Star Wars: Episode 9 (The Rise of Skywalker)

[Acymetric]

The early audience reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and other sites seem to indicate that despite critics hating on the film, audiences mostly like it. It is at 86% on RT's audience rating metric, which is pretty darn good.

But, there is a piece of me that wonders if there is some kind of manipulation going on in those numbers (perhaps a die hard fan backlash at the negative reviews). I personally know more than a dozen people who saw it last night and only 3 of them said it was really good. The rest all had varying degrees of problems with the film and about a third to half of them thought it was pretty awful.

Hmmmm...

First the die hard fans are manipulating reviews to be overly negative after Last Jedi, now they're manipulating reviews to be overly positive after Rise of Skywalker?

We should probably look for a different explanation.

[luburch]

First the die hard fans are manipulating reviews to be overly negative after Last Jedi, now they're manipulating reviews to be overly positive after Rise of Skywalker?

We should probably look for a different explanation.

To be fair, it's been proven that the TLJ scores were tampered with.

[OldPhiKap]

I blame the Russians. Or the Ukrainians. One of 'em.

[Acymetric]

To be fair, it's been proven that the TLJ scores were tampered with.

Are you sure? A lot of people claimed/suspected that. Rotten Tomatoes themselves have refuted it. I haven't seen anyone "prove" it.

[luburch]

Are you sure? A lot of people claimed/suspected that. Rotten Tomatoes themselves have refuted it. I haven't seen anyone "prove" it.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/2/1...lls-bots-study

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/2...review-bombing

There was a study done that indicated the scores had likely been manipulated.

Rotten Tomatoes is going to efforts to ensure that their scores cannot be manipulated. Seems like they realized something was awry and are/did respond to it.

[Acymetric]

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/2/1...lls-bots-study

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/2...review-bombing

There was a study done that indicated the scores had likely been manipulated.

Rotten Tomatoes is going to efforts to ensure that their scores cannot be manipulated. Seems like they realized something was awry and are/did respond to it.

I've seen that study, the methodology is terrible. Essentially: We looked at tweets tagged "@rian_johnson" over a certain timeframe and determined that only 20% of them were negative, hence the audience scores on review sites must be wrong. I don't think the map between @rian_johnson twitter mentions and movie reviews is quite that linear.

FWIW, about 30% of the reviews (60,000) would have to be fraudulent (assuming only fraudulent negative reviews and no fraudulent positives) just to get it up to a 60% fresh rating.


Anyways, my main point isn't that review manipulation is impossible (although I do stand by the position that it isn't proven). My point is that "die hard fans artificially drove down Last Jedi reviews because they hate the new movies/Disney" isn't compatible with "die hard fans are artificially inflating RoS reviews". The latter is especially unlikely, because (as you mentioned) Rotten Tomatoes now requires ticket purchase verification (through Fandango, which is annoying because it is much easier just to buy through the movie theater's own site, IMO) for a review to count towards its audience score.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I’m sitting in a theater waiting for a 3:00 pm start. At 2:35 we are the only 3 people in the theater. I thought it would be packed. I am really surprised. LGD GTHc!

[Acymetric]

I’m sitting in a theater waiting for a 3:00 pm start. At 2:35 we are the only 3 people in the theater. I thought it would be packed. I am really surprised. LGD GTHc!

Are the seats assigned? I think showing up super early is kind of a thing of the past with so many theaters doing assigned seats plus ~20 minutes of trailers before the movie actually starts at 3:15-3:30.

In any case, hope you have a blast!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I’m sitting in a theater waiting for a 3:00 pm start. At 2:35 we are the only 3 people in the theater. I thought it would be packed. I am really surprised. LGD GTHc!

Are the seats assigned? I think showing up super early is kind of a thing of the past with so many theaters doing assigned seats plus ~20 minutes of trailers before the movie actually starts at 3:15-3:30.

In any case, hope you have a blast!

No, not assigned seating. We choose this theater because it doesn’t do that. Anyway, about 10 other people showed up for the showing, in a theater that seats close to 100.

I loved it! First episode I really like since VI.

[sagegrouse]

Are the seats assigned? I think showing up super early is kind of a thing of the past with so many theaters doing assigned seats plus ~20 minutes of trailers before the movie actually starts at 3:15-3:30.

In any case, hope you have a blast!

20 minutes of trailers at 2x the normal volume. I don't know what the movie operators are thinking -- it's a big negative in going out to the movies.

[-jk]

20 minutes of trailers at 2x the normal volume. I don't know what the movie operators are thinking -- it's a big negative in going out to the movies.

Between trailers, we had a theater employee literally passing a (top) hat for charity...

-jk

[crimsondevil]

20 minutes of trailers at 2x the normal volume. I don't know what the movie operators are thinking -- it's a big negative in going out to the movies.

We had literally 30 minutes of previews (I checked my watch). That is a significant disincentive to going to the theater.

[JasonEvans]

I was on the radio yesterday talking about Star Wars (and also 1917, Knives Out, and even some college basketball). Have a listen:



It is spoiler-free, of course.

[BD80]

I was on the radio yesterday talking about Star Wars (and also 1917, Knives Out, and even some college basketball). Have a listen:



It is spoiler-free, of course.

I get you were disappointed in the storyline of RoS, but to call TLJ a superior film?

