ACC POY and NPOY Discussion

[Matches]

The ACC awards have been a joke for quite some time. What's it been, 20 years since K won COY? I guess he's no Dave Leitao or Seth Greenberg?

[English]

I feel like being able to overcome injuries is important to how good of a coach you are.

But let's break down the coaches that got votes...

Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
How many years does UVA have to win the regular season to start getting as overhyped as Duke does? Bennett has now won ACC COY four times since he took over in 2009-2010. UVA was predicted to win the ACC. They only lost twice - to Coach K, who got zero votes.

Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
VT was up and down all year long. They were predicted to finish 5th. And they finished... 5th. Probably got a Duke boost by beating Duke at VT without Zion. But whatever.

Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
You said Roy did a great job this year, but I think he finished right where he was supposed to finish. Predicted 2nd. Finished 2nd. Zero adversity, unless you count Sterling Manley. Sure, Roy didn't have a top recruiting class, but he had a bunch of important senior players, including Cam Johnson, who they got from Pitt last year. And Coby White has been a great freshman for them.

Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Predicted 6th, finished 4th. A bit uneven at times this year, but should have gotten more votes than Buzz.

Chris Mack, Louisville, 7
I think Mack should have been higher, given the dumpster fire he was handed. Finished 6th, destroyed UNC at home and he managed to regroup his team after that soul crushing 23 point comeback by Duke.

This has happened in years that K won the regular season outright. Duke took the ACC regular season in 2010. Guess who won coach of the year? Gary Williams, who finished 2nd in the ACC.

I don't care for the VaTech program, but it's disingenuous to discount Duke's loses without Zion, but neglect to mention that VaTech was without its best player, Justin Robinson, for longer than Duke was without Zion. Just a thought.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I have tried to block out most of the game from Saturday night but I believe Bilas needs to re-up his bar membership and start an investigation as Kenny Williams is not on the all-defensive team. I'm glad at least some people saw through his flopping...

[FerryFor50]

I don't care for the VaTech program, but it's disingenuous to discount Duke's loses without Zion, but neglect to mention that VaTech was without its best player, Justin Robinson, for longer than Duke was without Zion. Just a thought.

I don't think it's disingenuous.

- VT was at home
- Zion > Justin Robinson

Sure, they beat Duke. But I don't look at it as one of those earth shattering wins. VT was ranked in the top 20 when they did it.

[English]

I don't think it's disingenuous.

- VT was at home
- Zion > Justin Robinson

Sure, they beat Duke. But I don't look at it as one of those earth shattering wins. VT was ranked in the top 20 when they did it.

Sorry if it was unclear...I mean, for Buzz' COY resume, he led his squad through a significant portion of the season (even more significant portion of the conference season) without his best player. You didn't mention that in your dismissive write-up for Buzz.

[FerryFor50]

Sorry if it was unclear...I mean, for Buzz' COY resume, he led his squad through a significant portion of the season (even more significant portion of the conference season) without his best player. You didn't mention that in your dismissive write-up for Buzz.

True. But that would still jibe with why I think K should have gotten some votes. Duke was without Zion for 4 games and without Tre Jones for 2-3 games.

[Wahoo2000]

I think a lot of these CoY awards come down to this - Who's getting the absolute MOST out of his guys night in and night out, while also living up to or beating expectations? UVA almost *never* has a wtf result (well.... in the regular season anyway), or a player who really disappoints compared to expectations. I feel like that's a huuuuuuge part Bennett winning these things over and over.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
VT was up and down all year long. They were predicted to finish 5th. And they finished... 5th. Probably got a Duke boost by beating Duke at VT without Zion. But whatever.

That's true, but Buzz lost his best player (Justin Robinson) and his sixth man/leading rebounder (Chris Clarke) after the poll came out, along with his most highly rated freshman (Landers Nolley). I don't think VT would have been picked fifth if those three were ruled out before the voting occurred.

I think Buzz would have been the easiest choice, and maybe the correct one. I really think his weirdo routine with them affected the voting.

[Ian]

Nike should be DPOY, they are the only ones who can shutdown Zion.

[Owen Meany]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Armstrong...68102931791875

[CDu]

I think a lot of these CoY awards come down to this - Who's getting the absolute MOST out of his guys night in and night out, while also living up to or beating expectations? UVA almost *never* has a wtf result (well... in the regular season anyway), or a player who really disappoints compared to expectations. I feel like that's a huuuuuuge part Bennett winning these things over and over.

