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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Several years ago (2014), Neil Paine at FiveThirtyEight wrote an article breaking down some of the various schools of thought on the U.S. men's soccer futility. It's wonderfully sourced and if you're interested, would encourage following some of the links out. I found The Atlantic article referenced early that argues against high school sports to be engaging. It notes the U.S. spends more tax dollars per high school athlete than per high school math student.

    Anyway, the article has a lot of historical context and stats. The author basically concludes U.S. soccer is similar to, say, European basketball --- the sport developed in other parts of the world and that's where the best players continue to be cultivated and featured and U.S has only just begun to break into that competitive system (similar to Euro stars slowly infiltrating the NBA). The U.S. tried to short cut some of that history by hiring Klinsmann to bring a European approach but it's probably just going to continue to take time, investment, and exposure.

    Worth a revisit even though it's an old article.
    I look forward to reading those. It would seem though that we have one thing that many of those countries do not have: a long history of immigration. Folks from soccer-playing cultures (read: about everywhere but here) have emigrated to the States for generations. I learned soccer from a neighbor who was born and raised in England. We have these folks here.
    “Fútbol is life!” — Dani Rojas, Richmond Greyhounds

  2. #22
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    {sigh}
    “Fútbol is life!” — Dani Rojas, Richmond Greyhounds

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    {sigh}
    Yeah.

    I think it is time to move on from Michael Bradley...he looks like he's moving in slow motion out there these days. Would really like to believe we can come up with something better in the starting lineup than Jordan Morris. Zardes is a decent player but it would be nice to have a stronger option there as well. Looking forward to Tyler Boyd getting back on the field.

  4. #24
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Durham-- 2 miles from Cameron, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by fuse View Post
    With respect (and nothing personal), this is a frustrating ongoing false narrative.

    In a country of 300 million plus people, there are enough elite calibre athletes for practically every sport.

    There have been some comments about cost related to development, and while it pales in comparison to travel hockey, the cost to play youth soccer at a competitive club level is not insignificant.

    I “get it”, and at the same time I don’t truly understand why the US can’t field a dominant men’s soccer team.
    Yeah, I’ve wondered about this a long time myself. I do think you’re underestimating the pervasive effect of the uber-exceptional athletes— the types of athletes who would excel in almost whatever they dedicated themselves to— being unerringly pushed to just about everything but soccer.

    These wouldn’t just be the best athletes... they’d be the most exciting.

    Furthermore, US men’s soccer culture seems to push a very team-oriented variant that’s just less exciting. It’s more about limiting mistakes than taking risks. We churn out world-class goalies, excellent defenders, solid midfielders, and whenever we produce a spectacular, world-class (male) striker, it will be the first time. Ever.

    Just my view from the soccer-as-occasional-obsession seats.

  5. #25
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    Yeah, I’ve wondered about this a long time myself. I do think you’re underestimating the pervasive effect of the uber-exceptional athletes— the types of athletes who would excel in almost whatever they dedicated themselves to— being unerringly pushed to just about everything but soccer.

    These wouldn’t just be the best athletes... they’d be the most exciting.

    Furthermore, US men’s soccer culture seems to push a very team-oriented variant that’s just less exciting. It’s more about limiting mistakes than taking risks. We churn out world-class goalies, excellent defenders, solid midfielders, and whenever we produce a spectacular, world-class (male) striker, it will be the first time. Ever.

    Just my view from the soccer-as-occasional-obsession seats.
    Highlander had some similar thoughts about risk-taking in our development system. I think it's a great point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    I've heard several reasons anecdotally, so take them for what it's worth:
    • At the youth level, the best players are pushed toward the best teams/clubs and travel ball is expensive, which limits opportunities for those without those means. Competitive Soccer in the US is essentially an upper middle class sport.
    • In the US, the focus is on building a competitive team rather than on improving the player. Our normal model would keep that same player on an elite team at his/her age level with a gaudy record to keep the parents happy.
    • Last thing I have heard is that at the top levels of competition, it is cutthroat to keep your spot and players develop a cautious/deliberate mentality because they are petrified of making a mistake, getting pulled, and then losing their starting spot. As a result, risk taking is not rewarded.


    Overall I agree that despite those limitations, we should be able to find 24 guys who can play at a high level, and the fact that we trot out the same tired faces for lack of a better option is infuriating.
    It does seem to me that Pulisic is the most skilled US player on the ball I've ever seen. Landon had great vision and speed, but lacked the...trickiness. Dempsey is probably the closest comparison, I guess? Granted I've only been following US soccer for about a decade so I'm missing out on plenty of guys from before that.

