Tried to spork you for this one. I understand and I respect those that make the argument for Zion to have his jersey retired. There is obviously tremendous weight given to the NP0Y. Made me think of a hypothetical. Suppose a player stays all 4 years and is okay for 3. Makes no All ACC teams but blows up his last year and wins a NPOY. Would we value that over a player that is at Duke for 4 years, scores over 2,000 points, shoots over 50% from the field, Is very near 1,000 rebounds, Makes All American team twice.
This thread is bringing out the "mother" in me.
I'm considering getting my wooden spoon and chasing you all outside to go rake up sticks and start spreading spring mulch.
Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'
It is great to see the individual players rewarded with their numbers in the rafters, but I wonder if the players remember the team achievements more.
I am sure Nolan, Jon, Chris and Nate look in the rafters and see ACC championship, Final 4 and national championship banners with their names prominently written on them (with invisible ink).
I don't know if he's bigger than Duke or not...but he's huge. Besides, you can't separate Duke and Zion (for six more games)....so would Zion at Clemson be anywhere near as big? No. He'd be big, but nothing like he is now. Win/win for team, coach, player and university. But I agree, I've never seen a player anything like him in so many ways.
They don't have to retire 1. No one else would want it now. No way to live up to it. I figure #1 will be unofficially yet thoroughly retired.
This again?
Counterpoint: Zion is bigger than jersey retirement.
Duke created a Hall of Honor for players who don't meet the retirement criteria. Brand is in it. Think of it as similar to Carolina's "honored" jerseys. Both have official requirements (NPOY, NDPOY, 1st team A-A, ACC POY, Multiple Year 1st Team All-ACC, Olympic Gold Medalist). Once Zion was named ACC POY, he was eligible. Once Barrett won a major first team A-A award, he joined him. They will not get their jerseys retired.
Also, to be clear, there is an ACC Regular-Season Champion, it is not the ACC Champion, but there has been a trophy since 1990 (i.e. the Clemson rule). Duke retroactively changed all of its banners in 2007 to recognize Regular Season and Tournament Champions, in line with all of the other ACC schools after previously declining to do so.
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Mike Stein
Trinity '97, Tent #1 '97
Tampa
much of the argument is steeped in ACC history. back in the day, the ACC said it's tournament champion was the official ACC champion. This was an important distinction when conferences like the Ivy league awarded their championship, and thus NCAA berth, to the team with the best regular season record. Times have long since passed when:
a) league championships were the only thing that determined bids
b) leagues only got 1 bid to the NCAA
c) major leagues cold play a schedule which was considered fair enough to determine a champion in the first place
d) leagues have to worry about designating multiple champions in such a way that they might have to worry about who gets the leagues single automatic bid.
In short:
Yes, the team that wins the tournament is an "ACC champion"
Yes, that team gets an automatic qualifier and banner.
Yes, the team that finishes with the best record is an "ACC champion"
Yes, that team gets a banner and recognition from the league.
No, the schedule that awarded them that might be fair.
No, I don't care.
Yes, go ahead and complain that it's not as valuable a title.
No, I still don't care.
Yes, I understand that you've been a duke fan since before I was born and have major respect for that.
No, I still won't denigrate a distinction for which Duke would hang a banner for should they earn.
I get it. People yearn for how things were. Hell, I grew up a big east/uconn fan. You don't think I miss how things used to be?
That doesn't mean we shouldn't set out to have the best regular season record every year, and that doesn't mean we should poo-poo teams that do, when we are unsuccessful at the same. There is merit in playing great over the course of a year just as there is merit in winning a single elimination tournament. For better or worse, Duke hasn't been as consistently successful at either as they might have been at X previous time.
But this semantic argument of who is the "true" ACC champion is so overblown. Everybody gives their bid to the tournament champ. Doesn't the Ivy league now as well, even? Trying to call people out for semantics is so incredibly petty. The ACC allows you to hang banners for either, Duke hangs banners for either, Duke values either. If K can stoop so low as to acknowledge a regular season crown as a banner-worthy accomplishment, then so can we.
April 1