2023 Men's Basketball Recruiting

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I still don't get the obsession with predicting when guys will leave who haven't played a single minute of Duke basketball yet. Seems fairly pointless...

This is why a lot of us long-time DBR posters who are as obsessed about Duke basketball as many of the so-called experts and super fans around here rarely read the threads that are actually about basketball. I like to speculate and discuss Duke basketball as much as the next guy or gal and I get that thinking about who might be leaving factors into recruiting discussions, but at some point it all becomes circular.

[budwom]

Makes the 2024 recruiting thread more interesting

Indeed. I'm sure Coach Jon has a lot of thoughts on the matter, and I bet he knows there will be surprises along the way...

[flyingdutchdevil]

Indeed. I'm sure Coach Jon has a lot of thoughts on the matter, and I bet he knows there will be surprises along the way...

Of course. My take on recruiting is cynical but realistic: assume every 5 star is OAD and assume 50% of 4 star of worse transfers within two years. If these two cardinal rules don't hold, then we have the luxury of watching a player develop (Roach, Wendell, MW).

[DavidBenAkiva]

I still don't get the obsession with predicting when guys will leave who haven't played a single minute of Duke basketball yet. Seems fairly pointless...

I wouldn't say it's an obsession. There are 6 months of downtime in college basketball. That leaves a lot of space to let the mind wander. I also find it interesting to watch which recruits are prioritized and which fade in interest. Seeing which recruits are being courted gives me a hint as to what the coaching staff thinks about the current roster.

[Steven43]

Against DBR rules to attack the Moderators {"inherent bias"}

Lol.

Definitely not an attack. pfrduke’s post was solid, if not spectacular. I got a chuckle out of it. And I fully admit I was trying to provoke a response(s) with my original post.

In fact, DavidBenAkiva’s efforts have been so convincing that I’m now writing an article on this subject entitled “How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the OAD”.

[jv001]

Lol.

Definitely not an attack. pfrduke’s post was solid, if not spectacular. I got a chuckle out of it. And I fully admit I was trying to provoke a response(s) with my original post.

In fact, DavidBenAkiva’s efforts have been so convincing that I’m now writing an article on this subject entitled “How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the OAD”.

My motto, worry about the things I can change and don't worry about things I can't change. So, I never worry about OADs, but I did love the four-year players.
The best Duke basketball era in my lifetime.

GoDuke!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

My motto, worry about the things I can change and don't worry about things I can't change. So, I never worry about OADs, but I did love the four-year players.
The best Duke basketball era in my lifetime.

GoDuke!

Yes. This is The Way.

In the 80s and most of the 90s, it never occurred to me to hope players didn't leave early - I simply didn't happen at Duke. We didn't recruit "those types" of kids (we probably need a separate thread to unpack that particular sentiment).

Then we started losing kids early and I started hoping players would stay 4 years. Then Duke started (I believe with J-Will) putting in systems that would allow a player to graduate in three years so they could go pro early. That was very smart and proactive.

Then, we started losing kids after one year. And I started hoping they would stay longer than one years.

Now, it seems like it's such a gift of we get a starter coming back.

You either have to shift your expectations or spend lots of time upset and frustrated with the whims and decisions of 18 year old men.

[JasonEvans]

Lol.

Definitely not an attack. pfrduke’s post was solid, if not spectacular. I got a chuckle out of it. And I fully admit I was trying to provoke a response(s) with my original post.

In fact, DavidBenAkiva’s efforts have been so convincing that I’m now writing an article on this subject entitled “How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the OAD”.

I'm not entirely sure if you are being somewhat genuine or largely snarky here... let me just say that if I had a better sense of that answer you might be getting an infraction.

But, on a more salient point, can I just add that I find the whining over OAD unproductive and silly. News flash -- every Duke fan would prefer 4-year players (hey, they can be 5 year players in the current environment). Every Duke fan has fond memories of watching Battier, Nolan, Zoubek, and countless other guys progress from flawed to fabulous over the course of several years. I doubt you can find me any Duke fan who prefers an endless parade of "who is that again?" to faces we know before the season even starts.

We get that it is a bummer that those days are behind us. Now, get over it.

We are in a new era. OAD is a reality and it will impact the Duke roster every single year until we stop being a destination for elite talent (which is something for which only a fool would advocate). This is what Duke is and all the whining in the world ain't gonna change it.

[Steven43]

I'm not entirely sure if you are being somewhat genuine or largely snarky here... let me just say that if I had a better sense of that answer you might be getting an infraction.

But, on a more salient point, can I just add that I find the whining over OAD unproductive and silly. News flash -- every Duke fan would prefer 4-year players (hey, they can be 5 year players in the current environment). Every Duke fan has fond memories of watching Battier, Nolan, Zoubek, and countless other guys progress from flawed to fabulous over the course of several years. I doubt you can find me any Duke fan who prefers an endless parade of "who is that again?" to faces we know before the season even starts.

