, it's not that BASKETBALL would be gone from the Olympics, just 5x5 basketball). Here's a recent article from Tom Ziller, who's typically pretty good at cutting through the noise with these types of rumor-heavy issues.

    A lot can change year to year, of course, so this may all come to nothing, but the battle between the World Cup and the Olympics has been going on for a while now (the reverse of the battle between the Olympics and FIFA). I'm no expert on the seemingly pretty sordid world of these big international sports organizations, but, from the little I do know, it certainly wouldn't surprise me to see some big money power play drastically change the way that international basketball is framed in the next decade one way or another.

  10. #530
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldBattleship View Post
    There are definitely only rumors at this point, and, if anything were to happen, it would definitely still be a ways out in the future. That said, there's certainly a lot of smoke, mostly centered around the ongoing public battle between FIBA and the IOC and around the (somewhat bizarre) growth of 3x3 basketball at the Olympics (so, the theory goes, it's not that BASKETBALL would be gone from the Olympics, just 5x5 basketball). Here's a recent article from Tom Ziller, who's typically pretty good at cutting through the noise with these types of rumor-heavy issues.

    A lot can change year to year, of course, so this may all come to nothing, but the battle between the World Cup and the Olympics has been going on for a while now (the reverse of the battle between the Olympics and FIFA). I'm no expert on the seemingly pretty sordid world of these big international sports organizations, but, from the little I do know, it certainly wouldn't surprise me to see some big money power play drastically change the way that international basketball is framed in the next decade one way or another.
    Thanks for the link. I guess where I'm lost is why the IOC would care what FIBA wants. If they have a 5x5 event at the Olympics, the teams will come.

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