MBB: Duke 75, Syracuse 65 Post-Game Thread

[sagegrouse]

Still a lot of the season to go. Grayson Allen hardly played until the Wisconsin game.

Except that Grayson has 27 against Wake on March 4, 2015. "Grayson's winning" chant from the Crazies.

[uh_no]

I thought he should have dunked it as well.

I can see both responses...and thought it was super borderline...while I was surprised he didn't take the points, I can't REALLY fault him for trying to burn more clock...and he simply didn't do it as effectively as could have been done. HE hit the shots, though, so it was all for the best.

[fathippo]

HBCK, I wonder if Coach K has been thinking that Jack will regain his stroke because he sees him make them in practice and now he's not even making them in practice. This was as good a time as any for Joey to play. Even though it was against a tough zone team and in a place that seems to be hard to shoot the 3 ball. But he did get his feet wet and did ok. Now let's see he does going forward. GoDuke!

I don't know about practice, but during pre-game and halftime shootaround in Cameron Jack seemingly doesn't miss. That is why is has been so baffling to see him miss 28 of his last 29 3's. I think the coaching staff has been very patience with him but decided a change had to be made. Hopefully a break from game action will do him some good.

[Furniture]

Tre Jones v. Tyus Battle. Battle got 16 points tonight vs 32 in the first game. 12 made shots in the first game, 4 tonight. Lost by 4 in the first game without Jones. Won by 10 tonight with him.

[ncexnyc]

Also have to wonder if the starting 5 when Zion comes back is with him at the 5 and AOC at the 2.

I know we've seen it in spurts this year but perhaps it becomes our new go to lineup.

An interesting question, but how much stock do you put in AOC's game against Syracuse? This is after all his second quality outing against the very same opponent. What happens when we face a tough man to man defense? Does he get the same open looks? Does he play confidently enough with the ball where he isn't afraid to take the ball to the basket in an attempt to make a play?

[simplyluvin]

Alex O’Connell - zone killer. If you told me without Zion that Cam would shoot 18% and have 5 points, I would have thought this was game I gotta to be a painful evening. But AOC made up for it, we cleaned up the boards, and hit our free throws. Would love to see Alex shoot with that level I’d confidence against non-zone defenses.

Like many here, I’m not sure about burning Joey’s redshirt, but let’s see how good he is. Coach sees that we need better shooting going into March. That may be the underlying concern.

[AtlDuke72]

Coach K really should have polled all the coaches on DBR before making the move.

[Reddevil]

Does this necessarily "burn" the redshirt? I thought one could redshirt based on a % of games or time played. Amile played four games I think and got a redshirt year. Does that only apply to injuries?

[simplyluvin]

Does this necessarily "burn" the redshirt? I thought one could redshirt based on a % of games or time played. Amile played four games I think and got a redshirt year. Does that only apply to injuries?

Redshirt is burned. Amile received a medical hardship waiver because he played less than 20% of the seasons games.

[sagegrouse]

Does this necessarily "burn" the redshirt? I thought one could redshirt based on a % of games or time played. Amile played four games I think and got a redshirt year. Does that only apply to injuries?

Amile got a medical redshirt. Joey Baker has burned a year of eligibility.

[hustleplays]

I never really understood the Baker redshirt concept, as I don’t see him staying 5 years. I just don’t understand why K waited until now.

I agree that Bolden coming in for Javin seemed to solidify the win. He is just much better at holding onto rebounds and finishing his dunks. I wonder if we could have had 6-8 more points in first half if he had played more. But who amI to question the GOaT.

Scheyer said during halftime interview that they were trying to find someone who could shoot...so I think that explains some of the personnel usage. Thankfully AOC came through!

Regarding Baker, we know that he is supposed to be a really good perimeter shooter. This year's team has been dismal shooting treys, and consistently poor outside shooting makes a national championship that much harder.

I suppose that Coach K expected, early in the season, that our 3 pt shooting would be better than it has been, in that we have AOD, Reddish, White and even Tre J, who, one might expect, given his athleticism and ability to hit shorter shots, would gradually improve from beyond the perimeter. The marginal utility of bringing in Baker to improve our perimeter shooting, at the expense of burning a year of eligibility, when we had so many prospectively talented shooters, seemed negative.

Plus, we have had so many very talented starters and bench players. Baker's replacing any starter or top sub would be a tough trade-off.

That said, as the season has progressed, I have questioned why Baker was not brought in earlier, given that he would not likely stay for five years anyway, and given that it looks like we are majorly lacking in only one major championship winning dimension: hitting from downtown.

Finally, I don't think that Baker's number of minutes tonight is predictive of his burn going forward. If he can make treys at a high level, we will need him and he will play...though his defense needs to be at least adequate. Jury out on that.

[Saratoga2]

Got back late but watched the recorded game before knowing the result.

RJ had a tremendous game and Syr was really unable to stop him and resorted to help in the second half.

I wouldn't comment on Joey Baker/Jack White as I remember RJ was sick with a stomach virus just recently. There are many possibilities for why coach K played the people he did and I will await a more fact based explanation.