We get that it is a bummer that those days are behind us. Now, get over it.

We are in a new era. OAD is a reality and it will impact the Duke roster every single year until we stop being a destination for elite talent (which is something for which only a fool would advocate). This is what Duke is and all the whining in the world ain't gonna change it.

Hmm, it seems you may have misinterpreted the intention and tenor of my post.

And no, I don’t like the OAD era at all when compared with the previous history of college basketball. I think I should be allowed to voice that opinion on DBR. But honestly, I don’t “whine” about this issue much. I discuss it on maybe one or two threads per year.

Anyway, please carry on with the 2023 recruiting thread. It is quite an astonishing class that is being assembled.

[KKDL19]

The era of the OAD may not be liked but it's the reality of the times. Also, NIL. The times we live in are no where near what they used to be in collegiate athletics. It has gone from sport to a business such as many other things. When TikTokers, Youtubers and others can make more money than those with a college degree, we all need to adjust like it or not.

As far as Duke basketball goes, I personally don't see any issue with OAD, bc if those kids were allowed to go straight to the NBA we would not even have them as part of the Duke Brotherhood. So I will enjoy the players as long as they stay at Duke. Moreover, if players were able to go straight to the NBA from HS and there wasn't a rule setting how many years players had to stay in college then there will always be OADs for those players maybe 4 stars and such would have their one shining year in college and cash in by jumping to the league.

It is what it is...

[53n206]

The era of the OAD may not be liked but it's the reality of the times. Also, NIL. The times we live in are no where near what they used to be in collegiate athletics. It has gone from sport to a business such as many other things. When TikTokers, Youtubers and others can make more money than those with a college degree, we all need to adjust like it or not.

As far as Duke basketball goes, I personally don't see any issue with OAD, bc if those kids were allowed to go straight to the NBA we would not even have them as part of the Duke Brotherhood. So I will enjoy the players as long as they stay at Duke. Moreover, if players were able to go straight to the NBA from HS and there wasn't a rule setting how many years players had to stay in college then there will always be OADs for those players maybe 4 stars and such would have their one shining year in college and cash in by jumping to the league.

It is what it is...

Yeah, I guess you're right. Actually, I know you're right.

[FastBreak]

I'm not entirely sure if you are being somewhat genuine or largely snarky here... let me just say that if I had a better sense of that answer you might be getting an infraction.

But, on a more salient point, can I just add that I find the whining over OAD unproductive and silly. News flash -- every Duke fan would prefer 4-year players (hey, they can be 5 year players in the current environment). Every Duke fan has fond memories of watching Battier, Nolan, Zoubek, and countless other guys progress from flawed to fabulous over the course of several years. I doubt you can find me any Duke fan who prefers an endless parade of "who is that again?" to faces we know before the season even starts.

We get that it is a bummer that those days are behind us. Now, get over it.

We are in a new era. OAD is a reality and it will impact the Duke roster every single year until we stop being a destination for elite talent (which is something for which only a fool would advocate). This is what Duke is and all the whining in the world ain't gonna change it.

Fair point. I think the debate is whether Duke fans would sacrifice some winning for more of a "system" that is able to keep more multi-year players. Would we rather have a program like UVA that can be awful some years, but then other years be really good. Right now we have a team that is really good all the time. That's what we expect as Duke fans. But is what it takes to get that (a ton of OAD talent) worth the pleasure of seeing a team grow up together over a few years?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Fair point. I think the debate is whether Duke fans would sacrifice some winning for more of a "system" that is able to keep more multi-year players. Would we rather have a program like UVA that can be awful some years, but then other years be really good. Right now we have a team that is really good all the time. That's what we expect as Duke fans. But is what it takes to get that (a ton of OAD talent) worth the pleasure of seeing a team grow up together over a few years?

And here is the cardinal rule: no one wants to sacrifice winning. Not the fans, not the coaches, not the university, not the media, not anyone.

As long as the program is doing things legally, they will do whatever it takes to win.

If I could choose between OADs or four year players with the premise that either generates the same win percentage (especially in the tournament), I'd choose four year players any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But the coaching staff realized that talent trumps experience. And so they go the OAD route.

[KKDL19]

I am not sure any fan would say they would settle for less wins or a lesser talented roster.

My best case scenario would be the NBA would allow HS players to go straight to the draft and then the NCAA would adopt a rule that had players stay a minimum of 2 years.

[scottdude8]

I am not sure any fan would say they would settle for less wins or a lesser talented roster.

My best case scenario would be the NBA would allow HS players to go straight to the draft and then the NCAA would adopt a rule that had players stay a minimum of 2 years.

