Corey Maggette rape allegations

[roywhite]

I am sorry if the guidelines seem to prohibit any conversation. Obviously, we did not reopen the thread out of a desire to see no posts in it. If you have something to say, do not be afraid to say it.

I will add that if folks want, they can PM any mod with what they plan to post and we can clear it in advance. Lots of folks do that in the political threads on the off-topic board.

I'll go with this:
I have a high degree of confidence in Mike Krzyzewski, Kevin White, and other Duke administrators to do an honest and fair investigation and take appropriate actions, should any be necessary.

[1991 duke law]

Hopefully nothing that I say in this post contravenes the rules that have been set up.

Clearly, due process has to have paramountcy. And the world has to avoid branding Corey Magette as a rapist simply because an allegation was made. He deserves that and our judicial system mandates it. It is our social system that is the problem as it often forgets the cornerstone of our criminal justice system – the presumption of innocence.

In terms of Duke University, what will be critical is what facts come out and what processes were followed. Obviously, if anyone was silly enough to discourage a student advancing a claim of sexual harassment that will be problematic. If anyone in the athletic department was aware of this claim and similarly took steps to suppress it, that would be a problematic. I am consciously avoiding the issue as to whether the claim was legitimate or not as that has no bearing on the first two points. Certainly my hope is that the answer will be that no one in the administration of the school did anything to discourage a claim being put forward.

I hope that Cory gets the benefit of a presumption of innocence and due process. I also hope that justice is served so that no one who committs a crime goes unpunished. And I hope that the Duke administration handle this in an appropriate manner – protecting students as we would expect of them.

[bundabergdevil]

Duke will not be the only entity investigating the allegation. Fox Sports West, Maggette’s current employer, pulled him from the Clippers broadcast last night and let it be known they will be looking into the matter.

[Matches]

In terms of Duke University, what will be critical is what facts come out and what processes were followed. Obviously, if anyone was silly enough to discourage a student advancing a claim of sexual harassment that will be problematic. If anyone in the athletic department was aware of this claim and similarly took steps to suppress it, that would be a problematic.

Duke says the first it knew of these allegations was in the last few days. If that's true, there would have been no process to be followed in 1999.

[brlftz]

Hopefully nothing that I say in this post contravenes the rules that have been set up.

Clearly, due process has to have paramountcy. And the world has to avoid branding Corey Magette as a rapist simply because an allegation was made. He deserves that and our judicial system mandates it. It is our social system that is the problem as it often forgets the cornerstone of our criminal justice system – the presumption of innocence.

In terms of Duke University, what will be critical is what facts come out and what processes were followed. Obviously, if anyone was silly enough to discourage a student advancing a claim of sexual harassment that will be problematic. If anyone in the athletic department was aware of this claim and similarly took steps to suppress it, that would be a problematic. I am consciously avoiding the issue as to whether the claim was legitimate or not as that has no bearing on the first two points. Certainly my hope is that the answer will be that no one in the administration of the school did anything to discourage a claim being put forward.

I hope that Cory gets the benefit of a presumption of innocence and due process. I also hope that justice is served so that no one who committs a crime goes unpunished. And I hope that the Duke administration handle this in an appropriate manner – protecting students as we would expect of them.

One clarification - this is an allegation of rape, not sexual harassment.

I hope we do see whether policy and/or best practices were followed.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Duke says the first it knew of these allegations was in the last few days. If that's true, there would have been no process to be followed in 1999.

Yes...if this even happened, and/or it it was reported,(reported doesn't necessarily mean it happened) it would be better for Duke if the person who took the report has moved along in their career.

[brlftz]

Duke says the first it knew of these allegations was in the last few days. If that's true, there would have been no process to be followed in 1999.

But the allegation includes an assertion that the accuser met with an unnamed Dean, who poo pooed it and convinced her not to take it any further. If true, that would certainly be something that one expects would have triggered a different sort of response if policy was being followed.

[niveklaen]

As an attorney who has both prosecuted and defended sexual assault cases, let me add my voice in favor of due process. One thing that I worry about in cases like this is that criminal allegations deserve, nay demand, to be judged in a court of law. Employers/schools should not be passing judgement on these allegations - courts should. No action* taken by the University can provide justice. I am certain that Coach K and the Dean will try to make the very best decisions that they can, but they should not be substituting their best intentioned guess for the due process that a court can provide any more than we would want them performing surgery rather than sending an injured student to the hospital.

*the one caveat to this is timely reporting - University employees who became aware of the allegation should have acted by reporting it to law enforcement - though I don't know if they are mandatory reporters under NC law, in Missouri educators are mandatory reporters.

[Duke79UNLV77]

I'll go with this:
I have a high degree of confidence in Mike Krzyzewski, Kevin White, and other Duke administrators to do an honest and fair investigation and take appropriate actions, should any be necessary.

I would expect K and the AD not to have any involvement in an investigation by design. If they knew or had constructive knowledge of any accusation, they should report it immediately and then allow an independent investigation to proceed. They are not trained as investigators, and there could be a perception of a conflict or undue influence. That role is consistent with how K said he responded to the Sulaimon situation, where ultimately no accuser participated to allow much of an investigation.

Here, the accuser alleges that she went to a dean, so K and the AD may not have been involved at all, assuming there was a report. I certainly would hope a dean would not respond as alleged. I would assume she could identify the dean, and I would assume there would be some documentation of any report, regardless of the outcome.

