Beilein to... Cleveland

[Steven43]

But he stores his extra time-outs in the UP, where no one ever looks and the locals are too polite to intrude, or even ask.

Stores them in the Upper Peninsula, huh? Well, at least he picked a beautiful wilderness area. Smart man.

[Hingeknocker]

Great article up on SI about Beilein leaving (FWIW written by a guy who formerly worked in local Michigan media, so knows the landscape pretty well). Some of the things that jumped out to me here have been hinted at in other things I've read about this surprising decision, which is namely that the rampant corruption in college basketball, combined with the uptick in players leaving for the NBA arguably before they're ready (and most certainly when they still had room to develop in college), might have worn Beilein down.

Take all that for what you will, but I have to imagine that had to play some factor in Beilein's decision. It's sad that we've come to a place in college sports where that happened.

If John Beilein were actually concerned about the rampant corruption in college sports, he never would have taken a job paying him $2M+ per year while the players get relative peanuts. I have no tears to shed for him.

I agree that college sports is in a sad state, but I think you're coming at it from the wrong direction.

[Wahoo2000]

If John Beilein were actually concerned about the rampant corruption in college sports, he never would have taken a job paying him $2M+ per year while the players get relative peanuts. I have no tears to shed for him.

I agree that college sports is in a sad state, but I think you're coming at it from the wrong direction.

Or maybe he thinks the players should be true student athletes just like in baseball, lacrosse, field hockey, etc? It's like we've decided that revenue generation is the sole factor in determining who "deserves" money (which many subscribe to, I understand - but not everyone is on board with the theory of "he who drives the revenue gets the biggest chunk of the revenue).

[Steven43]

Or maybe he thinks the players should be true student athletes just like in baseball, lacrosse, field hockey, etc? It's like we've decided that revenue generation is the sole factor in determining who "deserves" money (which many subscribe to, I understand - but not everyone is on board with the theory of "he who drives the revenue gets the biggest chunk of the revenue).

Wait...why are we taking about revenue and who should or should not get it? Has the Beilein discussion shifted to the topic of college athletes getting paid (or not)?

[Hingeknocker]

Or maybe he thinks the players should be true student athletes just like in baseball, lacrosse, field hockey, etc? It's like we've decided that revenue generation is the sole factor in determining who "deserves" money (which many subscribe to, I understand - but not everyone is on board with the theory of "he who drives the revenue gets the biggest chunk of the revenue).

Then I'm sure Beilein would have had no problem getting the same salary as the field hockey coach at Michigan? I looked it up, and from Sept. of 2018, that coach was paid $171,500.

[Wahoo2000]

Then I'm sure Beilein would have had no problem getting the same salary as the field hockey coach at Michigan? I looked it up, and from Sept. of 2018, that coach was paid $171,500.

When I said that all the college athletes should be compensated the same (just with tuition and other benefits that fall within the rules), I didn't mean that would apply to the coaches. Players are students, coaches are employees. Apples to Oranges (until some court rules that the athletes are employees and all appeals against that ruling are exhausted).

And I'm not sure Beilein is against paying athletes, but I'm pretty sure he's against breaking the rules. I think to him, "dirty" means so many programs playing outside the rules. As others have stated, I'm sure he's also frustrated at kids chasing the NBA cash when they're clearly not ready (like a couple of his kids this year).

[Hingeknocker]

When I said that all the college athletes should be compensated the same (just with tuition and other benefits that fall within the rules), I didn't mean that would apply to the coaches. Players are students, coaches are employees. Apples to Oranges (until some court rules that the athletes are employees and all appeals against that ruling are exhausted).

And I'm not sure Beilein is against paying athletes, but I'm pretty sure he's against breaking the rules. I think to him, "dirty" means so many programs playing outside the rules. As others have stated, I'm sure he's also frustrated at kids chasing the NBA cash when they're clearly not ready (like a couple of his kids this year).

If there's anything I've learned from DBR, it's that this particular discussion is basically impossible to have. But the credulous article from SI was so absurd, and Beilein's supposed sympathetic reasons for wanting out of the college game are so preposterous, that I had to comment.

What I fail to understand about your point is: why are market forces allowed to dictate different salaries for different sports' coaches, but we better never, ever, ever, ever let market forces dictate what the players get?

