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  1. #2161
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I don’t think Mark should declare because he is concerned about playing time next year. He won and has kept a starting spot in his freshman year. He plays 26 minutes a game, takes 7 shots, hits 3.3 per game (good for almost 10 points) and is part of a defense that has shown flashes of elite defensive prowess.

    We don’t know how Jon will do things year to year, but that sounds like the profile of a player that will earn plenty of playing time if he returns, most likely as a starter but if not then firmly in the rotation.

    The big question will be where he thinks he will go. If he doesn’t have a straight line to a good place to develop at the next level, he may be best served to return to Duke.
    Agree. For a freshman, Mark has been an excellent defender this year, with the ability to cover multiple positions. No one knows how well the three incoming freshmen will be as defenders. But they will have to be pretty good to displace Mark as an upperclassmen with his defensive abilities. Sean Stewart is a great athlete but as limited as Mark is offensively. I haven't seen where Powers or Mgbako are great defenders on the high school level. But very good offensive skills.
    I don't keep up with those sites that project drafts positions, but a friend who does, stated that our freshman class has played themselves out of the first round.I'm sure someone on here can contradict that.
    I think Flip can play himself into a lottery pick were he to come back. Proctor probably into the first round. Lively and Whitehead were never coming back and the talk last summer was that Mark wanted to be in college for one year.
    These kids have often pretty much made up their mind before they play their first college game. And it didn't change for kids like Keels, Steward, Stanley and others who either fell to the second round or were not drafted at all. They wanted to get to the next level as quick as possible. And a majority of posters on the Duke boards feel like they made the right decisions.You can supposively get better without all the "distractions" of college by playing in one of the many minor league organizations. Didn't seem to hurt kids in the pre-OAD era of Duke basketball, but I guess things changed.
    I think our best chance of seeing sophomores at Duke are Flip and Proctor. And Schutt. I think Mark would have a huge sophomore year, despite the presence of Powers, MgBako and Stewart. MgBako might be the only player coming in that could be considered ready for the next level. And he, like anyone in this years class, is near the one year players Duke has seen the last five years. No Tatum, Bagley, RJ, Zion, or Banchero.

  2. #2162
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    Mark Mitchell, Jeremy Roach, Trevor Keels, Tyrese Proctor are/were all quality basketball players at the ACC level. However, hundreds of 6-68 very good b-ball players are available for the NBA to pick through. I dont think any of these 4 players have shown superpowers or specific high end skills that make them that NBA attractive.

    I realize they all have that goal, but I dont see any of the above earning a regular rotation spot in The League.
    Tyrese is a sure-fire NBA player, IMHO, (where the H got disoriented at a Helly Hansen benefit for the 4-H club).

  3. #2163
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Caleb Foster

    So, back on topic for the 2023 recruiting thread, for those of you interested, I got another, even better look at Caleb Foster last night. His Notre Dame team played Sierra Canyon for the second time in less than a week, this time in the semifinals of the league playoffs, and this time in Notre Dame's gym, which is a small, old school gym, rather than at Pauley Pavillion. I was therefore able to get a very up close view of Caleb as well as the numerous other high D-1 recruits in this game, including but not limited to Bronny James. Bronny did not play in the game last weekend, but he did last night. On the other hand, Sierra's best player, junior Isiah Elohim did not play last night as he was on crutches due to an ankle injury suffered in the previous game. This was anticipated to be a great matchup, but Notre Dame dominated, blowing Sierra Canyon out of the gym by I think it was 27 points.

    I won't bore anyone with reviews of the other outstanding prospects in this game. So what about Caleb Foster?

    This is as close as I've been able to watch Caleb, and what is very clear is that he is really a power point guard. He is a plus athlete, and he is built. He will not be getting knocked back by anybody. He has a nasty crossover, a crossover/stepback, and when he wants to beat his man and get to the rim, he can do so with no problem at least at this level. A couple of times Sierra tried to guard him with a skinny sophomore and it was a joke. No chance. It was much more challenging when Bronny guarded him, but still Caleb was pretty much able to get to his spots. Caleb pushes the ball at every opportunity, really putting pressure on the entire defense.

    His jumpshot is really something to behold. It is far from classic, as he puts what seems like waaaaay too much arc on it. Like it's gonna bring rain. But damn if that ball doesn't come down into the bottom of the net an awful lot. Not much margin for error when you shoot like that, but he really knocks them down, including from distance. And at least on this team, at this level, Caleb has no conscience. He was pulling up from the logo and launching, and hitting. Not sure those shots are going to be good enough shots in the context of the Duke offense, but dang. He ended up with 20 points to lead a balanced attack.

