Light Rail

[orrnot]

I hope this isn't too political a query.

Does the current impasse doom the light rail project altogether? If so, how much damage will this do to our community relations?

I have a lot of concern. Right now it seems that everyone is against Duke on this one, including many within the University. I'm leaning that way too, though I'm very open to being educated on a topic I don't know enough about.

[tteettimes]

I also am in the Dark as to ANY details or design data or ANY legal elements involved.
Duke has been one of the best things ever happened to the City of Durham since tobacco.
The project must be very complex and Duke University is not comfortable enough to commit the resources it has at the expense of its own interests and the public good as it pertains to healthcare and safety.
I hope with all my heart that the leaders of Durham do not give the perception that its Duke’s fault.
I have lived in Durham my entire life and love living here.
How fortunate to have a great “ neighbor” like Duke University.

[JNort]

I hope this isn't too political a query.

Does the current impasse doom the light rail project altogether? If so, how much damage will this do to our community relations?

I have a lot of concern. Right now it seems that everyone is against Duke on this one, including many within the University. I'm leaning that way too, though I'm very open to being educated on a topic I don't know enough about.

I doubt in the long run it dooms it but short term it seems to. It's perhaps not a black eye on Duke but maybe a bruise in the arm (It's late give me a pass) in terms of relations around the area. I haven't followed closely on why it's being rejected after it was reported to have been supported but to me it is disappointing, I'm almost always in favor of improving infrastructure/travel and this would seemingly be great for getting around and bring more in than it costs over time.

[PackMan97]

It sounded like the main issue is the proximity to Duke Hospitals and the concerns that the vibrations from construction may impact hospital operations, in particular the operating rooms.

[Indoor66]

Does anyone have some links to tell the story of Durham Light Rail? I live about 900 miles away and have not ever heard of the Project, much less any Duke involvement. That said, I would be interested on some info regarding the plan - routes, timetables, costs, etc.

[aimo]

I, personally, am relieved that Duke has said no. I hope they stick to their guns and don't cave.

My first thought when they mentioned the light rail years ago was that it would be a great way to get to the airport, as the plan was to hook up with Wake County's light rail, which was being planned separately. Then, when the whole plan was revealed, no airport! I'm not sure what's going on with Wake County's plan now, but I have since been strongly against the Durham Orange one for several reasons. ONE - the original plan was to go through Meadowmont, which specifically included rail stops in its original layout. It was supposed to be a selling point, a future light rail at your convenience. Later, when the rail planners started to make their move, the residents of Meadowmont starting protesting, so the planners moved it south where it now affects Downing Creek, which was NOT planned and whose residents were NOT told, Hey! a light rail is going to be built here! Be aware of this before you buy!
TWO - It will not be used as much as the planners are saying it will. Most people will only use it occasionally. The argument for lower-income people using it is ridiculous. It will offer nothing the bus system cannot offer. they will be more limited as to where to catch it, they'll still have to use the bus to get to a stop. And if they are going to offer free or reduced rail passes, then they will be relying on PAYING people to support it, and they will only use it sporadically. Not enough to support the others. They just need to use that money to improve the bus system and the roads.
THREE - I only recently learned the actual plan around Duke. The plan is to run the rail DOWN THE MIDDLE OF ERWIN RD. I work there and cannot imagine the nightmare it would be to have years of construction (they are saying at least nine years)going on while it is being built. THAT is Duke's main concern. The traffic issues - the emergency room is there, ambulances would be impacted. People being able to get to their appointments - NOT people who would use the rail later, but those who come from a distance every day. Also, both the construction and the train itself causing vibrations/disruption/damage to sensitive medical and research equipment in the hospitals (Duke and VA) and all the research buildings along Erwin.
Duke has a very good argument to not support the light rail, they have a lot at stake.

my $0.2

Oh! And the NC Railroad system does not support this project, either.

[bundabergdevil]

Does anyone have some links to tell the story of Durham Light Rail? I live about 900 miles away and have not ever heard of the Project, much less any Duke involvement. That said, I would be interested on some info regarding the plan - routes, timetables, costs, etc.

Here’s a video overview of the proposal: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM







...😀

[Indoor66]

Here’s a video overview of the proposal: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM

...😀

Good one and it sums up most of these low density community plans. Pie in the sky financial albatross. Here in South Florida we have Tri-Rail that runs from Miami to Palm Beach several times per hour for all "25" regular users.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I love mass transit. I live in NY and take the subway every day, and the bus occasionally. I don't own a car. How a politician plans to deal with mass transit issues is one of the most important issues when I decide who to vote for in local elections (NYC mass transit has a lot of major problems).

That being said, this is a dumb idea for Durham. There is not enough density in the triangle to merit a light rail. And though the area is growing, I highly doubt there ever will be enough density. Not to get too PPB but though the point of infrastructure like this is not necessarily to make money but rather to serve the public good, these systems tend to be huge money losers. But at least buses do not have the big capital outlays as well as the disruptions that this would cause.

Kudos to Duke for standing up to this. These systems tend to most benefit lower income people so the optics of Duke rejecting it are not great but it is a smart decision.

[howardlander]

I, personally, am relieved that Duke has said no. I hope they stick to their guns and don't cave.

