2019 South Region Thread (Virginia #1)

[dudog84]

This is either the absolute best or absolute worst place to say this, but is it blasphemy to compare Kihei Clark’s pass to Grant Hill’s? The stakes were the same. The pass itself was shorter and marginally less difficult, but he had to make the decision and the pass with the clock moving.

“We won’t know until we know the final outcome of the season” is a perfectly valid answer, of course. The Laettner play wouldn’t have the same luster if Duke had lost in the next game, just like the Diakite play would be tarnished if the Hoos had lost in OT.

Time will tell.

It certainly was significantly more difficult. Not a set play diagrammed by the best coach ever for two of the best college basketball players of all time. Laettner even had time for a dribble, Diakite did not and had to understand in the moment that he didn’t have time, plus there was less margin for error on the pass.

It could. If Virginia goes on to win the championship, and moves to a dominance that brings 5 more championships in the next 25 years, it could. There is certainly a large segment of basketball fans, especially from a certain state, that would love to see it supplant the Laettner shot. Plus we know the power of recency bias (though that kinda cuts both ways since the Laettner shot is so established).

Factors against it: It was not a game-winning shot. It was not made between what remain two of the most recognizable faces in basketball. It was not a game between two of the most iconic programs in history (Kentucky was one of the top two (with UCLA), and even then Duke was top 10 and rising as defending champs and the current team that went wire-to-wire #1 that year). There was also the announcers’ call and the unforgettable video of the moments after the shot (Laettner running down court, Thomas Hill’s face on the sidelines, etc.).

My apologies to others who have made a few of the same arguments as I've thought about this since last night. Regardless, congrats to the Hoos and their fans!

[Wahoo2000]

To those still saying that you wouldn't foul up three, consider all of this:

The final play of regulation had so many truly improbable elements to it:

1) Missed free throw was a "perfect" miss (albeit accidental - Jerome confirmed postgame he was trying to make it and short-armed the shot) off the front of the rim; only way UVA had a shot at a rebound.

2) Diakite batted the ball instead of a 7'3" dude for Purdue.

3) A freshman point guard who had had his lunch eaten by Carsen Edwards all night ran down the ball.

4) Same freshman PG had the presence of mind to look for an open man with 2 seconds left instead of jacking a half court shot that had no chance of going in.

5) Same freshman PG looks off BOTH Kyle Guy (best shooter in our history) and Ty Jerome (probably our most clutch player) then fires a perfect pass, to Diakite at the short wing. This was Clark's only assist in the entire second half.

6) Diakite catches and shoots in one motion, over the outstretched hands of Haarms at 7'3. Only way there was enough time for the shot to count.

7) And the ball goes in. It was Diakite's only basket of the second half.

Do you have any idea how infinitesimal are the odds of all 7 of those things happening in 5 seconds? It was literally a miracle play. We could replay that last 5.9 seconds one hundred times, and I'm pretty sure we'd win less than 3-5 times. Even a tough/contested 3 from Guy or Jerome probably goes in 20ish percent of the time. Even considering Purdue's rebounding issues, it was absolutely the right move for Purdue to foul (by the percentages, not the result), especially considering that WE were in the 1-and-1.

Miracle, miracle, miracle. This will never be played up there with Laettner's shot, Jordan's title winner, or even Lorenzo Charles' tip in - those others all involved much bigger programs or much bigger stages. Still, for me, just based on the storylines of our repeated failures to get to a FF, and the unlikeliness of it all (I think more difficult/unlikely than any of the ones mentioned above) - it's MY personal #1 moment in March all-time.

[Phredd3]

Still, for me, just based on the storylines of our repeated failures to get to a FF, and the unlikeliness of it all (I think more difficult/unlikely than any of the ones mentioned above) - it's MY personal #1 moment in March all-time.

As it should be. Congratulations on making the FF.

Now here's hoping that the late game tonight is a nice, boring Duke win with no memorable moments at all.

[curtis325]

As it should be. Congratulations on make the FF.

Now here's hoping that the late game tonight is a nice, boring Duke win with no memorable moments at all.

About 10 memorable dunks by Zion would be OK.

[Wahoo2000]

As it should be. Congratulations on making the FF.

Now here's hoping that the late game tonight is a nice, boring Duke win with no memorable moments at all.

I mean, if you could guarantee victory in advance, wouldn't you rather it be a classic contest rather than a blowout? ;-)

[Phredd3]

About 10 memorable dunks by Zion would be OK.

But mere icing on the cake.

Meanwhile, I'm watching tonight on tape delay (OK, hard drive delay), so an additional benefit of a nice, quiet win would be the ability to sleep right away after I finally see the game. The last couple of games have been like having a hangover: The next day featured pleasant, foggy memories, but were a little painful.

[MChambers]

Second that.