All of the "dirtiness" that Beilein is presumably upset about is totally traced back to the amateurism rules of the NCAA. All of it. It doesn't have to be this way, but the NCAA makes it very clear they are choosing to enforce those rules now and into the future. Beilein chose to be a part of it the day he took a D-1 coaching job in 1992. Nothing has changed since then. This is why I have no sympathy for him.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

So...

Any updates on this search? I know it has only been a few days but I assume they want to move very quickly given the timing.

[scottdude8]

Man, a lot of you took my post and ran with it in all sorts of unintended directions! To be clear: I was asserting NOTHING about my, or Beilein’s, opinion on the pay players debate, or the “student athlete” debate. All I was saying is that reports are that Beilein was starting to get a bit frustrated by unexpected early departures and how it influenced his ability to craft a team over the course of years, not months. Not saying that’s right or wrong! But in the NBA he knows he can think slightly more long term than you can in the modern college game.

[sagegrouse]

If there's anything I've learned from DBR, it's that this particular discussion is basically impossible to have. But the credulous article from SI was so absurd, and Beilein's supposed sympathetic reasons for wanting out of the college game are so preposterous, that I had to comment.

What I fail to understand about your point is: why are market forces allowed to dictate different salaries for different sports' coaches, but we better never, ever, ever, ever let market forces dictate what the players get?

All of the "dirtiness" that Beilein is presumably upset about is totally traced back to the amateurism rules of the NCAA. All of it. It doesn't have to be this way, but the NCAA makes it very clear they are choosing to enforce those rules now and into the future. Beilein chose to be a part of it the day he took a D-1 coaching job in 1992. Nothing has changed since then. This is why I have no sympathy for him.

Here's the deal, athletes. Some of you get a full ride academically plus other perks and tons of responsibilities; some of you get a partial ride, or none at all. Basketball players seem to have the best deal of all in terms of some amount of stipend and the ability to ensure the future (at the college's expense). That is college sports in America. If you don't like this model, turn pro or don't play.

The current model is tattering around the edges due to sale of images, endorsements, etc. I expect it will go stagger on for quite a few years or decades with relatively minor variations.

Then there is the model that says that players should be paid, and universities should be allowed to bid for players beyond what is currently legit in the NCAA. That's not the NCAA. The players can be paid any amount, just not by members of the NCAA. The NCAA is a voluntary association whereby the members agree to certain rules (actually, a ton of rules). Players can go out on the pro market and sign for anything they want; they just can't play college sports.

Sage is perfectly comfortable with the existing model, although it is clearly creaky and requires constant vigilance to stamp out side payments.

Economists have come here and argued that the absence of a free and open market for player compensation is "inefficient." All parties, measured as a whole, will be better off with a free and open market where Texas and Ohio State and Alabama (and maybe even Duke) can dig deep to get the best players. My problem with that is that the "partial-equilibrium" solution -- pay the players what they are worth -- destroys the entire system of college athletics, which is based on fair and relatively equal competition among a hundred or more schools. That's the "general equilibrium" nature of college sports -- you can't have meaningful competition if a few rich schools grab all the best players. You have to look at the entire field of college sports under different sets of rules about compensation of players.

In fact, doesn't every professional league in the US of A have salary caps to limit the ability of the richest teams to buy up the talent?

I like our model, but then I'm an old fogy who remembers when Doak Walker won the Heisman and Frank Leahy of Notre Dame got fired after an undefeated season with a Heisman trophy winner.

Anyway IMHO (where John Heisman grabbed the H a century ago), you have to merge a partial equilibrium discussion (how players get compensated) with a general equilibrium understanding of what college sports looks like.

[PackMan97]

My problem with that is that the "partial-equilibrium" solution -- pay the players what they are worth -- destroys the entire system of college athletics, which is based on fair and relatively equal competition among a hundred or more schools. That's the "general equilibrium" nature of college sports -- you can't have meaningful competition if a few rich schools grab all the best players. You have to look at the entire field of college sports under different sets of rules about compensation of players.

