Women's World Cup - 2019 Champs!

[Wander]

Now, can I confess something?

I loved it.

I loved every second of it.

I loved every one of the 13 goals.

I love the fact that for 24 hours, Alex Morgan had singlehandedly outscored every other country in this tournament (and even now she's still outscored all but three, or four if you count the rest of the U.S. team as a separate country).

I love that in one game, the U.S. women scored more goals than the U.S. men's team scored in the last four World Cup tournaments combined, including the 2018 World Cup, which the men's team didn't qualify for.

I loved the celebrations, the wide-mouthed smiles, the hugs, the expressions of unadulterated joy from this band of sisters that's never done anything but win and inspire young girls to work hard and dream big and be inclusive and support each other for nearly a generation now.

I. Loved. It.

You score and celebrate as much as you want, ladies. You've more than earned it.

Me too. I've always thought the "you're winning or celebrating too much" complaints are nonsensical for professional or high-level college sports. For high school sports or intramural games or rec league or the D3 level or college exhibition games, sure, it's different. How often do we complain about some of our teams not having a "killer mentality" or "taking their foot off the gas" or whatever? I wanted to see Zion dunking at the buzzer of ACC games up 20.

[left_hook_lacey]

I have no problems with teams at this level running up the score. It's just bad form to celebrate after the 10th goal the way you would the first or second. It just comes across as...I don't know...weird, or desperate for attention.

Score as much as you want, but act like you know you're the better team when you're drubbing someone by that much.

I am biased though because I find lots of things about soccer annoying, including the 25 minute long, over the top team celebrations after every goal.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I have no problems with teams at this level running up the score. It's just bad form to celebrate after the 10th goal the way you would the first or second. It just comes across as...I don't know...weird, or desperate for attention.

Score as much as you want, but act like you know you're the better team when you're drubbing someone by that much.

I am biased though because I find lots of things about soccer annoying, including the 25 minute long, over the top team celebrations after every goal.

For those saying the celebrations were fine, I'll put it in a different context, and remember, in this case, you were on the winning side.

Flip the table. Think of Duke at NCSU, VT, wherever, and we lose, whether by a lot, or a by a little, and the court rush ensues.
I can't count the number of times I've read on the forums, including from posters who have supported the late goal celebrating, "act like you've been there before".
The US has definitely been there before, they could have been more classy.

[JasonEvans]

Timely. From today's Wall Street Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-wom...5600?mod=rsswn

Wow, Tom. I am floored at those numbers. That was just gate receipts though, right? I wonder if the TV revenues and sponsorship agreements tell a similar story. If not, then I completely agree that the women deserve a very hefty raise.

[budwom]

For those saying the celebrations were fine, I'll put it in a different context, and remember, in this case, you were on the winning side.

Flip the table. Think of Duke at NCSU, VT, wherever, and we lose, whether by a lot, or a by a little, and the court rush ensues.
I can't count the number of times I've read on the forums, including from posters who have supported the late goal celebrating, "act like you've been there before".
The US has definitely been there before, they could have been more classy.

Absolutely true. I always watch the women when they play, and think their team is just terrific. Joy to watch. But the late goal celebrations, especially Rapinoe's (and I really like her, too), were simply over the top and embarrassing.

[Devil2]

Wow, Tom. I am floored at those numbers. That was just gate receipts though, right? I wonder if the TV revenues and sponsorship agreements tell a similar story. If not, then I completely agree that the women deserve a very hefty raise.

Those are numbers that relate to the income from US Federation income and not the real money which is what FIFA generates. The US men's team itself is not very good and he not progressed well. The men are essentially getting a free ride from men's soccer worldwide (or at least Europe and South America), which generates insane amounts of money.

[elvis14]

Jill Ellis did something many have been asking Coach K to do for years...she played her bench. She really played her bench! I think the huge victory over Thailand really freed Ellis up to not worry about goal differential and to give most of the starters a rest. It was really cool to see the team go out and dominate with most of the starting lineup wearing pinnies on the sidelines! Often when I hear people on this board argue for someone to start they get a simple question: who are you going to sit? I feel the same way about the USWNT. Online I mostly see people mentioning Carly Lloyd and Ali Krieger. Lloyd is obvious, she's been so good for so long and has played great the last couple of months. Good to see her play 90 Sunday and play strong. Krieger is less obvious for me. I haven't really seen her play that much but after watching Sunday's game, I can see why people like her on the pitch. She looked strong, fast and clever with the ball.