Alex has been an enigma this year. He has size, quickness, length, hops and nice form on his shot but mostly didn't threaten the defense, but passed the ball off quickly. Tonight he was more ready to shoot and perhaps had been told to get off the stick and put the ball up. BB IQ is knowing when to make a play. It came together for him tonight and between RJ and Alex we got 50 points.

Tre made a determined defensive effort tonight and was very effective. He also picked his spots to score in double figures. Very good effort by Tre.

Cam looks solid on defense with his length and quickness but he was careless with the ball on offense and shot poorly. We simply need him to provide more offense. It is easy to forget that he is only an inexperienced freshment and will have his ups and downs. Fouling a 3 point shooter late in the game is typical of a guy who is not focussed.Note that coach K played him the full 40 minutes.

I did not have the same positive feeling about Javin and Marques. Both did play hard but Javin doesn't have the strength to battle for the ball inside and he foulsall to often. He cannot catch the ball and finish around the rim with regularity. Clearly he works very hard and he is what we have for mobile front court presence without Zion. Marques also worked hard and did a nice job rebounding late, but he also stepped out of bounds to turn the ball over and went over the back with clock time being more important than getting the ball. Didn't seem to be aware of the game situation. Both Javin and Marques need to know and play the situation but appear to be caught up in the fury of the moment.

[kako]

5 thoughts:

1. Barrett just gets buckets. And buckets. And buckets. He ability to play in traffic is amazing. That left-handed scoop shot after he spun around, high off the glass, was the kind of shot that makes him special. MOTM.

2. I've been hoping AOC could find confidence and shoot the ball. BANG, today was the day. Hopefully he can continue this, and not just against the Orangemen. With Reddish's shot going south, AOC filled in perfectly.

3. You just can't go for easy lobs against the Cuse. They are so long-armed. Straight line lobs just don't work well. I was screaming at the after the first few - no more friggin' lobs unless Jones is throwing them.

4. Bolden played so well after sitting so long in the game. 8 boards in 10 minutes. Again, Barrett was the man, and AOC was needed, but I think Duke also doesn't win without Bolden's boards down the stretch.

5. I assume K's plan is to work Baker into the rotation, and perhaps his minutes were going to be limited regardless today. I'm fine with burning the red shirt, even if he plays a limited role down the stretch. What this team lacks is reliable outside shooting. Sometimes Barrett can provide it, sometimes Reddish, sometimes (now) AOC. If Baker can also step into such a role, I'll take it. He may take White's spot. I feel for White, but bottom line is that he is not producing well these days. And it's just not his shot. Right now, there are better options than him to put on the court.

9F

[richardjackson199]

I take it back and apologize. it was richardjackson. Very sorry to falsely accuse YOU. I feel like a democrat.

However, it DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THERE WAS NO INDICATION HE WOULD PLAY. HE WAS IN UNIFORM. Uniform = available

I have never insisted or insinuated that Joey Baker would not play this season. Quite the opposite. On several occasions I have stated that given the change in circumstances we should ask the question if maybe Joey should burn the redshirt and play this season. I have argued that if he could help this team win a championship I think maybe it's worth it to play him now. He is known as a great 3 point shooter and this team needs that. We've had recent big injuries. Bench players who previously were shooting 3's well now are not. When I asked that recently I was asked politely by a couple posters to not bring it up again. Just wanted to set the record straight on what I said and what i never said.

The fact that Baker played tells me that the staff did what I was hoping. They kept an open mind given the change in circumstances of our team. They realized that this team has a great chance to win it all, and that anything we can do to go all-in and give this team the best possible chance to win is worth it. I hope Baker has a great rest of the season and was thrilled to see him in the game.

[dukelion]

An interesting question, but how much stock do you put in AOC's game against Syracuse? This is after all his second quality outing against the very same opponent. What happens when we face a tough man to man defense? Does he get the same open looks? Does he play confidently enough with the ball where he isn't afraid to take the ball to the basket in an attempt to make a play?

All good points but playing AOC seems worth the risk at this point considering the alternatives.

[uh_no]

All good points but playing AOC seems worth the risk at this point considering the alternatives.

If it means one person has to think about staying on the arc instead of collapsing on a driving zion or RJ, it's worth it IMO.

[DukieInBrasil]

Listen, we're not winning this thing shooting under 30% from three. All we need is to get the number up to the respectable low to mid 30's and we're back to being the clear cut favorite.

There's no way to really defend this statement. We've been a 30% 3FG shooting team all year, and it sure looks like we are championship quality. We don't necessarily need to shoot 30% in every game to win every game. We shot 31% tonight, and would have won if we had missed a couple more 3s, which would have been somewhere between 20-25%. Now, no team shoots the same % every night, so the variability around 30% is really the key. I would agree with you if you were to say that if we shoot 10% from 3 (which we have done, and worse, this year) during an NCAAT game that we would have a very high chance of an early exit. I just think blanket statements like the bolded one are not worth entertaining.

