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  1. #1941
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    This is exactly the twitter video I was referring to earlier. I don't think it exonerates him but it at least makes one pause before continuing to flog him.
    Yes- he clearly goes there with a purpose.
    dukelifer

  2. #1942
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Yes- he clearly goes there with a purpose.
    And if there is going to be a switch, then Mason needs to go immediately to LeBron, to prevent him from rolling to the basket. Which is what Mason did.

    Mason misread the play: when Davis cut towards LeBron, he assumed a screen and acted accordingly. Davis, obviously, did not go tight to a LeBron screen, and instead went wide. But having called for the switch, Mason followed through, and Grant needed to to follow through as well. Mason was there covering LeBron, all Grant needed to do was take a step toward Davis--ready to cover a pass to Davis, and ready to help on LeBron.

    So in the end, Mason misread the play, but Grant failed to execute the plan. Both are at fault.

    And even then, Denver still got a hand up on the shot. And forcing a 3 in this scenario is better than giving up a look closer to the basket. So kudos to Anthony Davis for hitting a difficult shot.

    As an aside, a huge pet peeve of mine in the last few years is teams taking long 3s when down by 1 (or tied). Any shot will win the game, and there's no bonus for margin of victory. Who cares if taking a 3 is a more efficient shot at other times in the game---at this point, get the highest percent shot, period. And usually, a mid range or shot in the paint has a higher overall chance of going in than a shot far from the hoop.

  3. #1943
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth&Justise View Post
    And if there is going to be a switch, then Mason needs to go immediately to LeBron, to prevent him from rolling to the basket. Which is what Mason did.

    Mason misread the play: when Davis cut towards LeBron, he assumed a screen and acted accordingly. Davis, obviously, did not go tight to a LeBron screen, and instead went wide. But having called for the switch, Mason followed through, and Grant needed to to follow through as well. Mason was there covering LeBron, all Grant needed to do was take a step toward Davis--ready to cover a pass to Davis, and ready to help on LeBron.

    So in the end, Mason misread the play, but Grant failed to execute the plan. Both are at fault.

    And even then, Denver still got a hand up on the shot. And forcing a 3 in this scenario is better than giving up a look closer to the basket. So kudos to Anthony Davis for hitting a difficult shot.

    As an aside, a huge pet peeve of mine in the last few years is teams taking long 3s when down by 1 (or tied). Any shot will win the game, and there's no bonus for margin of victory. Who cares if taking a 3 is a more efficient shot at other times in the game---at this point, get the highest percent shot, period. And usually, a mid range or shot in the paint has a higher overall chance of going in than a shot far from the hoop.
    i fully agree with everything up until the last paragraph, and even there i don't really disagree. However, most defenses are thinking along those lines too and are putting more effort into preventing a high-quality 2pt shot, meaning the more difficult 3pt shot is less tightly guarded. Most of the time. These days though, a catch&shoot 3 by the right player is also a high quality shot. However, teams mostly just want to get the ball to a "clutch" player, however one defines that. Davis was clutch there.

  4. #1944

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    I don't think Butler is ever painted as a locker room problem in the media. Usually it is presented as "Butler is such a hard worker and fierce competitor in practice, sometimes the more easy going guys who don't like to work as hard don't get along with him." (Which paints the other guys as the problem for not wanting to work hard enough).
    Spent 3 seconds on Google: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op8yid4mWKE

    "Jimmy Butlerís reputation is a Ďlocker room cancerí - Max Kellerman"

  6. #1946
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by ice-9 View Post
    Spent 3 seconds on Google: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op8yid4mWKE

    "Jimmy Butlerís reputation is a Ďlocker room cancerí - Max Kellerman"
    Is that why he and Kyrie get along so well?
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #1947
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by ice-9 View Post
    Spent 3 seconds on Google: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op8yid4mWKE

    "Jimmy Butlerís reputation is a Ďlocker room cancerí - Max Kellerman"
    A couple comments:

    -Why don't you Google Max Kellerman? He has very little background or insight on pro hoops generally, and especially when that quote was made.

    -The timing of that quote is from right after Butler was traded from the T-Wolves to the 76ers. That was the end of an admittedly tough run for Jimmy. His tenure in Chicago didn't end well; that was not entirely his fault, given repeated front office mistakes and Derrick Rose's struggles to maintain the stoplight, but Butler definitely could've handled his transition to stardom and team leader better. The issues in Minnesota were more about the immaturity and work ethic of his teammates, particularly Wiggins and KAT, and management's commitment to them, though Butler again could've handled things better.