    What I didn't see, again, is a whole lot of distributing, and creating shots for others. Yes he passes the ball, moves it around the perimeter, but I didn't see much dishing to others for open shots. Caleb definitely gets his, but I'd have liked to see him create easy shots for teammates a bit more often. It's obviously something he needs to add to his game if he's going to play point guard, although as I think about that, Duke has had other point guards including Jeremy Roach who have not excelled in that area. I'd also like to see him add some kind of floater/runner in the lane to his repertoire, as the shotblockers coming at him at the ACC level are obviously going to be more imposing than those in high school.

    I just like the intensity with which Caleb plays. He brings it every night, and he seems to rise to the occasion even more when playing against top competition. I like that a lot. Some say he may be like a Trevon Duval in terms of his athleticism and physicality at the PG position, and his ability to move his feet on defense, but to me his long range shooting put him in a completely different category. Would sure be nice to have that type of physical player at the position next year who can also shoot it. Adding the distribution piece would complete this young man as a player. Can't wait to see him in Duke Blue!

  4. #2164
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    ^Thanks for the review of Foster. I saw him play on TV as a sophomore and even then he looked strong. On that team he was maybe the 3rd best player and showed some ability to dish. However, he probably is more of a combo guard than true PG.

  5. #2165
    Watching a game on ESPNU between Montverde and La Lumiere. Sean Stewart is a solid body, for sure, but has started slowly. He’s missed 5 of 6 FTs, and his FT form is not good. Announcer said Stewart has been coming off bench, as his coach said he’s trying too hard, or something like that. Stewart is starting 2d half. Nice 15’ jumper just now.

    Easily the most impressive player is Montverde’s Liam McNeely (‘24). Hope he’s a major Duke target, as he does it all, including constant movement, passing, driving, shooting. Cooper Flagg (‘25) is obviously multi-skilled, but has been too passive.

    Two other ‘23 commits look good for an overmatched La Lumiere team: 4* Kaleb Glenn (UL) and 4* Gus Yalden (Wisc).

    ETA — Stewart just hit another elbow jumper, good form, second swisher.
    Last edited by gumbomoop; 02-02-2023 at 04:07 PM.

  6. #2166
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    Mark Mitchell, Jeremy Roach, Trevor Keels, Tyrese Proctor are/were all quality basketball players at the ACC level. However, hundreds of 6’-6’8” very good b-ball players are available for the NBA to pick through. I don’t think any of these 4 players have shown superpowers or specific high end skills that make them that NBA attractive.

    I realize they all have that goal, but I don’t see any of the above earning a regular rotation spot in The League.
    I disagree about all but Roach.

    Trevor Keels is currently only 19.5 and just coming into his own for the Knicks G-League squad. He's averaging 14 but has recently ripped off a few 20+ point games and is up near 40% from 3.

    Tyrese is also only 18 and has yet to fill out. He may still grow, but he has nice size for a PG.

    Mitchell needs to keep working on his shot, but he's the right size to guard 1-4 in the NBA.

    As for Roach, he'll need the right situation. But, did any of us think that Jose Alvarado would be a legit NBA rotation player?

  7. #2167
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    As for Roach, he'll need the right situation. But, did any of us think that Jose Alvarado would be a legit NBA rotation player?
    It's not a bad comp. The problem for Jeremy is that Alvarado did pretty much everything better than Roach does. And several things (shooting, steals, efficiency stats) a LOT better.

    Code:
    Player				pts/40	oRating	dRating	PER	eFG	3pt%	asst%	to%	stl%	ws/40	BPM
    Jose Alvarado (SR)		16.4	119.7	100.5	22.2	58.6	39.0	20.7	14.3	4.5	0.179	8.1
    Jeremy Roach (JR)		15.2	105.2	101.6	13.0	45.8	34.2	18.8	13.5	2.0	0.117	2.4

  8. #2168
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    It's not a bad comp. The problem for Jeremy is that Alvarado did pretty much everything better than Roach does. And several things (shooting, steals, efficiency stats) a LOT better.

    Code:
    Player				pts/40	oRating	dRating	PER	eFG	3pt%	asst%	to%	stl%	ws/40	BPM
    Jose Alvarado (SR)		16.4	119.7	100.5	22.2	58.6	39.0	20.7	14.3	4.5	0.179	8.1
    Jeremy Roach (JR)		15.2	105.2	101.6	13.0	45.8	34.2	18.8	13.5	2.0	0.117	2.4
    Yeah, Roach is the better run/jump athlete. But Alvarado was a far better bball player at the college level.