  6. #26
    Join Date
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Well damn...

    More than 6,500 migrant workers have died in Qatar amid the nation's preparation to host the 2022 World Cup, The Guardian reports.
    ...
    The listed causes of death include electrocution, blunt injuries due to a fall from height and suicide. Most of the deaths are listed as "natural" while citing heart or respiratory failure, according to the report.
    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-...043412847.html
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    You can't make an omelette...

    Seriously though, this next World Cup seems like the poster child for insane FIFA corruption and cover ups.

    I had heard about the horrid working conditions and dangerous situations well over a year ago - I just assumed those reports had been investigated and/or addressed. Apparently, none of the above.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I saw that mentioned on social media this morning but the source was an unreliable bastion of crazy so I was hoping that it wasn't true. Obviously that's a huge number of deaths, migrant workers always seem to give more than they get.

    As someone that would like to see soccer become more popular, you hate seeing something this negative associated with the World Cup (I mean on the mens side it's bad enough that we have a team that's not very competitive).

    On a positive note, loved watching the USWNT play this week as they won the SheBelieves cup.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    I saw that mentioned on social media this morning but the source was an unreliable bastion of crazy so I was hoping that it wasn't true. Obviously that's a huge number of deaths, migrant workers always seem to give more than they get.

    As someone that would like to see soccer become more popular, you hate seeing something this negative associated with the World Cup (I mean on the mens side it's bad enough that we have a team that's not very competitive).

    On a positive note, loved watching the USWNT play this week as they won the SheBelieves cup.
    Three fun matches for USWNT!

  10. #30
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    So far as I know, Qatar is also having major problems with keeping their indoor stadiums cool enough for safe play (although I haven't heard anything about that in a while so maybe the issue was resolved). At one point they were even discussing playing three periods instead of two halves to allow more downtime to rehydrate. Qatar was an absolutely awful choice to host the World Cup all around, that bid should have gone to the US.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    So far as I know, Qatar is also having major problems with keeping their indoor stadiums cool enough for safe play (although I haven't heard anything about that in a while so maybe the issue was resolved). At one point they were even discussing playing three periods instead of two halves to allow more downtime to rehydrate. Qatar was an absolutely awful choice to host the World Cup all around, that bid should have gone to the US.
    Ye$. It i$ truly confu$ing how thi$ could have happened in the otherwi$e noble $port of $occer.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Ye$. It i$ truly confu$ing how thi$ could have happened in the otherwi$e noble $port of $occer.
    Especially since FIFA is so pure and above reproach. Untarnished history and whatnot.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Ye$. It i$ truly confu$ing how thi$ could have happened in the otherwi$e noble $port of $occer.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Especially since FIFA is so pure and above reproach. Untarnished history and whatnot.
    A bastion of honesty, integrity, and transparency*, to be sure!

    *Actually, they don't actually hide their corruption very well, I'm not sure they even really try, so I suppose maybe you could credit them with being transparent about it?

  14. #34
    There was a great John Oliver segment about the rampant corruption of FIFA a few years ago. Lemme see if I can track it down.

    Oh, seems he has walked this road several times. Here's the first piece he did:
    https://youtu.be/DlJEt2KU33I

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    So far as I know, Qatar is also having major problems with keeping their indoor stadiums cool enough for safe play (although I haven't heard anything about that in a while so maybe the issue was resolved). At one point they were even discussing playing three periods instead of two halves to allow more downtime to rehydrate. Qatar was an absolutely awful choice to host the World Cup all around, that bid should have gone to the US.
    You mean flagrant bribery doesn't produce the best result for world football? I am shocked!
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  16. #36
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    The IOC is eternally glad that FIFA exists so it doesn't look so bad.

    What is it about international sporting agencies and rampant bribes/corruption?
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    This thread is as good as any.

    The United States will miss a third-straight Olympics after losing 2-1 to Honduras in the semifinal of the CONCACAF qualifying round for the 2020 games in Guadalajara, Mexico, on Sunday afternoon.
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/report?gameId=598607
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    And our goalie basically gave Honduras one of those goals. Brutal.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    And our goalie basically gave Honduras one of those goals. Brutal.
    Embarrassing

  20. #40
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    We is not good.

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