Now then, has anyone here followed Michigan State closely this year? I’m trying to figure out how they can be so good after having lost two starters. Did they have such a loaded roster that they can survive two massive losses like that and still be a great team? I have to believe that any other team that were to lose two starters would be cannon fodder for Duke in this game. Are they really as good as they appear to be and as they are being talked about or is this the game where the loss of those two starters proves to be too much to overcome?

Wrong thread?

[BandAlum83]

To those still saying that you wouldn't foul up three, consider all of this:

The final play of regulation had so many truly improbable elements to it:

1) Missed free throw was a "perfect" miss (albeit accidental - Jerome confirmed postgame he was trying to make it and short-armed the shot) off the front of the rim; only way UVA had a shot at a rebound.

2) Diakite batted the ball instead of a 7'3" dude for Purdue.

3) A freshman point guard who had had his lunch eaten by Carsen Edwards all night ran down the ball.

4) Same freshman PG had the presence of mind to look for an open man with 2 seconds left instead of jacking a half court shot that had no chance of going in.

5) Same freshman PG looks off BOTH Kyle Guy (best shooter in our history) and Ty Jerome (probably our most clutch player) then fires a perfect pass, to Diakite at the short wing. This was Clark's only assist in the entire second half.

6) Diakite catches and shoots in one motion, over the outstretched hands of Haarms at 7'3. Only way there was enough time for the shot to count.

7) And the ball goes in. It was Diakite's only basket of the second half.

Do you have any idea how infinitesimal are the odds of all 7 of those things happening in 5 seconds? It was literally a miracle play. We could replay that last 5.9 seconds one hundred times, and I'm pretty sure we'd win less than 3-5 times. Even a tough/contested 3 from Guy or Jerome probably goes in 20ish percent of the time. Even considering Purdue's rebounding issues, it was absolutely the right move for Purdue to foul (by the percentages, not the result), especially considering that WE were in the 1-and-1.

Miracle, miracle, miracle. This will never be played up there with Laettner's shot, Jordan's title winner, or even Lorenzo Charles' tip in - those others all involved much bigger programs or much bigger stages. Still, for me, just based on the storylines of our repeated failures to get to a FF, and the unlikeliness of it all (I think more difficult/unlikely than any of the ones mentioned above) - it's MY personal #1 moment in March all-time.

I’m pretty sure that in 100 attempts, Clark makes that perfect pass only once. Miraculous indeed!

Congratulations to all our Wahoo friends on the DBR forum!

If we get that far, I hope to see you In the final. I’m not to keen on giving UK a shot at redemtion. Although there would be a great symmetry to spanking UK to open and close the season.

[Skydog]

Biggest reasons Laettner's shot was legendary, while VA sequence was 'merely' amazing:

1. Outcome of shot: Laettner shot won game, VA play earned chance to play OT.
2. National Reputation of Teams: Duke was 28-2, defending champs and ranked #1. Duke players were rock stars, adored and more often hated. Kentucky was KENTUCKY. Not plucky Purdue.
3. Drama leading up to last play: Duke leads 45-40 at half, then back and forth including Laettner "stomp". Kentucky finally ties game with 33.6 secs left in regulation. But Hurley gets off shot to win game! And misses. OT: Back and forth, Kentucky takes lead 98-6, but Laettner goes on roll scores Dukes next 6 points and makes go-ahead basket with 7.8 secs left! Duke fans go wild! But of course Kentucky comes length of floor and makes a running 1-hander over Laettner with 2.1 seconds left. Game over, Kentucky wins! Just have to go through last play formality. Compare to VA drama before tying basket. Exciting game back and forth, amazing 3 pt shootout and great plays, but all within regulation.
4. Set-up for last play: Yes, Duke has a timeout, but come on, really? Under own basket with 2.1 secs left? Kentucky is probably 99% to win at that point. It's true that VA looks headed for a loss being down 3 with 17 secs to go and even worse when fouled with with 5 sec remaining. Ouch, really looks bad for Cavs. But it didn't feel like game was quite over. Lot of things can happen with ft's, rebound, fouls, tipped rebounds, turnovers.
5. Last play: Only way to win is full court length pass, catch and shoot. Up and coming star Grant Hill makes pinpoint 75ft pass to the conceited Laettner, who calmly dribbles, turns and swish. Game over! Hated/envied Duke sends Kentucky's four-senior-led class home in tears!!
VA last play: The specific way VA forced OT with the ft miss, Clark's composure and brilliance and Diakite's finish were truly amazing, maybe even more so than the Hill-Laettner sequence. But there were a lot of ways VA could win with a miss ft and the way it actually occurred was mostly appreciated after the play. And by them everyone was thinking about OT.

Bottom line - Purdue fans weren't already celebrating win when the final play started, and crying when it finished. Sadly (happily) for Kentucky fans, can't say the same.