Great win! Loved what I saw from RJ and AOC but definitely a team win. Question for the board: what do you think of players passing up wide open layups at the end of the game and instead burning a few more seconds off the clock? Like what happened with AOC at the end when he was cherry picking and got a great pass so a wide open path to the hoop but he didn't take it and instead waited for cuse to catch up and foul him. At least, AOC is a great FT shooter but I personally would take the guaranteed 2 points rather than take 5 more seconds off the clock and risk FTs. Is that just me? There's a fine line though because I've seen guys take contested shots when they should have burned clock but he was literally wide open with nobody in front of him in this case.

I think dunking it woulda been better, guaranteed 2 points. The biggest factor would be to consider what the bonus foul situation was at the time. If it was still in the 1n1, then absolutely go ahead and dunk it. If it was double bonus, then i think the risk is maybe worth it. Still, i'd advise the dunk.

Alex has been an enigma this year. He has size, quickness, length, hops and nice form on his shot but mostly didn't threaten the defense, but passed the ball off quickly. Tonight he was more ready to shoot and perhaps had been told to get off the stick and put the ball up. BB IQ is knowing when to make a play. It came together for him tonight and between RJ and Alex we got 50 points.

Tre made a determined defensive effort tonight and was very effective. He also picked his spots to score in double figures. Very good effort by Tre.

I did not have the same positive feeling about Javin and Marques. Both did play hard but Javin doesn't have the strength to battle for the ball inside and he foulsall to often. He cannot catch the ball and finish around the rim with regularity. Clearly he works very hard and he is what we have for mobile front court presence without Zion. Marques also worked hard and did a nice job rebounding late, but he also stepped out of bounds to turn the ball over and went over the back with clock time being more important than getting the ball. Didn't seem to be aware of the game situation. Both Javin and Marques need to know and play the situation but appear to be caught up in the fury of the moment.

First, Tre shot terribly, 2-12 FGs, so i'm not sure which spots he was picking. He made all of his FTs though, so that was good. He did defend very well.
Our two-headed C provided 15 rebs and 9 pts and 3 blocks. I'd say the effort was there. Javin does have bad hands, the worst for a Duke player since Casey Sanders. He also has a really bad habit of bringing the ball down to dribble when he's got the athleticism to go strait to the rim. He hit 3 of his 4 FTs tonight, so that was nice.

[uh_no]

First, Tre shot terribly, 2-12 FGs, so i'm not sure which spots he was picking. He made all of his FTs though, so that was good. He did defend very well.
Our two-headed C provided 15 rebs and 9 pts and 3 blocks. I'd say the effort was there. Javin does have bad hands, the worst for a Duke player since Casey Sanders. He also has a really bad habit of bringing the ball down to dribble when he's got the athleticism to go strait to the rim. He hit 3 of his 4 FTs tonight, so that was nice.

I'd throw generic "underclassman plumlee" into the mix.

[devildeac]

Hard fought win. D got much better the last 10. Still, I think Cuse helped us out missing some good opportunities and free throws because we sure made some mistakes down the stretch. Bolden was huge. AOC wow. RJ kept us in it until he got some help. I am befuddled with Reddish.. I keep waiting for some consistency from him.

Our esteemed poster who kept hammering for Baker to play..I think that poster should be the Baker No Longer a Redshirt thread starter because the Baker decision will surely be talked about. I think Coach K has been seeing something in practice from him & he knows the outside shooting in suspect. He has a team that has a chance to win it all and possibly a few minutes in a crucial game from Baker could be the difference. You never know. I certainly don't think it was based on the game tonight.

Tough road win. Been a long week. Might be time for a celebratory beer..

Which one?

https://forums.dukebasketballreport...?3840-Ymm-Beer

[KandG]

Question for the board: what do you think of players passing up wide open layups at the end of the game and instead burning a few more seconds off the clock? Like what happened with AOC at the end when he was cherry picking and got a great pass so a wide open path to the hoop but he didn't take it and instead waited for cuse to catch up and foul him. At least, AOC is a great FT shooter but I personally would take the guaranteed 2 points rather than take 5 more seconds off the clock and risk FTs. Is that just me? There's a fine line though because I've seen guys take contested shots when they should have burned clock but he was literally wide open with nobody in front of him in this case.

My instinct corresponds to yours: Alex had the layup/dunk and should have just taken it, rather than face the potential of missing one or two FTs for the sake of wasting a few seconds.

To add some context though: a few minutes before that, Alex was wide open after Duke beat the press and took a quick 3 with 4:19 on the clock (and a lot of time on the shot clock) and Duke up 65-58. Bolden rebounded Alex's miss but then turned it over. Syracuse ended up missing a shot on the next possession and then Duke called a timeout. Duke missed the next possession as well and Cuse got the lead down to 65-60 before we managed to close it out.

Just speculating here, but I assume Alex was told during the timeout that as well as he was shooting all game, it was too early to take that shot with over four minutes left in the game, and he probably should have held the ball up and milked more clock. That might have contributed to his conservative approach in the dying seconds, even though an open layup with an 8 point lead and 53 seconds left would have been fine.