[CDu]

Here, the accuser alleges that she went to a dean, so K and the AD may not have been involved at all, assuming there was a report. I certainly would hope a dean would not respond as alleged. I would assume she could identify the dean, and I would assume there would be some documentation of any report, regardless of the outcome.

Yep, this is the key. If the woman did in fact report it to a Dean (and I'm not passing judgement one way or the other here), it would then be on that Dean to take the next steps.

It is quite possible that the Dean heard the case and ended the story there (for whatever reason). If so, Coach K would have never heard about it.

There are lots of avenues for this story that lead to Coach K not hearing news of this.

I will say that if the woman did report this to a Dean and the Dean blew it off, that's an awful look for that Dean. But we just don't know nearly enough to say much more other than "it is very feasible that Coach K heard about this for the first time a few days ago."

[MCFinARL]

Yep, this is the key. If the woman did in fact report it to a Dean (and I'm not passing judgement one way or the other here), it would then be on that Dean to take the next steps.

It is quite possible that the Dean heard the case and ended the story there (for whatever reason). If so, Coach K would have never heard about it.

There are lots of avenues for this story that lead to Coach K not hearing news of this.

I will say that if the woman did report this to a Dean and the Dean blew it off, that's an awful look for that Dean. But we just don't know nearly enough to say much more other than "it is very feasible that Coach K heard about this for the first time a few days ago."

Yes, and this as much as anything else--whether a dean simply blew off a report of rape from a student--is what the university most needs to investigate--because as noted above, the university is not in the best position to make a determination about whether a rape actually occurred, but they are in the best position to make a determination about whether the actions of their representatives were appropriate and whether current university policies ensure that rape allegations would be handled appropriately now.

[JasonEvans]

In the span of one hour we had 3 posts that needed to be deleted with infractions handed out. Folks, some of ya'll are not doing a good job of being smart about this thread.

• Do not slam Corey Maggette, doing so is clear speculation on your part. It is worth noting that Corey has been named in a media report only, with not a word from the accuser containing his name.
  
• Do not debate or question the validity of her claims. Don't even make a veiled reference to doubting her. We will not be making any judgements about her or Corey at this time. Understood?

[1991 duke law]

The assertion that the dean was told is the second most important part of the story. Is it true? And if true, the next issues are - (x) what the dean was alleged to have said and (y) what the dean claims to have been told and what he/she claims to have said to the student. These are the processes I was referencing.

I would be absolutely shocked (and disappointed) should any dean counsel a student to do nothing when she claims to have been raped - and I would be similarly shocked if the dean would not report the issue to someone else in the administration. He/she would be pretty imprudent not to - even if the student asked that the matter be kept confidential.

[Indoor66]

The assertion that the dean was told is the second most important part of the story. Is it true? And if true, the next issues are - (x) what the dean was alleged to have said and (y) what the dean claims to have been told and what he/she claims to have said to the student. These are the processes I was referencing.

I would be absolutely shocked (and disappointed) should any dean counsel a student to do nothing when she claims to have been raped - and I would be similarly shocked if the dean would not report the issue to someone else in the administration. He/she would be pretty imprudent not to - even if the student asked that the matter be kept confidential.

Would it not be appropriate for a Dean, after receiving such information of rape, properly advise the reporting party to call the police?

[rthomas]

All college campuses in the U.S. have a Title IX office. If a student, male or female, comes to a faculty or an administrator and tells them of anything like sexual harassment, sexual assault, stalking, bullying, etc, the faculty or administrator is mandated by law to report this directly and (relatively) immediately to the Title IX office, which then has to follow up with the student, as well as the initiator (if that is the correct term) of the harassment.

I would be shocked if the Title IX laws were not followed to the letter of the law.

[1991 duke law]

Would it not be appropriate for a Dean, after receiving such information of rape, properly advise the reporting party to call the police?

I do not know what the internal policies are at Duke for a situation like this. Assuming that there was a policy, the dean should follow it. I would have thought that most schools would have policies for circumstances of this nature. And I cannot imagine that a policy would not include discussing reporting the matter to the police, among other things.

[1991 duke law]

All college campuses in the U.S. have a Title IX office. If a student, male or female, comes to a faculty or an administrator and tells them of anything like sexual harassment, sexual assault, stalking, bullying, etc, the faculty or administrator is mandated by law to report this directly and (relatively) immediately to the Title IX office, which then has to follow up with the student, as well as the initiator (if that is the correct term) of the harassment.

I would be shocked if the Title IX laws were not followed to the letter of the law.

One would hope that you are 100% correct.

[AustinDevil]

One would hope that you are 100% correct.

Google some of the worse aspects of the Baylor debacle if you want to see what happens when a school does not do so. Ditto on the hope.

[Tooold]

I suspect that the standard approach of many universities to allegations such as this may have been different in 1998 than it would be today. If so, it might not have been unusual at any university for someone in authority to advise a student making allegations about the difficulty of proving the allegations, the old “he said, she said” argument. Not saying this happened, just that awareness of campus sexual assault issues has increased greatly over the last ten years, and administrations have become much more consistent in terms of the policies they follow.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Add me to the roster of people hoping that either: 1) this is a massive misunderstanding that doesn't in any way intersect with Duke basketball, or 2) if it did intersect with Duke basketball, all proper protocol was followed.

Anything outside of this will be very disillusioning. I shall wait until everything is sorted and acknowledge that it will likely not be sorted to a satisfying conclusion.