MBB: Duke 73, Florida St 63 Post-Game Thread (2019 ACC Champs!)

[MChambers]

Give them a break. Without them,and CD Chesley, a lot of what you take for granted might not have happened. They gave a lot to the ACC, and the ACC and ESPN’s greed has taken it away.

And ESPN dropped coverage a lot sooner.

Raycom has been great. Very fitting to have Duke win the ACC Championship in Raycom's last game.

Also, without Raycom, I'd have had to listen to Bilas (or mute the audio) and watch replay after replay showing how Duke gets all the calls. Hope some of the good Raycom folks, like Gman, are hired by the new ACC Network.

[sagegrouse]

Good Assist to Turnover (just so you know Tre Jones Assist to turnover second half of this year was twice, yes twice as bad as first half of the year). UNCHECKED BOX
Last night team had 11 Assists 13 Turnovers

Rmarkste -- This is an insightful post overall, but you should reconsider either your thinking or your wording on this comment. Something about "lies, damned lies and statistics." Tre's assist-to-turnover ratio at the beginning of the season was unheard of -- way beyond ridiculous -- 6:1 for the first eight games. The last eight games, the A/TO ratio is 2.3:1. That's pretty good; it is wrong to say it's "twice as bad" as a number seldom achieved by anyone.

[DukieInBrasil]

That was a total team win.

Solid contributions from everyone. Zion and RJ did their thing, while Cam played under control, hit his free throws and that back breaking bomb at the end. Tre sure picked a great game to go all Tyus, but I've got to give a huge shout out to Javin. The kid bounced back from a horrible game yesterday and did so against a very imposing frontline. Jack had a rough night courtesy of the officials and I hope his hammy is ok. Jordan also did his thing and every minute we get from him helps a starter get some rest.

Let's move on and hopefully we get to see what Mr. Bolden can add to the storyline next weekend.

Kedsy addresses this complaint that many have lodged vs Javin and his play vs uNC, and i agree with Kedsy, his performance vs uNC was fine, not the best, but good. He missed an easy bunny and had the ball knocked out of his hands on a couple of occasions but that's not unusual for him. His statline vs uNC was better than his average for the season.

I'm happy people are giving Javin some (in my opinion well-deserved) praise for his performance tonight, but I'm puzzled when they say stuff like the above quoted line (which a lot of people did, not singling out azzefkram). Below are Javin's stats for the two games in question:

vs. FSU: 23 minutes; 6 points on 2 for 4 shooting; 7 rebounds; 4 fouls; 1 assist; 1 turnover; 1 block; 2 steals

vs. UNC: 15 minutes; 5 points on 2 for 5 shooting; 6 rebounds; 4 fouls; 1 assist; 0 turnovers; 1 block; 0 steals

OK, he had more fouls per minute against UNC, but also more rebounds per minute and points per minute (and blocks per minute and assists per minute). He had no steals against UNC, but also no turnovers. Overall, I'd say these two lines are pretty close, and I didn't think his defense against UNC was appreciably worse than it was against FSU. So, like I say, I'm puzzled.

[Bob Green]

The last eight games, the A/TO ratio is 2.3:1. That's pretty good; it is wrong to say it's "twice as bad" as a number seldom achieved by anyone.

Tre Jones is #3 in the Nation in A/TO ratio at 3.59:1. He has 165 assists and 46 turnovers:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketbal...individual/473

[Wander]

I'm happy people are giving Javin some (in my opinion well-deserved) praise for his performance tonight, but I'm puzzled when they say stuff like the above quoted line (which a lot of people did, not singling out azzefkram). Below are Javin's stats for the two games in question:

vs. FSU: 23 minutes; 6 points on 2 for 4 shooting; 7 rebounds; 4 fouls; 1 assist; 1 turnover; 1 block; 2 steals

vs. UNC: 15 minutes; 5 points on 2 for 5 shooting; 6 rebounds; 4 fouls; 1 assist; 0 turnovers; 1 block; 0 steals

OK, he had more fouls per minute against UNC, but also more rebounds per minute and points per minute (and blocks per minute and assists per minute). He had no steals against UNC, but also no turnovers. Overall, I'd say these two lines are pretty close, and I didn't think his defense against UNC was appreciably worse than it was against FSU. So, like I say, I'm puzzled.

Javin's value, especially with Bolden out, is to stay on the court and play good defense, and his biggest weakness is foul trouble. So I don't think it makes sense to normalize by minutes; the fact that he got to stay on the court over 50% more time against FSU than against UNC is the biggest reason why he had a better performance in that game.

[ncexnyc]

Kedsy addresses this complaint that many have lodged vs Javin and his play vs uNC, and i agree with Kedsy, his performance vs uNC was fine, not the best, but good. He missed an easy bunny and had the ball knocked out of his hands on a couple of occasions but that's not unusual for him. His statline vs uNC was better than his average for the season.

Feel free to agree with whoever you want, but I'll stick with my original take on Javin's play.