  9. #2169
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    So, back on topic for the 2023 recruiting thread, for those of you interested, I got another, even better look at Caleb Foster last night. His Notre Dame team played Sierra Canyon for the second time in less than a week, this time in the semifinals of the league playoffs, and this time in Notre Dame's gym, which is a small, old school gym, rather than at Pauley Pavillion. I was therefore able to get a very up close view of Caleb as well as the numerous other high D-1 recruits in this game, including but not limited to Bronny James. Bronny did not play in the game last weekend, but he did last night. On the other hand, Sierra's best player, junior Isiah Elohim did not play last night as he was on crutches due to an ankle injury suffered in the previous game. This was anticipated to be a great matchup, but Notre Dame dominated, blowing Sierra Canyon out of the gym by I think it was 27 points.

    I won't bore anyone with reviews of the other outstanding prospects in this game. So what about Caleb Foster?

    This is as close as I've been able to watch Caleb, and what is very clear is that he is really a power point guard. He is a plus athlete, and he is built. He will not be getting knocked back by anybody. He has a nasty crossover, a crossover/stepback, and when he wants to beat his man and get to the rim, he can do so with no problem at least at this level. A couple of times Sierra tried to guard him with a skinny sophomore and it was a joke. No chance. It was much more challenging when Bronny guarded him, but still Caleb was pretty much able to get to his spots. Caleb pushes the ball at every opportunity, really putting pressure on the entire defense.

    His jumpshot is really something to behold. It is far from classic, as he puts what seems like waaaaay too much arc on it. Like it's gonna bring rain. But damn if that ball doesn't come down into the bottom of the net an awful lot. Not much margin for error when you shoot like that, but he really knocks them down, including from distance. And at least on this team, at this level, Caleb has no conscience. He was pulling up from the logo and launching, and hitting. Not sure those shots are going to be good enough shots in the context of the Duke offense, but dang. He ended up with 20 points to lead a balanced attack.

    What I didn't see, again, is a whole lot of distributing, and creating shots for others. Yes he passes the ball, moves it around the perimeter, but I didn't see much dishing to others for open shots. Caleb definitely gets his, but I'd have liked to see him create easy shots for teammates a bit more often. It's obviously something he needs to add to his game if he's going to play point guard, although as I think about that, Duke has had other point guards including Jeremy Roach who have not excelled in that area. I'd also like to see him add some kind of floater/runner in the lane to his repertoire, as the shotblockers coming at him at the ACC level are obviously going to be more imposing than those in high school.

    I just like the intensity with which Caleb plays. He brings it every night, and he seems to rise to the occasion even more when playing against top competition. I like that a lot. Some say he may be like a Trevon Duval in terms of his athleticism and physicality at the PG position, and his ability to move his feet on defense, but to me his long range shooting put him in a completely different category. Would sure be nice to have that type of physical player at the position next year who can also shoot it. Adding the distribution piece would complete this young man as a player. Can't wait to see him in Duke Blue!
    Thanks for the update, tommy. Isn't the other highly rated guard in that class now considered the point guard (McCain)and Foster the shooting guard? I thought someone posted that earlier.

    GoDuke!

  10. #2170
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Thanks for the update, tommy. Isn't the other highly rated guard in that class now considered the point guard (McCain)and Foster the shooting guard? I thought someone posted that earlier.

    GoDuke!
    McCain is a SG who can dribble. He's not a PG. It is unclear who will play PG next year if Roach and Proctor both leave. Foster has long been thought of as the more PG of the two prospects, but he's definitely not a "pure" PG. More of a lead guard.

  11. #2171
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    He's in a pretty tough spot after this season. We have 3 top 20 forwards coming next year, all 3 of whom are sort of the same size, and each of them could eventually make a case to play ahead of Mark. In particular, Sean Stewart appears to have a lot of positional/skillset overlap, but unlike Mark, is considered an elite athlete. I think Mark will probably declare for the draft based on that. He's shown enough shooting touch at the foul line and from the arc that with some mechanical adjustments to speed up his release, could be viewed as a good 3&D wing prospect. There's always teams in the NBA who need wing defenders with good size/strength and who do not need the ball in their hands, so I wouldn't view his decision the same as someone like DJ Steward, for example. There's much less demand for undersized shoot first guards.
    Mitchell is very likely to go undrafted if he declares.

  12. #2172
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    I disagree about all but Roach.

    Trevor Keels is currently only 19.5 and just coming into his own for the Knicks G-League squad. He's averaging 14 but has recently ripped off a few 20+ point games and is up near 40% from 3.

    Tyrese is also only 18 and has yet to fill out. He may still grow, but he has nice size for a PG.

    Mitchell needs to keep working on his shot, but he's the right size to guard 1-4 in the NBA.

