Cameron Attendance

[Wander]

Are you implying that threads about paltry attendance are less than worthy?

Might they even make it into his super-cool handbook list?

[devildeac]

Just to add another couple thoughts to the attendance 'issue'

1. Some students have classes in the evenings. I do not know the number of classes or student numbers in those classes to comment further. Perhaps some current undergrads could post some class sizes/numbers. My daughter has a seminar that meets from 630-930PM on Monday this semester so she was a bit peeved about a Monday night game(but, then again, no one asked her ).

2. There are rehearsals for some of the 1/4 or 1/2 credit classes in the evenings also. I am referring to the Duke Chorale/Jazz Ensemble/Wind Symphony/Orchestra. Ditto for my daughter again for the Chorale. These are usually 2 nights/week for the chorale. I can't speak for the other groups. Each of these student groups have 50-75 participants so the numbers add up.

(Of course, if she had tried out for cheerleading and made the squad, the above activities would be excluded. She would also be going to Maui on Friday and we would probably have figured out some way to plan our schedules so we could make the journey, too ) Oh well, perhaps next year...

[shadowfax336]

on there being room empty at the ends, I was front row half court so I couldn't really see down there. I just saw that we were packed to the back and that people kept squeezing into the middle.

As far as people not going due to classes, etc. I'd like to say that was a valid reason but its probably not because there are not all that many night classes, and very few activities occur on monday nights. The activities can be reasons for missing mid-week games (lots of stuff happens Wed/Thurs nights) but monday nights there are very few classes/meetings/events. However I should point out that it is midterms week. While I understand that Duke students have packed Cameron before during midterms weeks and hopefully will again, I'm just trying to explain some of the possible reasons/rationales/excuses here.

[LetItBD08]

devildeac- you are right that Monday night is still a popular time to have class and just a general busy time for students in general in my opinon. No excuse though, I wish more people planned ahead and rearranged their stuff so they could get to the game. Luckily nearly all of our other games this year are on the weekend so that won't come into play.

shadowfax-it's really tough to tell when you're in the student section - everything around you looks packed (mainly why I was oblivious to all these talks about Cameron not filling up last year), but there was room on the sides.

I think during the week a lot of students are adapting the mentality "I just got out of class, game's in a little while, I could go stand in the corner for a half an hour before game time, exhaust myself (it is a good workout in the student section), watch the game with limiited sightlines, and then run back to do hw OR I could pick up dinner and watch the game on national TV from the comfort of my dorm and then be well rested for all the other work that's piled on before finals." I KNOW all you alums are thinking "in my day this wouldn't go down," but I think this mentality is starting to creep up more and more. I also know that there are 1000 of us who aren't like that at all. We make sure to get to the games early, consider it heaven, and leave nothing behind. We're also doing our very best to get those people who stick with the latter scenerio to fill up the stands. I hope that especially for the first two games we did not disappoint. We're giving it all not for us (as in the 'yay we're Cameron Crazies we must be loud and witty so we could tell our friends back home' attitude) or you guys, but because the team deserves it and they should not lose that HUGE home court advantage. Incoherent rant over.

[eran]

There is actually a fairly large and relatively untapped fanbase here at Duke that can't go to the games. Postdoctoral fellows, who just finished grad school and now came to Duke to do more research, are paid at a level that means we can really only afford to pay scalpers for one or two games per year. Sure many of them will cheer for another school or two (undergrad and grad school), but in our lab alone there are 6 of us that would love to go to a game and 4 of us are rabid Duke fans. In addition to the postdocs, the medical fellows are also paid relatively poorly and would love to go to the games - there are another 2 fellows in our lab alone that would love tickets.

Sadly, postdocs and fellows don't come under the GPSC umbrella and can't campout for tickets.

Yeah, enough complaining... but if we're short on people to go to Cameron, sign us up!

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

That's a good point, eran, and I think it highlights what I see as a gulf of communication between the two "sides" (i.e. people without tickets arguing that Cameron is too empty and people with tickets they aren't using arguing that work/classes/social life/whatever deserves some time as well). When the (increasingly regular) complaints about empty seats starts up, and usually followed by a call to reduce student seats, it is usually taken by the students as a critique: "You guys aren't good fans like we were. You must be punished. We're taking away your seats." This frustrating because work/classes/etc. ARE important and being lectured by some old fuddy-duddy about how you are "letting down the team" by choosing to study for a hard class isn't fun.

The thing is, concern about empty seats in Cameron isn't (or at least shouldn't be) about that. It is about making sure the team has a full house for every game and making sure that, as much as possible, everyone who wants to come and cheer for the team gets a chance. Not about judgment, not about one-upsmanship. Just the team and the fans.

The fact is, early season games, and especially those near the holidays, have been conspicuously empty for quite a few years. This isn't because "those darn kids aren't real Duke fans," it's because a natural and entirely predictable combination of factors makes those games less enticing and accessible. If we know this ahead of time, why not let the thousands of folks who work at Duke, live in Durham, etc. get a shot? There are so many tremendous Duke fans that have been to only a handful of games (if that) because they aren't rich and are no longer, or never were students.