Yup, I've thought the same since my time writing for the Chronicle... baseball has a rule that's something like this and seems to have worked great. But unfortunately we're at the mercy of the NBA there, which is interested in their best interests and not that of college sports.

[MartyClark]

I'm not entirely sure if you are being somewhat genuine or largely snarky here... let me just say that if I had a better sense of that answer you might be getting an infraction.

But, on a more salient point, can I just add that I find the whining over OAD unproductive and silly. News flash -- every Duke fan would prefer 4-year players (hey, they can be 5 year players in the current environment). Every Duke fan has fond memories of watching Battier, Nolan, Zoubek, and countless other guys progress from flawed to fabulous over the course of several years. I doubt you can find me any Duke fan who prefers an endless parade of "who is that again?" to faces we know before the season even starts.

We get that it is a bummer that those days are behind us. Now, get over it.

We are in a new era. OAD is a reality and it will impact the Duke roster every single year until we stop being a destination for elite talent (which is something for which only a fool would advocate). This is what Duke is and all the whining in the world ain't gonna change it.

Jason, I appreciate you as a moderator and a poster. I don't think it is appropriate for you to give a veiled threat of infraction to someone you don't agree with.

[JasonEvans]

Jason, I appreciate you as a moderator and a poster. I don't think it is appropriate for you to give a veiled threat of infraction to someone you don't agree with.

I did not give a veiled threat because I disagreed with him. I was essentially giving him a warning for uncivil posting. None of the mods would infract a poster because we merely disagreed with him/her. That is not our style at all and is far from the case here.

Look at the post by Steven that I quoted. You will see Steven admit that his earlier posts were designed to get a rise out of someone ("I was trying to provoke a response(s) with my original post") and also see that he follows up that admission with a line that could be considered the kind of condescending snark that we do not allow here ("I’m now writing an article on this subject"). My response had nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with anything else Steven wrote and everything to do with a tone that could be seen as crossing the civility line.

I am loathe to discuss infractions or warnings in public, but in this case I wanted the "victim" to see that the mods were dealing with the offending post. I also figured it as worth it so that others could see that snark like that is not appreciated here. I aso know Steven has a long enough high quality posting history so that I thought he could take the criticism.

Bottom line, if you want to playfully prod the way I suspect Steven was probably doing, make the prodding a little more obvious and good natured.

[MartyClark]

I did not give a veiled threat because I disagreed with him. I was essentially giving him a warning for uncivil posting. None of the mods would infract a poster because we merely disagreed with him/her. That is not our style at all and is far from the case here.

Look at the post by Steven that I quoted. You will see Steven admit that his earlier posts were designed to get a rise out of someone ("I was trying to provoke a response(s) with my original post") and also see that he follows up that admission with a line that could be considered the kind of condescending snark that we do not allow here ("I’m now writing an article on this subject"). My response had nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with anything else Steven wrote and everything to do with a tone that could be seen as crossing the civility line.

I am loathe to discuss infractions or warnings in public, but in this case I wanted the "victim" to see that the mods were dealing with the offending post. I also figured it as worth it so that others could see that snark like that is not appreciated here. I aso know Steven has a long enough high quality posting history so that I thought he could take the criticism.

Bottom line, if you want to playfully prod the way I suspect Steven was probably doing, make the prodding a little more obvious and good natured.

I'm not prodding. I'm simply making, I think, a neutral statement. Agree or disagree, anything is fair game.

I don't think I was anything but good natured but perhaps you disagree. That's fine. We can agree to disagree on this board.

[Steven43]

I did not give a veiled threat because I disagreed with him. I was essentially giving him a warning for uncivil posting. None of the mods would infract a poster because we merely disagreed with him/her. That is not our style at all and is far from the case here.

Look at the post by Steven that I quoted. You will see Steven admit that his earlier posts were designed to get a rise out of someone ("I was trying to provoke a response(s) with my original post") and also see that he follows up that admission with a line that could be considered the kind of condescending snark that we do not allow here ("I’m now writing an article on this subject"). My response had nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with anything else Steven wrote and everything to do with a tone that could be seen as crossing the civility line.

I am loathe to discuss infractions or warnings in public, but in this case I wanted the "victim" to see that the mods were dealing with the offending post. I also figured it as worth it so that others could see that snark like that is not appreciated here. I aso know Steven has a long enough high quality posting history so that I thought he could take the criticism.

Bottom line, if you want to playfully prod the way I suspect Steven was probably doing, make the prodding a little more obvious and good natured.

This is a fair and even-handed post. I totally get where you’re coming from. And yes, I was fine with the criticism.

And I also know that MartyClark didn’t intend any offense. Both of y’all are solid posters who contribute a lot to the DBR community. It’s all good.

[Chillduck]

So….how’s the 2023 class looking?