Stats are meaningless without context. There's a huge difference in an outfielder in baseball catching 3 routine fly balls and that same outfielder making 1 routine catch and 2 outstanding catches that take away runs.

[FerryFor50]

Kedsy addresses this complaint that many have lodged vs Javin and his play vs uNC, and i agree with Kedsy, his performance vs uNC was fine, not the best, but good. He missed an easy bunny and had the ball knocked out of his hands on a couple of occasions but that's not unusual for him. His statline vs uNC was better than his average for the season.

I feel like the same people that think Javin played badly against UNC also think Vrank was awesome against UNC. Both had solid plays. Both got out of position on defense that led to scores or bad fouls. But Vrank likely gets more credit because it was unexpected. Maybe our expectations of Javin are too high - I’ve always looked at him as an energy guy who can get rebounds, block shots, take charges and anything he scores is gravy.

People who think he can’t finish around the basket forget that he’s shooting over 70% from the field and had a stretch of 19 made FGs in a row. Even Zion has missed some bunnies this season.

[killerleft]

Impressions from Charlotte, before reading the post-game thread:

St. Paddy's Day and Duke in the finals gives Charlotte a vibrant party atmosphere. Green and Duke Blue go together very well, thank you very much!

Charlotte has a great downtown, and the skyline is beautiful day and night.

The Spectrum Center is a very nice venue. The big board shows an amazing number of replays in a timely fashion.

The "Zion Effect" may give us the unaccustomed role of crowd favorite at times in the NCAAs, if the ACC Tournament is any indication. Pulling against this team is not easy. Even the Tar Heel fans could only half-heartedly (as a group, mind you) cheer against the Devils.

My Zion moment (duh) was the exquisite fast break pass to Tre Jones. My Javin 'frozen in time' moment happened several times after he secured a big rebound. But my favorite thing from this game was the defense. When these guys focus, they can really hound an opposing team.

Florida State admiration sentences: Leonard Hamilton has the best feel for calling timeouts at the right time of any coach I have seen. And what he says must be golden. Not golden enough, though, this go 'round.

Imagine the Smiley Image again, four is the limit! Go Duke!

Edit: Oh, and thanks to the DBRer who suggested the free employee parking lot!

[dukelifer]

I feel like the same people that think Javin played badly against UNC also think Vrank was awesome against UNC. Both had solid plays. Both got out of position on defense that led to scores or bad fouls. But Vrank likely gets more credit because it was unexpected. Maybe our expectations of Javin are too high - I’ve always looked at him as an energy guy who can get rebounds, block shots, take charges and anything he scores is gravy.

People who think he can’t finish around the basket forget that he’s shooting over 70% from the field and had a stretch of 19 made FGs in a row. Even Zion has missed some bunnies this season.

All I know is that you need role players to step up in a championship run. One thing about Zion - beyond his incredible b-ball skill- is that he provides energy to his team. He plays so hard. Javin gave amazing effort in all the games knowing that he pretty much the only big left. When he sat because of foul trouble - Vrank was locked in. Goldwire was a real difference maker- he has played against outstanding competition in practice and knows how to be a major pest. I am hoping that AOC can get his mojo back. Duke can use his outside shooting. Right now that is the only glaring weakness of the team.

[Utley]

Thanks for calling this out - I agree. He played within himself and didn’t try to force things. If he can just do that and play Great D it’s a big add. Any shots that go in are just a bonus. I hope this was the result of coaching feedback and is the status quo going forward.

I would like to note that in addition to the crucial 3 pointer, Cam was 6-6 from the line, and in 37 minutes of play against a tough FS team he had ZERO turnovers. That was a huge improvement and he deserves a lot of credit for it.

[MChambers]

I feel like the same people that think Javin played badly against UNC also think Vrank was awesome against UNC. Both had solid plays. Both got out of position on defense that led to scores or bad fouls. But Vrank likely gets more credit because it was unexpected. Maybe our expectations of Javin are too high - I’ve always looked at him as an energy guy who can get rebounds, block shots, take charges and anything he scores is gravy.

People who think he can’t finish around the basket forget that he’s shooting over 70% from the field and had a stretch of 19 made FGs in a row. Even Zion has missed some bunnies this season.

But it seems like Zion got the offensive rebound on almost every one of his misses. 😉

[-jk]

But it seems like Zion got the offensive rebound on almost every one of his misses. 😉

The fastest second jump since, well, Bagley!

-jk

[devildeac]

Impressions from Charlotte, before reading the post-game thread:

St. Paddy's Day and Duke in the finals gives Charlotte a vibrant party atmosphere. Green and Duke Blue go together very well, thank you very much!

Charlotte has a great downtown, and the skyline is beautiful day and night.

The Spectrum Center is a very nice venue. The big board shows an amazing number of replays in a timely fashion.

The "Zion Effect" may give us the unaccustomed role of crowd favorite at times in the NCAAs, if the ACC Tournament is any indication. Pulling against this team is not easy. Even the Tar Heel fans could only half-heartedly (as a group, mind you) cheer against the Devils.