I know it's been said a thousand times before, but it is frustrating beyond belief for folks without any realistic access to tickets to see empty seats, above or below the railing. This isn't because we're disappointed with those not using them. Everyone understands that classes/work/children's recital/whatever is just as important as coming out for the team. It's because so many fans would LOVE to be in those seats and wish there was a way to access that very scarce but unused opportunity. So let's talk about filling empty seats with things like the ticket exchange board, making it a point to pass on every unused ticket to a friend-of-a-friend, and even cutting back on student allotments for games that everyone agrees are less attractive to students. Let's not do these things as a punitive measure or a way to scold the current students and seatholders, but as a way to make sure the team gets the support it deserves (even if it's not top 5) and the fans get a chance to fill empty seats and cheer for their team.

[Devilsfan]

Classes were not called off because of the game. Some students, believe it or not, may have had homework. Remember this is not you typical southern party school, students come to Duke knowing its difficult academic requirements. Also I don't believe that teams don't fully support each other enough. I wonder how many basketball players were in the stands Saturday for the football game? Also, they were not playing a national powerhouse or an ACC opponent. The students that were able to attend were very supportive and and very vocal. Hope that's enough excuses.

I thought it was a good croud.

[Indoor66]

That's a good point, eran, and I think it highlights what I see as a gulf of communication between the two "sides" (i.e. people without tickets arguing that Cameron is too empty and people with tickets they aren't using arguing that work/classes/social life/whatever deserves some time as well). When the (increasingly regular) complaints about empty seats starts up, and usually followed by a call to reduce student seats, it is usually taken by the students as a critique: "You guys aren't good fans like we were. You must be punished. We're taking away your seats." This frustrating because work/classes/etc. ARE important and being lectured by some old fuddy-duddy about how you are "letting down the team" by choosing to study for a hard class isn't fun.

The thing is, concern about empty seats in Cameron isn't (or at least shouldn't be) about that. It is about making sure the team has a full house for every game and making sure that, as much as possible, everyone who wants to come and cheer for the team gets a chance. Not about judgment, not about one-upsmanship. Just the team and the fans.

The fact is, early season games, and especially those near the holidays, have been conspicuously empty for quite a few years. This isn't because "those darn kids aren't real Duke fans," it's because a natural and entirely predictable combination of factors makes those games less enticing and accessible. If we know this ahead of time, why not let the thousands of folks who work at Duke, live in Durham, etc. get a shot? There are so many tremendous Duke fans that have been to only a handful of games (if that) because they aren't rich and are no longer, or never were students.

I know it's been said a thousand times before, but it is frustrating beyond belief for folks without any realistic access to tickets to see empty seats, above or below the railing. This isn't because we're disappointed with those not using them. Everyone understands that classes/work/children's recital/whatever is just as important as coming out for the team. It's because so many fans would LOVE to be in those seats and wish there was a way to access that very scarce but unused opportunity. So let's talk about filling empty seats with things like the ticket exchange board, making it a point to pass on every unused ticket to a friend-of-a-friend, and even cutting back on student allotments for games that everyone agrees are less attractive to students. Let's not do these things as a punitive measure or a way to scold the current students and seatholders, but as a way to make sure the team gets the support it deserves (even if it's not top 5) and the fans get a chance to fill empty seats and cheer for their team.

Well said. I no longer live in the area and no longer attend games regularly. I know may folks in Durham who are life long Duke fans who have rarely, if ever, attended a game at Cameron. Many would attend if they could get tickets in advance of the game. Most of those folks would not seek out scalpers or go to Cameron with a hope of finding a ticket. A strong exchange program would be a plus for town/gown relationships.

Maybe this issue ties into the other posts (in several threads) about the level of organization is the athletic department. An exchange program requires coordination and organization as well as a REAL desire to make it work. I hope the administration moves in this direction.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Indoor, that's also a great point about the scalpers. I know a lot of folks with families that don't want to bring their kids to Cameron and risk a) not being able to find a scalper (not likely), b) no tickets being left, c) getting ripped off (either because they aren't good at haggling with scalpers or because they get sold fake/duplicate tickets, and d) potentially get fined or arrested for engaging in illegal activity in front of their kids.

If you're single and savvy scalpers can be a fine way to go. But I'd hate to be the dad that gets his kids dressed up and excited about going to a Duke game, only to have to take his heartbroken kids home (and miss the game) with no or bogus tickets, or even worse in a squad car.

[throatybeard]

Part of the problem here is that we're talking about BB and not FB. Which is to say you've got, including exhibition games. like 20 homes games a year, and half or more of them on weeknights. That's a big difference from 6 Saturday home games like you have in FB.

Just about everybody's got problems filling the stadium in basketball with all these games against East Bojangles State and UW-Green Bay. (No disrespect meant to those schools). There are no-shows at all but the most sought-after events in sport. It's simply unrealistic to think all ticketholders (and the students basically count as such) are going to be able to drop everything on a Monday night to see Dead Old Duke put a hurting on EBSU and the Fighting Dirty Rice.