Like a deep Duke hoops team, this team has an embarrassment of talent. I just hope they can put it together properly when they have to play stronger teams. Thursday's game vs Sweden should be a good test. I'm looking forward to seeing who who starts and who plays. Because we are so deep I find myself wishing more subs were allowed.

[PackMan97]

Unlimited substitutions would be the #1 way to make soccer more exciting. Just make them hockey style. One player comes off at midfield, another goes on at midfield.

There are times in a match where you can tell both teams are just coasting trying to get their wind after a few frantic minutes and both are content to waste the clock and regroup. I can only imagine how hard some of the players would go if they knew they could go all out and have a 5-10 minute breather.

the substitution rule is just dumb.

[OldPhiKap]

Unlimited substitutions would be the #1 way to make soccer more exciting. Just make them hockey style. One player comes off at midfield, another goes on at midfield.

There are times in a match where you can tell both teams are just coasting trying to get their wind after a few frantic minutes and both are content to waste the clock and regroup. I can only imagine how hard some of the players would go if they knew they could go all out and have a 5-10 minute breather.

the substitution rule is just dumb.

Isn't lacrosse's substitution rule similar to hockey as well? (Must admit, I only watch Duke playoff games so I am far from an expert)


But for me, soccer is fine the way it is. It is the most watchable sport IMO because the game tends to flow with minimal interruption. Baseball, football, and basketball have gotten harder and harder for me to watch with extended reviews, time outs, fouls, and general butt-scratching.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Isn't lacrosse's substitution rule similar to hockey as well? (Must admit, I only watch Duke playoff games so I am far from an expert)


But for me, soccer is fine the way it is. It is the most watchable sport IMO because the game tends to flow with minimal interruption. Baseball, football, and basketball have gotten harder and harder for me to watch with extended reviews, time outs, fouls, and general butt-scratching.

Lacrosse is like hockey with substitutions on the fly. In general, most of the subbing is for midfielders as the teams transition from attack to defense so that the right situational players are in, though multiple lines of offensive midfielders are usually used. Attackmen and defensemen (and goalies) tend to stay in for most of the game.

I have mixed feelings about the soccer substitution rules. Substitutions definitely slow down the pace of play, and the way it is now creates a lot of strategy. The one thing I hate about soccer is all of the diving and guys acting like they've been shot then getting up and running down the field five seconds later. If more substitutions will help eliminate some of the drama, then I am all for it.

[PackMan97]

The one thing I hate about soccer is all of the diving and guys acting like they've been shot then getting up and running down the field five seconds later. If more substitutions will help eliminate some of the drama, then I am all for it.

There is a simple solution to that as well. An injured player (or their team) may ask for a stoppage at the next dead ball (or if they have possession...a lot like basketball timeouts). If they do, the injured player is substituted and not allowed back onto the field for the remainder of the half. There ya go. Get up and play, or go get medical treatment.

[OldPhiKap]

I have mixed feelings about the soccer substitution rules. Substitutions definitely slow down the pace of play, and the way it is now creates a lot of strategy. The one thing I hate about soccer is all of the diving and guys acting like they've been shot then getting up and running down the field five seconds later. If more substitutions will help eliminate some of the drama, then I am all for it.

I agree with all of this, although I don't think a change to the sub rule would stop the diving. It's done to draw attention to the "foul." I think the best remedy is to give yellow cards for simulation/diving. (I also notice a lot less diving in women's soccer although it is there, too).

There is a simple solution to that as well. An injured player (or their team) may ask for a stoppage at the next dead ball (or if they have possession...a lot like basketball timeouts). If they do, the injured player is substituted and not allowed back onto the field for the remainder of the half. There ya go. Get up and play, or go get medical treatment.

I would be in favor of a free substitution for head injuries while they see if the player can continue or not. But otherwise I don't have a real problem with how it works now for injuries. The time is added back on at the end of the half, and sometimes you just have to play a man (or woman) down while a player gets treatment on the sideline.