Have you not been paying attention to the cheating UNC was able to get away with? 18+ years of no courses for their star athletes? Players being given late model rentals car to drive around in? Tutors writing papers and paying parking tickets? Sure, their FB team missed a bowl game and was down a handful of scholarships but suffered no real harm. Their basketball program skated completely. They had an ethics professor running the scam for the women's basketball program. They had baseball players needed straight A's in summer school able to get all the grades needed to be eligible while playing summer league ball.

I do not believe the current model is based on "fair and relatively equal" competition.

I can guarantee you, NC State is going to get hit far worse for Dennis Smith than UNC was for thousands of athletes taking part in institutionally led cheating.

[Steven43]

Have you not been paying attention to the cheating UNC was able to get away with? 18+ years of no courses for their star athletes? Players being given late model rentals car to drive around in? Tutors writing papers and paying parking tickets? Sure, their FB team missed a bowl game and was down a handful of scholarships but suffered no real harm. Their basketball program skated completely. They had an ethics professor running the scam for the women's basketball program. They had baseball players needed straight A's in summer school able to get all the grades needed to be eligible while playing summer league ball.

I do not believe the current model is based on "fair and relatively equal" competition.

I can guarantee you, NC State is going to get hit far worse for Dennis Smith than UNC was for thousands of athletes taking part in institutionally led cheating.

Everything you wrote in this post is separate from the issue of whether or not to pay student athletes.

[tommy]

So...

Any updates on this search? I know it has only been a few days but I assume they want to move very quickly given the timing.

Not quick enough. Their top recruit, top-50 Jalen Wilson, decommitted today.

[BD80]

Dawkins to UM would be amusing. I can see the fanbase thinking: "Didn't he already coach here?"

[DUKIE V(A)]

Dawkins to UM would be amusing. I can see the fanbase thinking: "Didn't he already coach here?"

If this were to happen, could Papa convince Aubrey to forego the NBA draft for a second stint at Michigan as a graduate transfer? My guess is not likely but interesting to think about.

Did not see Beilein to the NBA coming. He is an outstanding coach, and I wish him well in Cleveland.

[scottdude8]

FWIW, from what I can tell the Michigan fanbase is quite tepid about the possibility of Dawkins, considering his excessively average resume at Stanford. That said, Beilein leaving late in the game means Michigan doesn't have the typical top-tier "coaching carousel" candidates to choose from.

The possibility of Juwan Howard is picking up a lot of steam. I think many Michigan fans would rather take a chance on him and the combo of name-recognition and connection to the university than reach for a candidate that wouldn't even be on the radar had this search happened months ago. I'd personally rather role the dice on Yaklich, especially since Texas is apparently trying to poach him already. The best case scenario would be we quickly hire Howard, give Yaklich a big raise to stay on, and that allow the Wolverine's to maintain some form of continuity and hopefully get Jalen Wilson back in the fold. But whatever direction we go in, I think the earlier this is resolved the better for the Michigan program.

It just kills me that there's such a strong possibility that we're going to squander a team with great senior leaders at PG and C given this turnover. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but my expectations plummeting.

[Steven43]

It just kills me that there's such a strong possibility that we're going to squander a team with great senior leaders at PG and C given this turnover. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but my expectations are plummeting.

I’m hoping you’re right!

[scottdude8]

For those still interested, it's looking like all the tea-leaves are now pointing toward Juwan Howard to get the Michigan job. Providence's Ed Cooley interviewed for the job yesterday but turned the interest into a new multi-year deal to stay home. Howard is interviewing today, and there's speculation that a decision could come this week... that would leave only Howard and the assistants on staff who have been interviewed as viable candidates. There has been speculation that hiring Howard, who hasn't been a head coach before and thus wouldn't have his own staff he might want to bring along, would allow Michigan to retain some of it's current assistants, which would be huge (especially if that includes defensive wizard Yaklich). If that pans out, Michigan would be right back in the mix for Jalen Wilson (and, for what its worth, fellow Top 100 commit Cole Bajema hasn't decommitted yet), because Wilson has said he'd prefer some "continuity" at Michigan were he to seriously consider recommitting.

[Steven43]

I just heard Howard to Michigan is a done deal.

[jimsumner]

North Carolina is trying to get involved with Jalen Wilson.

FWIW.