My first thought when they mentioned the light rail years ago was that it would be a great way to get to the airport, as the plan was to hook up with Wake County's light rail, which was being planned separately. Then, when the whole plan was revealed, no airport! I'm not sure what's going on with Wake County's plan now, but I have since been strongly against the Durham Orange one for several reasons. ONE - the original plan was to go through Meadowmont, which specifically included rail stops in its original layout. It was supposed to be a selling point, a future light rail at your convenience. Later, when the rail planners started to make their move, the residents of Meadowmont starting protesting, so the planners moved it south where it now affects Downing Creek, which was NOT planned and whose residents were NOT told, Hey! a light rail is going to be built here! Be aware of this before you buy!
TWO - It will not be used as much as the planners are saying it will. Most people will only use it occasionally. The argument for lower-income people using it is ridiculous. It will offer nothing the bus system cannot offer. they will be more limited as to where to catch it, they'll still have to use the bus to get to a stop. And if they are going to offer free or reduced rail passes, then they will be relying on PAYING people to support it, and they will only use it sporadically. Not enough to support the others. They just need to use that money to improve the bus system and the roads.
THREE - I only recently learned the actual plan around Duke. The plan is to run the rail DOWN THE MIDDLE OF ERWIN RD. I work there and cannot imagine the nightmare it would be to have years of construction (they are saying at least nine years)going on while it is being built. THAT is Duke's main concern. The traffic issues - the emergency room is there, ambulances would be impacted. People being able to get to their appointments - NOT people who would use the rail later, but those who come from a distance every day. Also, both the construction and the train itself causing vibrations/disruption/damage to sensitive medical and research equipment in the hospitals (Duke and VA) and all the research buildings along Erwin.
Duke has a very good argument to not support the light rail, they have a lot at stake.

my $0.2

Oh! And the NC Railroad system does not support this project, either.

I'm with you on all of this. I can't for the life of me see what makes this crippled (no RDU, no RTP, no 15-501) system worth 3 billion dollars plus the inevitable overruns. Could it help some lower income people? Maybe, but not substantially more than an enhanced bus system we could build for a whole lot less money. I think I read that the community wouldn't finish paying for this system until 2062. Anyone here want to wager that much money on what transport is likely to look like in 2032, much less 2062! If, as seems possible, Duke has killed this particular plan, then maybe we can move on to thinking about less costly, more useful ideas.

[BLPOG]

Have you see the results on other light rails?

Best to avoid altogether.

[wavedukefan70s]

Do you guys have a rapid bus transit lane ?
They were looking at both options here in Charleston sc aswell.im not sold on either.depending on which study you read.both do not produce desired results most of the time.not to mention the cost overruns.

[94duke]

FAQ on Duke's concerns with the light rail...

https://today.duke.edu/2019/02/faq-lightrail

[Acymetric]

FAQ on Duke's concerns with the light rail...

https://today.duke.edu/2019/02/faq-lightrail

I'm a little surprised it doesn't explicitly mention problems with traffic/vehicle access to the hospital during construction as a bullet point. I know that was a concern in the past...maybe that part actually got addressed in a reasonable way or they don't consider it as important as the other issues.

[budwom]

Like many others here, I'm all for swift mass transit when the numbers work, but when they don't, it becomes a financial disaster. As others have stated, three billion bucks is a lot of money...a small fraction of that
could fund a heavily augmented bus system.

[Indoor66]

a small fraction of that
could fund a heavily augmented bus system.

But not nearly as sexy.

[wavedukefan70s]

Like many others here, I'm all for swift mass transit when the numbers work, but when they don't, it becomes a financial disaster. As others have stated, three billion bucks is a lot of money...a small fraction of that
could fund a heavily augmented bus system.

Just curious as to your 20 mile transit time in your area at rush hour ours is 45 minutes to a hour during peak times.
Double that if it rains.

[wavedukefan70s]

Like many others here, I'm all for swift mass transit when the numbers work, but when they don't, it becomes a financial disaster. As others have stated, three billion bucks is a lot of money...a small fraction of that
could fund a heavily augmented bus system.

We have a bus system but it's not extensive enough to be mass transit.
It's a disaster not to mention the corruption.
Here's article on it.i absolutely hope your system looked at this as what not to do.
https://m.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/carta-isnt-an-attractive-option-for-most-car-owners-andmdash-but-it-could-be/Content?oid=5230405

[budwom]

Just curious as to your 20 mile transit time in your area at rush hour ours is 45 minutes to a hour during peak times.
Double that if it rains.

Rush hour? We don't have one.

I definitely don't dispute the need for more public transportation in Durham. But I'm skeptical that a light rail system is the best solution given the price tag of nearly three billion bucks.

Light rail by definition has a limited number of stops...people still have to get from their homes to the station, and at the other end they have to get to their jobs...will the light rail system
get everyone within easy walking distance of their jobs? I imagine someone has the numbers, but it's hard to believe Durham has the population density to make a three billion dollar investment
work...

[wavedukefan70s]

Rush hour? We don't have one.

I definitely don't dispute the need for more public transportation in Durham. But I'm skeptical that a light rail system is the best solution given the price tag of nearly three billion bucks.

Light rail by definition has a limited number of stops...people still have to get from their homes to the station, and at the other end they have to get to their jobs...will the light rail system
get everyone within easy walking distance of their jobs? I imagine someone has the numbers, but it's hard to believe Durham has the population density to make a three billion dollar investment
work...

Ah ok .we have a 6to 9 am gridlock and 4 to 7 pm.im interested to see how you guys handle public transportation. Our main issues are barrier islands which a artery type transportation system is almost a must. But is a doomed design after you get to the mainland .