My Zion moment (duh) was the exquisite fast break pass to Tre Jones. My Javin 'frozen in time' moment happened several times after he secured a big rebound. But my favorite thing from this game was the defense. When these guys focus, they can really hound an opposing team.

Florida State admiration sentences: Leonard Hamilton has the best feel for calling timeouts at the right time of any coach I have seen. And what he says must be golden. Not golden enough, though, this go 'round.

Imagine the Smiley Image again, four is the limit! Go Duke!

Edit: Oh, and thanks to the DBRer who suggested the free employee parking lot!

Good summary, killer. Any beer reviews?

[UrinalCake]

People who think he can’t finish around the basket forget that he’s shooting over 70% from the field and had a stretch of 19 made FGs in a row. Even Zion has missed some bunnies this season.

Javin’s struggles around the rim have more to do with him fumbling the ball upon receiving it or having it stripped away when he tries to dribble, which wouldn’t be reflected in his shooting percentage. But I agree with you that I thought he played great in both the UNC-CHeat and the FSU game, regardless of the numbers. He was going up against some enormous front courts and had to avoid foul trouble and he stood in there and held his own, especially late in the games. His fouls don’t seem to come from guarding one on one in the post, they comes from bumping a cutter or reaching in 30 feet from the basket, which is correctable.

One of the interesting subplots of the season has been how he and Bolden have see-sawed between which is playing better. Hopefully we get them both playing at a high level for the closing stretch.

[killerleft]

Good summary, killer. Any beer reviews?

Sorry! I was with a beanpole younger person we both know. She was tired. We WERE going to go by Sugar Creek Brewing after the game. I really wanted to try a couple of their Belgian-inspired offerings, Biere de Garde and Belgian Dubbel. They had closed by the time we left the net-cutting ceremony. The basketball game was very, very nice, though.

[MarkD83]

Just some random thoughts about the tournament

1. At the end of the FSU game coach K gave Tre a big hug and then turned around and shook the hands of the coaches. Very classy. He also had a big smile on his face so clearly winning number 15 was important to him.

2. There was a scene where Coach K gave Mrs. K a big hug and kiss. As players passed by the two you could see them stop and say hello to Mrs. K who recognized each of them. Clearly Mrs. K is an integral part of the Duke family atmosphere.

3. The on court interviews with RJ and Zion were good, but I caught an off court interview with Cam. Very poised and articulate. Even though we give him grief on this board about his play you can tell from the interview he is very invested in this team and enjoying every minute of it. I did try to watch him rather than the ball when I replayed some of the games and he does a lot of things on defense that go unnoticed.

4. At the end of the FSU game blue and white confetti was sprayed over the court. I wonder if there has ever been a close game that comes down to the last shot and the wrong color confetti is sprayed on the court? Or the game goes to overtime and confetti has to be cleared from the court.

[-jk]

Just some random thoughts about the tournament

1. At the end of the FSU game coach K gave Tre a big hug and then turned around and shook the hands of the coaches. Very classy. He also had a big smile on his face so clearly winning number 15 was important to him.

2. There was a scene where Coach K gave Mrs. K a big hug and kiss. As players passed by the two you could see them stop and say hello to Mrs. K who recognized each of them. Clearly Mrs. K is an integral part of the Duke family atmosphere.

3. The on court interviews with RJ and Zion were good, but I caught an off court interview with Cam. Very poised and articulate. Even though we give him grief on this board about his play you can tell from the interview he is very invested in this team and enjoying every minute of it. I did try to watch him rather than the ball when I replayed some of the games and he does a lot of things on defense that go unnoticed.

4. At the end of the FSU game blue and white confetti was sprayed over the court. I wonder if there has ever been a close game that comes down to the last shot and the wrong color confetti is sprayed on the court? Or the game goes to overtime and confetti has to be cleared from the court.

Yeah, #4... It's gonna happen!

-jk

[lotusland]

All I know is that you need role players to step up in a championship run. One thing about Zion - beyond his incredible b-ball skill- is that he provides energy to his team. He plays so hard. Javin gave amazing effort in all the games knowing that he pretty much the only big left. When he sat because of foul trouble - Vrank was locked in. Goldwire was a real difference maker- he has played against outstanding competition in practice and knows how to be a major pest. I am hoping that AOC can get his mojo back. Duke can use his outside shooting. Right now that is the only glaring weakness of the team.

I think Goldwire is getting most of AOC’s minutes now. At least JGold is over his layup yips. Still passing up unguarded shots from deep tho. Alex needs to play stronger on defense all the time but, even so, he can’t provide the defensive pressure Goldwire is giving us. I think we have to live with either inconsistent or poor 3-pt shooting the rest of the way.

[hallcity]

Yeah, #4... It's gonna happen!

-jk

It has happened.
https://slate.com/culture/2018/05/ph...xers-loss.html

No danger of that last night.

[NSDukeFan]

It’s so nice to win a championship!