    As for Roach, he'll need the right situation. But, did any of us think that Jose Alvarado would be a legit NBA rotation player?
    Mitchell has an NBA body and motor. Hes got great touch on his shot even if the release needs some adjustment. I expect hes a guy the NBA GMs will covet for potential, so Im expecting him to leave.

    Roach and Proctor are tougher calls. I hope a nice NIL deal will lure Jeremy back. Proctor also has great potential and room to develop. Seems like a borderline first/second round pick. Is he in a hurry to leave? How much does he love playing at Duke?

  13. #2173
    My expectation is that all draft discussion will shift come March. There are plenty of examples of players pushing their way into the 1st round through the NCAAT. The draft prospects for Dereck Lively have certainly shifted down and now maybe back up since the season began. Mitchell, Whitehead, Filipowski, and maybe even Proctor and Roach might all have a chance to impress or not.

  14. #2174
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Mitchell has an NBA body and motor. Hes got great touch on his shot even if the release needs some adjustment. I expect hes a guy the NBA GMs will covet for potential, so Im expecting him to leave.

    Roach and Proctor are tougher calls. I hope a nice NIL deal will lure Jeremy back. Proctor also has great potential and room to develop. Seems like a borderline first/second round pick. Is he in a hurry to leave? How much does he love playing at Duke?
    I think Proctor has more of an NBA future than Mitchell.

  15. #2175
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    I think Proctor has more of an NBA future than Mitchell.
    The NBA seems to covet tall Australian guards with great motors and a shaky shot
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  16. #2176
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Mitchell has an NBA body and motor. He’s got great touch on his shot even if the release needs some adjustment. I expect he’s a guy the NBA GMs will covet for potential, so I’m expecting him to leave.

    Roach and Proctor are tougher calls. I hope a nice NIL deal will lure Jeremy back. Proctor also has great potential and room to develop. Seems like a borderline first/second round pick. Is he in a hurry to leave? How much does he love playing at Duke?
    I believe Jason commented on the Roach/Proctor situations a few weeks ago in regards to the draft, and I believe his comments insinuated that within the inner circles its pretty much been decided that Roach will be foregoing to go pro, one way or another.

    I believe he commented at the time that the Proctor situation felt truly up in the air, but that was before he started playing better, so at this point who knows.

  17. #2177
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Thanks for the update, tommy. Isn't the other highly rated guard in that class now considered the point guard (McCain)and Foster the shooting guard? I thought someone posted that earlier.

    GoDuke!
    They both can handle the ball and they both can shoot it. I suspect both will spend time at both spots, but I suspect Foster will be more of a primary ballhandler and McCain more off the ball. But it won't be exclusively that way. More importantly: they're both ballers in the backcourt. Don't worry so much about the labels.

  18. #2178
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Mitchell has an NBA body and motor. Hes got great touch on his shot even if the release needs some adjustment. I expect hes a guy the NBA GMs will covet for potential, so Im expecting him to leave.

    Roach and Proctor are tougher calls. I hope a nice NIL deal will lure Jeremy back. Proctor also has great potential and room to develop. Seems like a borderline first/second round pick. Is he in a hurry to leave? How much does he love playing at Duke?
    Disagree. I don't think Mitchell has great touch on his shot at all. As far as his body goes, he's solid and seems long enough, but his ballhandling, jumping and his burst both look average to me. Not saying he can't find a role (assuming he reworks his jumpshot) but at his size there aren't that many guys getting meaningful minutes in the league without a better shot and/or better athleticism than Mark. Not zero, but not a lot.

    Agree with those saying Proctor is a much more intriguing prospect at this point.

  19. #2179
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Disagree. I don't think Mitchell has great touch on his shot at all. As far as his body goes, he's solid and seems long enough, but his ballhandling, jumping and his burst both look average to me. Not saying he can't find a role (assuming he reworks his jumpshot) but at his size there aren't that many guys getting meaningful minutes in the league without a better shot and/or better athleticism than Mark. Not zero, but not a lot.

    Agree with those saying Proctor is a much more intriguing prospect at this point.
    No doubt that Proctor is a far more interesting pro prospect. Behind Kyle, I'd argue that Tyrese is the next best pro prospect. Mitchell doesn't have much to offer at the offensive end - if anything, he's regressed on that end since the start of the season. He's getting his shot blocked a ton on drives to the basket. He finishes well on fast breaks, but the NBA is an offensive league. Mitchell would very likely go undrafted.

  20. #2180
    Hope we get some sophomores next year and a Senior. Id love to have Proctor, Roach and Schutt back but, with 2 new guards coming in, that seems very unlikely.

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