It's a calendar issue. We pretty much define football haplessness, and there are still more Duke bodies at a FB game than Cameron holds. Games are on Saturday.

[Buckeye Devil]

to see a Duke game if I could get a ticket for an even meaningless game just to come to Cameron and see the Devils Play.

[throatybeard]

to see a Duke game if I could get a ticket for an even meaningless game just to come to Cameron and see the Devils Play.

You can. You can get face value scalpies from season ticket holders 0-20 mins before tip, especially with these meaningless early season games.

[B-well]

When I stared this years thread regarding Cameron Attendance, I was hoping to generate some ideas about how we can put Duke Fans in the seats in Cameron - upstairs, downstairs, blue zone, wherever.

There are no unimportant Duke games - some are just more important than others.

To a lot of Duke fans, a chance to see Duke play anybody in Cameron is a dream. TV coverage of Duke is phenominal (somebody said "Duke is on TV so much, I thought they were a Soap Opera"), but there is nothing like the "our house" experience and being part of the support for the Blue Devils.

I am disappointed when there is even one empty seat in Cameron - it is embarassing to hear the Athletic Department brag about our string of continuous sellouts when there are hundreds of empty seats for more than half the ganes.

It doesn't matter to me which Duke Fan is in what seats - I JUST WANT TO FILL THE EMPTY SEATS WITH DUKE FANS.

Please knock off the reasons, excuses, recriminations and denials. PLEASE FOCUS ON HOW TO FILL EVERY SEAT EVERY GAME.

Here is a idea to get things started:
1. Set up a large screen TV in Card Gym or some other large room near Cameron, provide concession and Duke store outlets.
2. Let people (hopefully Duke Fans) gather there and sign in like they do at most restaurants for admission to Cameron to fill empty seats.
3. Charge them $10 per seat when they register - non-refundable - they get to see the game in a crowd of other Duke fans at a minimum.
4. At various times after tip-off, fill empty seats in Cameron with people from the Card Crowd - they may even become know as the Card Crazies. I suppose the migrations could take place during timeouts.
5. For those folks who don't make it into Cameron, give them front of the line privileges for the next game.

This would let people take a chance on getting into Cameron at a reasonable cost - the seats are already paid for - this is not a revenue issue.

One of the fears of the unticketed Duke Fan is that they will not be able to get to a TV in time to watch the game if they are unsuccessful in getting a ticket from a scalper or last minute Iron Duke.

OKAY GUYS - LET'S HEAR IT!!!!!

[captmojo]

Sounds reasonable but how do you decide who gets in? Lottery perhaps?

[gep]

Sounds reasonable but how do you decide who gets in? Lottery perhaps?

Seems like the restaurant analogy would mean that it's "first come, first served"... Problem I see with that, is if you "open" the sign-up line at a specified time, you'll probably get a bunch of folks standing in line waiting for the "open" time, and it will look like the students waiting to get in to Cameron. But, this does seem like a cool idea... if you don't get in to Cameron, you still get to watch the game on "big" screen TV with a bunch of Duke fans... kinda like how Duke fans get to watch the Final Four on big screen TV in Cameron, which apparently works well

[B-well]

So far as I could tell Tuesday night, there was not an empty seat on the lower level of Cameron - and the Crazies were into the game for all but a short stretch after halftime.

There were about 250 empty seats in the upper level despite it being "sold out." I guess IRON DUKES who can't attend for some reason are not maling their tickets available to the ticket exchange system in time for them to be passed on to other IRON DUKES who do not have Cameron seats. Maybe that system doesn't work. Anybody have any experience using it?

Given all the reasons we've heard as to why students might not fill their seats, their should have been empty student seats for the Wisconsin game - (week night, late game, non-conference, etc., etc.). What was different?

[bdh21]

Given all the reasons we've heard as to why students might not fill their seats, their should have been empty student seats for the Wisconsin game - (week night, late game, non-conference, etc., etc.). What was different?

Top 20 opponent

[Methodistman]

Hey - we were given tickets just beside the band under one of the goals (section 18, to be exact) by our marketing guy. There were quite a few empty seats around us, which was kinda nice because other than the band, we had a bunch of Badger fans around us - of course, they were pretty quiet other than terping about the refs.

It killed me during every time out when the PA would say, "Come join us for the next home game . . ." - yeah right, as if I could!

[loran16]

We;ve had at least almost full attendence for all home games this year....even before the wisconsin game.

What # of people who registered didnt show, was easily made up for by the large amount of people on the walk up line.

[dukemomLA]

I agree. I find it disgusting that there is EVER an empty seat in Cameron. I am 3000 miles away, so there's no way I can get to most games. But if I were within 100-200 miles, I'd be there in a nanosecond!

Let's try to figure out who "owns" the empty seats, which give us a full 9,314 attendance on record to all games, and...make sure they give their tickets to those who would die to get in there and shout and cheer.

I'm astounded by ANY empty seat over the last 5 years. AWFUL!!! And beyond.