The end of OAD (in a few years)

[DavidBenAkiva]

My thoughts on this have long been that the NBA should lower the age of the draft to 18, so this is good.

What would be really great is if, by some miracle, the NCAA, the NBA, and the NBPA get together and figure out a system that is better for the players. Make is so that players have access to agents throughout the process, can retain college eligibility if they do not get a guaranteed contract, etc.

But because we are talking about the NCAA, this won't happen.

[devildeac]

Coach K is retiring in 2023, right after his grandson Michael Savarino graduates and LeBron James, Jr. goes #1 in the NBA Draft

Link?

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[BigZ]

And it's also worth noting that Zion was no higher than 7th pick coming out of HS...now he's number one pick. Now he's even more famous because of Duke. He'll sign for more money and make a ton more endorsements thanks to a year at Duke.

Only if that was the first year of allowing HS kids in draft bc several of OADa from last year would not of gone to college Bagley probably is the only not to since he graduated a year early

[Bluedog]

My thoughts on this have long been that the NBA should lower the age of the draft to 18, so this is good.

What would be really great is if, by some miracle, the NCAA, the NBA, and the NBPA get together and figure out a system that is better for the players. Make is so that players have access to agents throughout the process, can retain college eligibility if they do not get a guaranteed contract, etc.

But because we are talking about the NCAA, this won't happen.

The NCAA already allows players to have agents. They've actually made some sweeping changes in the past couple years that I feel everybody glosses over:
https://www.al.com/sports/2018/08/nc..._basketba.html

And their "benefits" as players while undergraduates has increased "SIGNIFICANTLY" (Coach K's word) from a decade ago based on NCAA rule changes (like schools now giving players stipends in addition to full tuition, room, board, and more).

[arnie]

The NCAA already allows players to have agents. They've actually made some sweeping changes in the past couple years that I feel everybody glosses over:
https://www.al.com/sports/2018/08/nc..._basketba.html

And their "benefits" as players while undergraduates has increased "SIGNIFICANTLY" (Coach K's word) from a decade ago based on NCAA rule changes (like schools now giving players stipends in addition to full tuition, room, board, and more).

Yes lots of fans aren’t paying attention and I also like the insurance benefit Zion got from Duke. Hopefully once the NBA gives 18 year olds a choice; most of the rhetoric goes away.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Only if that was the first year of allowing HS kids in draft bc several of OADa from last year would not of gone to college Bagley probably is the only not to since he graduated a year early

I don't agree with that at all. Not even sure what it means...

[UrinalCake]

The NCAA already allows players to have agents. They've actually made some sweeping changes in the past couple years that I feel everybody glosses over:

I remember last fall the NBA announced they would offer $100k G-league contracts to a select few elite high school recruits. Has anybody heard a peep about this since then? If it has been offered and nobody has accepted, then we know the value of going to college is at least that much at a minimum.

[Steven43]

And it's also worth noting that Zion was no higher than 7th pick coming out of HS...now he's number one pick. Now he's even more famous because of Duke. He'll sign for more money and make a ton more endorsements thanks to a year at Duke.

Hmm, I hadn’t thought of it that way. But you’re right. Zion has benefitted from his connection to Duke and Duke has benefited from their connection to Zion. A truly symbiotic relationship.

[NSDukeFan]

The NCAA already allows players to have agents. They've actually made some sweeping changes in the past couple years that I feel everybody glosses over:
https://www.al.com/sports/2018/08/nc..._basketba.html

And their "benefits" as players while undergraduates has increased "SIGNIFICANTLY" (Coach K's word) from a decade ago based on NCAA rule changes (like schools now giving players stipends in addition to full tuition, room, board, and more).

So you’re saying the players can have cream cheese with their bagels now?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I remember last fall the NBA announced they would offer $100k G-league contracts to a select few elite high school recruits. Has anybody heard a peep about this since then? If it has been offered and nobody has accepted, then we know the value of going to college is at least that much at a minimum.

And some place like Duke, where tuition is in the range of 75K, plus having K, all the exposure, etc...it is FAR GREATER than 100K and playing to empty gyms. I pretty much predicted this would be the case over the summer when there were some very heated threads about related topics. In fact, I didn't pretty much predict, I absolutely predicted.

Hmm, I hadn’t thought of it that way. But you’re right. Zion has benefitted from his connection to Duke and Duke has benefited from their connection to Zion. A truly symbiotic relationship.

Clearly most sports journalists have not bothered to think about it that way either. And I would suggest that this is the case for most athletes/colleges. Duke and Zion are a match in the extreme that illustrates this.And so is Murray State and JA Morant. Lightly recruited out of high school, he is now projected the number 3 pick in the draft. So not only has JA benefitted from Murray State, but from the entire universe of college hoops that magnifies his considerable talents.

For athletes who are not very good, but good enough to maintain their scholarships, I would suggest the athlete gets the better end of the deal.

So you’re saying the players can have cream cheese with their bagels now?