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

Basically, I can't get too worked up about something as nebulous as a coach of the year vote.

[dukelifer]

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

Basically, I can't get too worked up about something as nebulous as a coach of the year vote.

Coach K likely lost some sort of bonus. He will suffer through I imagine.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I feel like being able to overcome injuries is important to how good of a coach you are.

But let's break down the coaches that got votes...

Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
How many years does UVA have to win the regular season to start getting as overhyped as Duke does? Bennett has now won ACC COY four times since he took over in 2009-2010. UVA was predicted to win the ACC. They only lost twice - to Coach K, who got zero votes.

Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
VT was up and down all year long. They were predicted to finish 5th. And they finished... 5th. Probably got a Duke boost by beating Duke at VT without Zion. But whatever.

Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
You said Roy did a great job this year, but I think he finished right where he was supposed to finish. Predicted 2nd. Finished 2nd. Zero adversity, unless you count Sterling Manley. Sure, Roy didn't have a top recruiting class, but he had a bunch of important senior players, including Cam Johnson, who they got from Pitt last year. And Coby White has been a great freshman for them.

Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Predicted 6th, finished 4th. A bit uneven at times this year, but should have gotten more votes than Buzz.

Chris Mack, Louisville, 7
I think Mack should have been higher, given the dumpster fire he was handed. Finished 6th, destroyed UNC at home and he managed to regroup his team after that soul crushing 23 point comeback by Duke.

This has happened in years that K won the regular season outright. Duke took the ACC regular season in 2010. Guess who won coach of the year? Gary Williams, who finished 2nd in the ACC.

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from. Duke was predicted to finish 1st. UVa 2nd. UNC 3rd. https://theacc.com/news/2018/10/25/m...edia-poll.aspx

I absolutely stand by what I said. Roy did a fantastic job coaching. Bennett is the most underrated coach in the ACC.

[flyingdutchdevil]

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

Basically, I can't get too worked up about something as nebulous as a coach of the year vote.

Same. The optics are not in Duke's favor on this one. When you have the POY, the second voted POY, and you finish 3rd, why would voters put you as the top coach?

[dukelifer]

I think a lot of these CoY awards come down to this - Who's getting the absolute MOST out of his guys night in and night out, while also living up to or beating expectations? UVA almost *never* has a wtf result (well... in the regular season anyway), or a player who really disappoints compared to expectations. I feel like that's a huuuuuuge part Bennett winning these things over and over.

4 times for Bennett, one less than K. Roy only has it twice- same as Seth. Dean Smith has it 8 times- could be hard to beat but Bennett is getting a lot of love of late.

[El_Diablo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Armstrong...68102931791875

What is the content/relevance of this bald link, for those of us without Twitter access?

[jv001]

4 times for Bennett, one less than K. Roy only has it twice- same as Seth. Dean Smith has it 8 times- could be hard to beat but Bennett is getting a lot of love of late.

I don't count any of Dean's accomplishments. He cheated. GoDuke!

[FerryFor50]

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from. Duke was predicted to finish 1st. UVa 2nd. UNC 3rd. https://theacc.com/news/2018/10/25/m...edia-poll.aspx

I absolutely stand by what I said. Roy did a fantastic job coaching. Bennett is the most underrated coach in the ACC.

How can you be the most underrated coach in the ACC when you've won coach of the year FOUR times in the past 8 years? What is your definition of underrated?

And what metric are you basing Roy doing a fantastic job this season on? I got my predictions from the Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-...31938rx7twiuv6

Even in your link, is finishing 2nd when you were projected 3rd really *that* impressive?

I'm not saying that K should have won COY this season; I just think it's ridiculous he's not even getting votes.

[Lar77]

ACC Rookie of the Year
Zion Williamson, Duke, 47
RJ Barrett, Duke, 21
Coby White, North Carolina, 2

Somebody voted for Coby White over Zion and RJ? Coby White is a great player and killed us for about 5 minutes (too soon), but this and giving Nasir Little points for 6th man is taking the light blue bias a little far.

[FerryFor50]

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

Basically, I can't get too worked up about something as nebulous as a coach of the year vote.

It's a pretty silly metric to base it on "talent you have to work with." It's a subjective metric. It should be results-based, along with factoring in adversity.

I'm not worked up about COY, nor do I think K should have won. I just notice that every year, he either deserves consideration and doesn't get it, or he doesn't even get a courtesy vote. He hasn't won in almost 20 years; it's very hard to believe he hasn't merited at least one win in that time.