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  1. #1

    Duke Alumna pleads guilty in college cheating scandal

    LA Times

    First time I have seen Duke mentioned. No idea if they were successful in getting their daughter in.

    I could not find previous posts on this topic, but feel free to move.

    SoCal

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    LA Times

    First time I have seen Duke mentioned. No idea if they were successful in getting their daughter in.

    I could not find previous posts on this topic, but feel free to move.

    SoCal
    Title of thread should (perhaps) be "Duke alumna pleads guilty in college cheating scandal," since, as you mentioned, it's unclear if her daughter matriculated.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    I'm tired of hearing that there is no indication the kids knew what was going on. I know we are a self-deluded (and happily deluded by others) nation, but people basically know how smart they are. And whether they can play field hockey or row a boat.

    I believe 800 is still a perfect score on the SAT. The "Duke" girl knows she didn't come close to answering all the questions correctly, yet she gets the results and sees an 800? Give me a break.

    Edit: Now, at 18, you're still heavily under the sway of your parents. Just say you did what you were told. Don't lie and show you're even stupider than your tests show.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    OK let's get real. They were still fixing test results in September 2018. She could well have been admitted to enter with the Class of 2023 this August, either through early admission or regular admission. Ain't happening. I dunno if Duke has known about these charges for a while, but today's story and court action will make University Admissions aware and scotch any idea of the young woman coming to Duke.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    I'm tired of hearing that there is no indication the kids knew what was going on. I know we are a self-deluded (and happily deluded by others) nation, but people basically know how smart they are.
    I donít know, thereís evidence (and not just my own curmudgeonly observations) that a chunk of people overestimate their smarts. Itís called the Dunning-Kruger Effect or something like that.

    Who am I kidding, almost no one I know believes they are precisely as smart as I know they are. Particularly when weíre in disagreement!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    I don’t know, there’s evidence (and not just my own curmudgeonly observations) that a chunk of people overestimate their smarts. It’s called the Dunning-Kruger Effect or something like that.

    Who am I kidding, almost no one I know believes they are precisely as smart as I know they are. Particularly when we’re in disagreement!
    Seems to be that the less you know the more you think you know until you get into the middle where it's a balance. Then there's this quote (Einstein? Aristotle?)

    "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know."
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    I donít know, thereís evidence (and not just my own curmudgeonly observations) that a chunk of people overestimate their smarts. Itís called the Dunning-Kruger Effect or something like that.

    Who am I kidding, almost no one I know believes they are precisely as smart as I know they are. Particularly when weíre in disagreement!
    I get what you're saying, and agree with it. I guess I'm saying that when there's an "objective" measurement, i.e. test, we've got a pretty good idea how well we know the subject matter.

    When the teacher gives you an A and you know you crapped out on the test, there has to be some acknowledgement that there's something rotten in the state of Denmark. I mean, she's not enrolled at uNC where this appears to be commonplace, or at least no cause for alarm.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Derm
    My favorite quote in this arena is from Bertrand Russell:

    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    I donít know, thereís evidence (and not just my own curmudgeonly observations) that a chunk of people overestimate their smarts. Itís called the Dunning-Kruger Effect or something like that.

    Who am I kidding, almost no one I know believes they are precisely as smart as I know they are. Particularly when weíre in disagreement!
    Just as many (most?) people overestimate their driving ability. I saw one study where something like 80%+ considered themselves "above-average" drivers.

    Of course, this could also be a reflection of the inability of many to comprehend the fundamentals of mathematics.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    ... Then there's this quote (Einstein? Aristotle?)

    "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know."
    I'm pretty sure that was Mark Twain, or Yogi Berra, or Bum Phillips ...

    Denver article: https://www.denverpost.com/2019/05/2...abbott-guilty/

  11. #11
    Arguably, this is the university version of the cheating scandal. Suspect it's much more widespread than the UO and Temple examples provided. I'd be shocked if a significant number of universities didn't inflate their data. When it comes to ratings, rankings, admissions, resumes, recognition, earnings and profit, or any other measure of success and accomplishment, it's probably a safe bet that a not insignificant number of people and institutions lie, inflate, obfuscate, and/or cheat.

    And, yes, when balls, frisbees, or drones land on my lawn, I keep them!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Just as many (most?) people overestimate their driving ability. I saw one study where something like 80%+ considered themselves "above-average" drivers.

    Of course, this could also be a reflection of the inability of many to comprehend the fundamentals of mathematics.
    100% is mental and the other half is physical.

  13. #13
    Do these parents actually believe they're helping their children by getting them in a school above their child's ability level?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Do these parents actually believe they're helping their children by getting them in a school above their child's ability level?
    LOL, well, in many of the reported cases, the parents paid a LOT of money to get their kids into colleges they would otherwise not get in. So, the parents, rightly or wrongly, must have believed it was worth the "investment".

    Furthermore, as I'm sure many people on this board realize, at many of these highly rated schools (including Duke), getting in is the hardest part. Once you're in, if you're reasonably intelligent and have some degree of motivation, you should be able to do fine and get a degree. And I do think that there is value, in the long run (disputed by some, I know), in having a degree from a "prestigious" school on your resume.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    ^ from what I've seen, some parents could easily justify the cost because of the prestige factor they covet. They get to brag about what great school their kid got into. No small thing. (Probably omitting the bribe aspect)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    ^ from what I've seen, some parents could easily justify the cost because of the prestige factor they covet. They get to brag about what great school their kid got into...
    ... or, they get to brag their kid beat them up...

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/24/us/ad...ult/index.html

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    And I do think that there is value, in the long run (disputed by some, I know), in having a degree from a "prestigious" school on your resume.
    IMO there is value, but it diminishes rapidly with the # of years since you finished. Very soon, it's what you've done that matters, not where you were educated.

    Also agree, it's getting in that is the hard part, not staying in once there.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Do these parents actually believe they're helping their children by getting them in a school above their child's ability level?
    It happens all the time, and yes, it can often help the kids out (take, e.g., Jared Kushner as a well-known example).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    IMO there is value, but it diminishes rapidly with the # of years since you finished. Very soon, it's what you've done that matters, not where you were educated.

    Also agree, it's getting in that is the hard part, not staying in once there.
    I agree with this to a certain extent but a Top 10 - 20 university on your resume is pretty darn important in certain fields in terms of providing the exposure necessary to even have an opportunity to hitch your wagon to a professional star. Let's say your goal is to work in high finance and become an income one percent-er. You know one of the best paths to accomplish this is to work on Wall Street at one of the major investment banks --- those banks recruit at a clip of something like 15 - 20% out of the top 5 schools, near 30% out of the top 10 schools, and 50% out of the top 20. Millions of kids graduate from the ~ 2,000 universities in the USA each year but a disproportionate amount of future masters of the universe (as an example) will be recruited from much less <1% of the total student and university base.

    I don't disagree that the further you are removed from college, the more your work needs to speak for itself but boy does a prestigious school help put you in the position to even have the opportunity to say a few words in the first place (in certain professions).

  20. #20
    With all due respect, I think some of these posts exaggerate the benefits. I'm starting to think one of you might even claim, if my Dad got me in Yale with a 1,200 SAT and I coasted through with a bunch of C's, then I could one day end up with a Harvard MBA and become POTUS. That's just crazy talk.

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