Ah, a little more than that. Unless K was lying or exaggerating when he talked about how much things had improved.

[Bluedog]

So you’re saying the players can have cream cheese with their bagels now?

Hahaha, yes... at Duke, the basketball team has a private chef. I never understood that story because at Duke, any athlete can get anything they want on campus or from restaurant that delivers for food points, and bball players get basically unlimited dollars to spend. But most of their meals are from the chef or on the road anyways so not sure how they'd spend much anyways...

[UrinalCake]

Hahaha, yes... at Duke, the basketball team has a private chef. I never understood that story because at Duke, any athlete can get anything they want on campus or from restaurant that delivers for food points, and bball players get basically unlimited dollars to spend. But most of their meals are from the chef or on the road anyways so not sure how they'd spend much anyways...

There used to be an arcane NCAA rule that limited the number of meals the school could provide, but they could provide unlimited snacks. However, if a snack had more than a certain amount of protein, it was considered a meal and was therefore prohibited. Hence the school could provide bagels but not the cream cheese to go on the bagel because that would constitute a meal. The could provide certain brands of granola bars, but not others because the protein content was above a certain percentage. They would actually take the time to investigate and say XXX granola bar is fine, but YYY granola bar is not. Somehow they had the manpower to monitor all of this, lest some criminal athlete consume the wrong type of snack bar and gain an unfair advantage, yet decades of academic fraud are totally fine.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Hahaha, yes... at Duke, the basketball team has a private chef. I never understood that story because at Duke, any athlete can get anything they want on campus or from restaurant that delivers for food points, and bball players get basically unlimited dollars to spend. But most of their meals are from the chef or on the road anyways so not sure how they'd spend much anyways...

Private chefs, unlimited food and medical, I think some stipends and career injury insurance...common sense improvements in the last 5 years...that should've happened 30 years ago. In other words, the days where big time athletes were begging pizza money are GONE...as they should be. Many discuss this topic as if that's not the case.

Bottom line: the NCAA is run by bureaucrats. Those types (and I'm sure there might be some on DBR) tend to be rule focused and sometimes miss the bigger picture. The UNCheat non ruling is an example...they hid behind rules as excuse not to make a tough decision...when in the big picture, what the Cheats did struck at the very heart of the NCAA's stated mission.

[DavidBenAkiva]

The NCAA already allows players to have agents. They've actually made some sweeping changes in the past couple years that I feel everybody glosses over:
https://www.al.com/sports/2018/08/nc..._basketba.html

And their "benefits" as players while undergraduates has increased "SIGNIFICANTLY" (Coach K's word) from a decade ago based on NCAA rule changes (like schools now giving players stipends in addition to full tuition, room, board, and more).

Thank you for that! I had forgotten about that rule change. A positive move from the NCAA.

[devilsadvocate85]

I didn't bother to find the last post I made on this topic, but I don't understand all the agita over this rule change. Once this change takes place there will be a small handful of prospects who don't go to college each year. The top college programs will adjust their recruiting slightly based on the "sure to go straight to the NBA list" and will still recruit the best players they possibly can. The prospects who opt not to go straight to the NBA, and as college freshman show themselves worthy, or exceed expectations, will still go to the NBA after one year in college. The only difference will be that the NBA age limit didn't force them to go to college.

I feel like there is a gross assumption being made that the top X number of players in each high school class will go straight to the NBA. I don't believe this will happen. Those prospects are going to be evaluated against all the college players (seniors and those declaring for the draft early) as well as all the foreign players. There is an argument to be made to play a year in college. It would be an interesting exercise to revisit the past 10 drafts (an arbitrary sample, I know) and try to figure out where the top high school players would have gone, presuming that some number of the players in that draft would actually have been drafted the prior year. The trick is, you can't use their first year college performance as part of the analysis. You have to go purely on where they stood as the graduated from high school. Look at how much movement there is in the rankings during a players high school career through their freshman year of college. The NBA values the extra chances they get to evaluate prospects against better competition.

As an example, current projections are showing that Zion Williamson has earned himself somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 million in additional guaranteed NBA contract money by his performance at Duke this year versus where he stood in the rankings last year coming out of high school (assuming he's the #1 pick as opposed to somewhere in the bottom of the top 10 last year - admittedly something that can't be proven). Top 5 out of high school does not necessarily translate to Top 5 in the NBA draft. He's also boosted his endorsement value immensely during his time at Duke. I'm sure someone can come up with a value difference, but as an NBA rookie in 2018-19, Zion would have nowhere near the exposure he has had being on national TV virtually every game he has played. He also wouldn't be the lead story on SportsCenter and all the other sports news shows like he is now every time Duke plays. I also cringe as I find myself paraphrasing Jaeln Rose, but he said something very important yesterday. I don't recall the exact words, but it was something to the effect that Zion is receiving better coaching now than he will with whoever drafts him.