    -Time has pretty well vindicated Jimmy. He played well and was not at all disruptive for the 76ers, and he has clearly found a great fit in Miami, with its culture, coaching staff and roster mix of grizzled veterans and hardworking youngsters. The guy is widely respected around the league, and seems to have cemented himself as a top 10-12 player and winner.

  8. #1948
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    i fully agree with everything up until the last paragraph, and even there i don't really disagree. However, most defenses are thinking along those lines too and are putting more effort into preventing a high-quality 2pt shot, meaning the more difficult 3pt shot is less tightly guarded. Most of the time. These days though, a catch&shoot 3 by the right player is also a high quality shot. However, teams mostly just want to get the ball to a "clutch" player, however one defines that. Davis was clutch there.
    I agree with both you and T&J. Itís just really unfortunate that Mason Plumlee is going to be remembered for this one play forever unless the Lakers sweep or Denver pulls out the series.

    But if the Lakers win in 6 or 7 games Mason is going to be thought of as having blown the series.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    A couple comments:

    -Why don't you Google Max Kellerman? He has very little background or insight on pro hoops generally, and especially when that quote was made.

    -The timing of that quote is from right after Butler was traded from the T-Wolves to the 76ers. That was the end of an admittedly tough run for Jimmy. His tenure in Chicago didn't end well; that was not entirely his fault, given repeated front office mistakes and Derrick Rose's struggles to maintain the stoplight, but Butler definitely could've handled his transition to stardom and team leader better. The issues in Minnesota were more about the immaturity and work ethic of his teammates, particularly Wiggins and KAT, and management's commitment to them, though Butler again could've handled things better.

    -Time has pretty well vindicated Jimmy. He played well and was not at all disruptive for the 76ers, and he has clearly found a great fit in Miami, with its culture, coaching staff and roster mix of grizzled veterans and hardworking youngsters. The guy is widely respected around the league, and seems to have cemented himself as a top 10-12 player and winner.
    Don't kill the messenger. I was just saying a lot in the media portrayed Butler as a negative locker room presence. Feel free to Google around some more.

    No comment on Max, except he gets a lot of media exposure for his sports opinions. He certainly qualifies as media.

    If you followed the thread, you'd realize that I was defending Jimmy all along.

  10. #1950
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by ice-9 View Post
    Don't kill the messenger. I was just saying a lot in the media portrayed Butler as a negative locker room presence. Feel free to Google around some more.

    No comment on Max, except he gets a lot of media exposure for his sports opinions. He certainly qualifies as media.

    If you followed the thread, you'd realize that I was defending Jimmy all along.
    Sorry, my bad

    I am a Bulls fan, and was a season ticket holder throughout Butler's time in Chicago, so I've followed his career very closely (he first caught my attention in his Marquette days, particularly when he outplayed Singler in an early matchup in the 2011 season). He remains a big favorite in our household, so I am probably biased. But I genuinely believe that the bad endings in Chicago and Minnesota are more of an anomaly than truly representative of Butler's personality. Time will tell.

    Kellerman absolutely gets exposure, but I view him in the same vein as Stephen A and Skip Bayless from an approach and credibility standpoint. I don't believe his opinions count much with anyone who follows the NBA seriously.

  11. #1951
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    Sorry, my bad

    I am a Bulls fan, and was a season ticket holder throughout Butler's time in Chicago, so I've followed his career very closely (he first caught my attention in his Marquette days, particularly when he outplayed Singler in an early matchup in the 2011 season). He remains a big favorite in our household, so I am probably biased. But I genuinely believe that the bad endings in Chicago and Minnesota are more of an anomaly than truly representative of Butler's personality. Time will tell.

    Kellerman absolutely gets exposure, but I view him in the same vein as Stephen A and Skip Bayless from an approach and credibility standpoint. I don't believe his opinions count much with anyone who follows the NBA seriously.
    Again, I think that the perception is created by how the story ends. If Butler's Heat make a run into the Finals (or perhaps already) he looks like a hard-fighting genius who couldn't stomach the ineptitude of the 76ers organization. Who can't understand that?

    It seems to me that by and large he has the respect and support of his current and former teammates. I'll pay closer attention to that and his on-court accomplishments than I will to any talking head on ESPN.

    As someone who has watched precious little NBA until this particular season, I find him incredibly enjoyable to watch.

  12. #1952
    Are we just gonna not comment on Jayson Tatum's 31pt-10reb double double? Aside from the great production, he also really played under control and with poise down the stretch. However, it was his monster 3rd quarter that won them the game, and made it so he didn't need to press at the end.

    OTOH, in tonight's game, MP2 is likely to play although he hasn't been all that productive as the Nugs are leaning really heavily on Jokic, and it is unlikely that Quinn will play at all.

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