[elvis14]

When I play indoor soccer, subbing in and out is done on the fly like hockey but I don't think that's needed for the outdoor game. I'm OK with the way soccer does it and I'm OK limiting the number of substitutions, I'd just like a slightly larger number, 5 sounds good, and I'd like for players to be able to return. Obviously the returning player would count as one of the 5 so if you want to get a guy some rest, you'll burn 2 of your 5. Limiting the number of substitutions makes the game flow more.

In lower level competition, lots of subs are allowed. I've seen coaches who have a lead do extra subs at the end of games to kill clock. Makes the end of the game choppy (kind of like fouls in hoops).

As for the diving/flopping, it's a huge issue here in the US. Much more so with the mens teams than the women. It's one of the reasons I much prefer the women's game to the mens. I think one of the reasons it bothers me so much is that it would be very easy to cleanup: give yellow cards for dives. Don't just give the cards out in realtime, review the footage and someone takes an obvious dive and interrupts the game, they get a yellow card. The beginning of the second half would simply start with anyone who took a dive receiving their yellow cards. There are already rules in place that force players to miss games for receiving cards (and for getting a red card for multiple yellow cards). For less obvious fouls and ones where the ref isn't sure, allow the referee to warn the player that the next one of those gets him a cumulative card. Problem solved, diving/flopping/drama reduced greatly. Soccer purists will disagree and consider it part of the game (if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin') but I think the popularity of the sport would grow more quickly in the US without the fake injuries.

Has anyone watched any of Sweden's games and have thoughts about the matchup?

[cato]

Unlimited substitutions would be the #1 way to make soccer more exciting. Just make them hockey style. One player comes off at midfield, another goes on at midfield.

There are times in a match where you can tell both teams are just coasting trying to get their wind after a few frantic minutes and both are content to waste the clock and regroup. I can only imagine how hard some of the players would go if they knew they could go all out and have a 5-10 minute breather.

the substitution rule is just dumb.

I disagree. I like the substitution rule and think it makes soccer more exciting, since it plays into the chess match.

[cato]

Has anyone watched any of Sweden's games and have thoughts about the matchup?

I don’t know if gus is reading this thread, but he would be a good bet to have some info.

[PackMan97]

I disagree. I like the substitution rule and think it makes soccer more exciting, since it plays into the chess match.

You do realize that almost no one watches competitive chess?

[OldPhiKap]

I watched Sweden against Thailand. Hard to tell much because Thailand played in such a shell, but -- Sweden possessed the ball well, was much taller than the Thai team, and seemed to play well as a unit. The attacks were well-built and the defense played well with one-on-one challenges. They beat Chile 2-0 and then Thailand 5-1 (drawing two penalty kicks IIRC).

Sweden dominated possession and shots in both of their games, and their pass accuracy was strong. After two easy games for us (Chile's goaltender notwithstanding), this should be a better test. FWIW they are ranked #9 on the Fifa.com rankings (USA #1).

[CameronBornAndBred]

You do realize that almost no one watches competitive chess?

They might if there were more over the top celebrations.

"Down goes your PAWN!!!!" (Dances with time clock around table)

[Tom B.]

They might if there were more over the top celebrations.

"Down goes your PAWN!!!!" (Dances with time clock around table)

Reminds me of this SNL sketch from about 35 years ago.


https://vimeo.com/94507581

[Highlander]

There is a simple solution to that as well. An injured player (or their team) may ask for a stoppage at the next dead ball (or if they have possession...a lot like basketball timeouts). If they do, the injured player is substituted and not allowed back onto the field for the remainder of the half. There ya go. Get up and play, or go get medical treatment.

Soccer subs are like baseball in that once you come off, you can't go back out. So in your scenario, the team must play the rest of the half down a player, which is a significant disadvantage. And there is subjectivity - how long does a player have to get up before the referee decides he must exit? As it stands today, an injured player can come off at any time, but the team must play down a player while he is off or substitute. The player needs the referee's permission to re-enter the field of play.

Secondly, the main reason substitutions take so long today is that the player coming off must completely exit the field of play before the substitute can come on. This is to prevent someone from committing a red card worthy offense during a substitution and having 12 players on the field. Does the team play a man down or was the substitute considered a bench player? During close games teams may use their substitutes to chew up clock, which is honestly kind of silly b/c the referee can add time to compensate for the behavior. It does allow players to take a short timeout tho.