Have you ever bothered to deconstruct TLJ with the meticulousness, vigor and glee with which you attack RoS? The fleet running out of gas? Gravity bombs in space? DJ? Space Vegas?

Considering the praise you heap on Rian Johnson for Knives Out (I'm not opining that it is undeserved), could it be you are biased toward RJ over JJ?

[JasonEvans]

I get you were disappointed in the storyline of RoS, but to call TLJ a superior film?

Have you ever bothered to deconstruct TLJ with the meticulousness, vigor and glee with which you attack RoS? The fleet running out of gas? Gravity bombs in space? DJ? Space Vegas?

Considering the praise you heap on Rian Johnson for Knives Out (I'm not opining that it is undeserved), could it be you are biased toward RJ over JJ?

If it was just me, I would admit there could be some bias. But all you need to do is look at the Rotten Tomatoes scores here to understand that one is a well-made movie (TLJ- 91%) and one is a bit of a mess (RoS- 57%).

The Last Jedi is not perfect -- as I mentioned earlier in this thread, my comments on it the moment I saw it pointed out that the Casino planet was a giant waste of time -- but there was just more cohesion and purpose to the plot than Rise of Skywalker. Stuff happened for a reason, not because it was convenient for the plot (other than the slow speed chase in space... ugh, that was a really bad idea). And when it soared, it really soared. There is nothing in RoS that comes even close to the Throne Room fight or Luke brushing off his shoulder before taking on Kylo.

I do agree that Rian is a far better director and writer than JJ. I don't think JJ has ever made anything as good as Knives Out or Looper. Heck, the one hour of the Breaking Bad episode Ozymandias is better than anything JJ has ever done (well, maybe the Lost pilot episode). But I did not come into this film saying JJ was a bad director and looking to find something awful on film. I like JJ's Star Wars movies and I really loved Mission Impossible III (JJ resurrected that franchise after the wretched MI2). I adored Force Awakens and had high hopes that RoS would end things as well as Force Awakens began it. But, when the film story was a mess of bad ideas that were poorly explained combined with incoherent fan service, I was ready to call a spade and spade and tell anyone who would listen that JJ really blew it.

--Jason "Kathleen Kennedy, who did not do her job as EP, and the awful co-writer Chris Terrio (other credits include BvS and Justice League) also get a large heaping of blame here" Evans

[Edouble]

-Jason "Forbes' critic says it is the worst Star Wars movie ever made... I am no going that far for sure" Evans

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme.../#583a3335113c

Yeah, I went and found the review...

I couldn't make it all the way through. Jeez, that guy needs to get a life. The weight of the world does not rest on the new Star Wars movie. I honestly really enjoyed The Rise of Skywalker. It's a fun flick.

If that guy had reviewed Star Wars when it first dropped, he would have all kinds of problems with it. "How convenient that the droids found their way to Luke" "Why didn't they shoot the escape pod?" "How did Obi-Wan become a ghost, it wasn't explained" "Why didn't the empire have a fleet of star destroyers flying around to take out the X-wings before they could even get close to the trenches?" etc etc.

Nobody seems like they are able to take it (TRoS) for what it is... a movie for kids.

The Last Jedi was boring for the most part, IMO. Kudos to JJ for getting things back on track and closing out the sequels.

[OldPhiKap]

SonPK and I just saw it. We both liked it more than VII and VIII, which perhaps is damning with faint praise.

And yes, we both noted that if you took the SW Universe really seriously, or you are expecting high cinema, you could pick it to death. It is what it is.

[jimsumner]

We had literally 30 minutes of previews (I checked my watch). That is a significant disincentive to going to the theater.

It's not the previews that drive me (further) nuts as much as the commercials, the same blasted commercials I see on TV and I can't mute them or change to weather-on-the-ones or whatever. My son and I went to a "2:45" showing and the previews didn't even start until 2:55, the movie about 3:10.

[Wander]

I get you were disappointed in the storyline of RoS, but to call TLJ a superior film?

Have you ever bothered to deconstruct TLJ with the meticulousness, vigor and glee with which you attack RoS? The fleet running out of gas? Gravity bombs in space? DJ? Space Vegas?

Considering the praise you heap on Rian Johnson for Knives Out (I'm not opining that it is undeserved), could it be you are biased toward RJ over JJ?

Uh, TLJ was a top 3 Star Wars movie for me (along with the two everyone agrees on, ANH and ESB), so I have no problem saying it is easily superior to ROS. It has a great, meaningful, and emotional storyline for the main character, and I'm very happy with how Kylo, Luke, Leia, and Poe were all handled as well. It might be my favorite ending of all the movies (along with Rogue One), and has lots of great visuals with the throne room scene and the "bleeding" salt planet. The gravity bomb and Leia flying through space stuff are no different to me than all the incorrect space physics/Force power stuff in every movie. Really my main complaint was that I think Luke should have survived, and I also agree with you that the Finn sidequest and the ship-fuel stuff was a bit weak.

[CameronBornAndBred]

As I said, we've been rewatching the movies from IV up. Tonight, we started TFA. (Some nights we do the whole movie, but gf is antsy, so usually do 1/2 a night.)
To quote Eric Cartman..."Screw you guys, I'm going home!"

It's fun. It's a A LOT of fun. It's been a while since I've seen it. Yeah, it follows a similar story, but since it's the story we were given, I'm having a blast watching what was done with it. GF is too.
Our plan is to watch ROS on New Years Day.