I realize Zion is an extreme case, but his story will be looked at by future prospects when they decide which route to take, including the injury risk.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

As an example, current projections are showing that Zion Williamson has earned himself somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 million in additional guaranteed NBA contract money by his performance at Duke this year versus where he stood in the rankings last year coming out of high school (assuming he's the #1 pick as opposed to somewhere in the bottom of the top 10 last year - admittedly something that can't be proven). Top 5 out of high school does not necessarily translate to Top 5 in the NBA draft. He's also boosted his endorsement value immensely during his time at Duke. I'm sure someone can come up with a value difference, but as an NBA rookie in 2018-19, Zion would have nowhere near the exposure he has had being on national TV virtually every game he has played. He also wouldn't be the lead story on SportsCenter and all the other sports news shows like he is now every time Duke plays. I also cringe as I find myself paraphrasing Jaeln Rose, but he said something very important yesterday. I don't recall the exact words, but it was something to the effect that Zion is receiving better coaching now than he will with whoever drafts him.

I realize Zion is an extreme case, but his story will be looked at by future prospects when they decide which route to take, including the injury risk.

Straight out of HS, Zion would be drafted well behind RJ and probably behind Nassir Little, given that Little dominated the HS all star games that Zion and RJ were in. Out of HS, Zion was this amazing instagram sensation with his dunks, but he was "only a dunker" who played weak HS competition. He was well known, but mostly by teens and hard core basketball fans from social media.

Then Zion combines with Duke, a program that has been at or near the top of media exposure for almost 30 years, and right out of the shoot, on the big stage with Kentucky, Zion is introduced to more fans than maybe 40 games playing for a lottery NBA team would have done. And on that stage, he shows he's far more than just a dunker. Since then Zion has been must see TV nationally.

At Clemson? This doesn't happen. In the NBA? This doesn't happen. Zion was going to be rich and successful by whatever path, but the path that led him through Duke for a season has put him way ahead of any other path he could have taken. Before this year's NBA playoffs start, and before Duke is out for the summer, Zion will already be a rich dude. And a lot of that wealth will be endorsements, which are mega enhanced by a year at Duke, which has exposed the world to the amazing young man and freakish athlete Zion is.

I think the NBA should do away with the OAD rule...i also think very very few 18 year olds should take that option. Zion is way ahead because he couldn't take that route.

[jjasper0729]

I think the NBA should do away with the OAD rule...i also think very very few 18 year olds should take that option. Zion is way ahead because he couldn't take that route.

In conjunction with doing away with the 19 year of age requirement. It would "help" the college game if they also did away with the rookie pay scale. This is one of the bigger things that made everyone jump sooner rather than later. The owners knew how much the slot would pay so they didn't have to "invest" in rookies the way they had to in the past. Think about 1994 when Glenn Robinson and Grant Hill were drafted. Robinson signed for a boat load coming out as a junior (I forget the exact number) which not long after that had the owners looking to negotiate the rookie pay scale so they wouldn't have to worry about losing so much money if the pick was a bust.

If they get rid of the rookie pay scale, then there's bound to be less high schoolers jumping straight to the NBA (like they did to get the clock started before the second contract) because the owners, in theory, would be hesitant to have to drop a ton of cash on an 18 year old that hadn't proven himself against tougher competition.

DeCourcy has written a ton about this... it's not so much the 19 year old minimum age as it is this pay scale that happened a decade before the age limit.

[75Crazie]

Once again, there is a lot of discussion regarding the role of colleges in the revenue athletic sports: football and now basketball. In each, there is currently a path to professional status that bypasses the 4-year degree requirements that, to my knowledge, all other college programs enforce. The only consistent defense I notice for this process is that these athletes gain significant exposure and training that is superior to whatever other avenues (such as the G league) provide. But everybody espousing this benefit seems to be of the belief that college admittance is a divine right for anybody that has NBA or NFL aspirations. Isn't it about time that we seriously explore alternative paths to fame and fortune for football and basketball players and return college football and basketball to true academic-based athletics, and to require college athletes to compete on a more level playing field in the classroom?

[devilsadvocate85]

Once again, there is a lot of discussion regarding the role of colleges in the revenue athletic sports: football and now basketball. In each, there is currently a path to professional status that bypasses the 4-year degree requirements that, to my knowledge, all other college programs enforce. The only consistent defense I notice for this process is that these athletes gain significant exposure and training that is superior to whatever other avenues (such as the G league) provide. But everybody espousing this benefit seems to be of the belief that college admittance is a divine right for anybody that has NBA or NFL aspirations. Isn't it about time that we seriously explore alternative paths to fame and fortune for football and basketball players and return college football and basketball to true academic-based athletics, and to require college athletes to compete on a more level playing field in the classroom?

What would be the reason behind this? Is your goal to significantly downgrade all the other athletic programs that are subsidized by football and basketball?

[75Crazie]

What would be the reason behind this? Is your goal to significantly downgrade all the other athletic programs that are subsidized by football and basketball?

Is that really your defense of college revenue sports that have become almost totally divorced from the academic purpose of universities, that they subsidize other college sports?