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Thread: J Gold

  1. #1

    J Gold

    BlueDevil005 already made this comment on the main site, but I also found the post today about j Gold's poor 3-point shooting to be mean-spirited and unneeded. To spend an entire article trying to prove to us how lousy a shooter he is contributes nothing to Duke fandom, or the universe in general. He works hard, defends well, and, I'm sure, works his tail off in practice. He's part of the team. Duke fans have always valued the bench warmers and walk-ons. J gold deserves better.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by clinresga View Post
    BlueDevil005 already made this comment on the main site, but I also found the post today about j Gold's poor 3-point shooting to be mean-spirited and unneeded. To spend an entire article trying to prove to us how lousy a shooter he is contributes nothing to Duke fandom, or the universe in general. He works hard, defends well, and, I'm sure, works his tail off in practice. He's part of the team. Duke fans have always valued the bench warmers and walk-ons. J gold deserves better.
    I suppose the only thing notable here is that he is approaching a record which is only possible from a bench guy because he has been used a lot this season- example, 13 minutes against Pitt and he is shooting more. JGold provides a spark on D and can bring the ball up. His shooting is an issue and has taken a step back but he can easily change that. Jack White has made some significant improvement (the last few games notwithstanding) from last year. JGold wants to be a better basketball player and shooting is his weakness. It is a fixable issue with time and if it improves- he could contribute much more. As for being mean spirited- no so sure. Basketball at this level comes with being critiqued. I had no idea he was approaching a record and no idea that Nick Horvath (the best summer practice player in Duke history) who once hit a critical 3 as a Freshman to win a game bringing Duke back from a 12 point deficit at home- was on top.

  3. #3
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    Good thing that you aren't (hopefully aren't) an artist. Constructive criticism is a constant in my field, just as it is in most careers. Pointing out one's flaws is only "mean spirited" if it is written in such a tone. (Like "that art show was great, and would have been better if they had put CB&B's gawd awful paintings in the janitor closet.")
    I don't get that tone at all in Barry Jacob's writing, he's merely pointing out a deficiency in JW's game. Hell, look at the list at the end of it, he's got some great company. And, being he's on the list twice, Jacobs is pointing out that his production is worse this year than last. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure the coaches have pointed it out as well, and are seeking reasons why. Sean Dockery is third worst on that list, but I'm betting nobody here is complaining that he never quit trying.

    My only fault with the article is that it is titled "Barry".
    My next non self portrait painting, I'm gonna title "Chris".
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Good thing that you aren't (hopefully aren't) an artist. Constructive criticism is a constant in my field, just as it is in most careers. Pointing out one's flaws is only "mean spirited" if it is written in such a tone. (Like "that art show was great, and would have been better if they had put CB&B's gawd awful paintings in the janitor closet.")
    I don't get that tone at all in Barry Jacob's writing, he's merely pointing out a deficiency in JW's game. Hell, look at the list at the end of it, he's got some great company. And, being he's on the list twice, Jacobs is pointing out that his production is worse this year than last. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure the coaches have pointed it out as well, and are seeking reasons why. Sean Dockery is third worst on that list, but I'm betting nobody here is complaining that he never quit trying.
    Constructive criticism is done in private, one on one sessions, not in an article on the subject put into the public realm. This article is destructive and mean, IMO.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by clinresga View Post
    BlueDevil005 already made this comment on the main site, but I also found the post today about j Gold's poor 3-point shooting to be mean-spirited and unneeded. To spend an entire article trying to prove to us how lousy a shooter he is contributes nothing to Duke fandom, or the universe in general. He works hard, defends well, and, I'm sure, works his tail off in practice. He's part of the team. Duke fans have always valued the bench warmers and walk-ons. J gold deserves better.
    Agreed in principle, but over half the individuals on that list played in the NBA. It is a strange distinction I suppose, but the company on that list isn't bad at all.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Constructive criticism is done in private, one on one sessions, not in an article on the subject put into the public realm. This article is destructive and mean, IMO.
    I agree. This was uncalled for.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Good thing that you aren't (hopefully aren't) an artist. Constructive criticism is a constant in my field, just as it is in most careers. Pointing out one's flaws is only "mean spirited" if it is written in such a tone. (Like "that art show was great, and would have been better if they had put CB&B's gawd awful paintings in the janitor closet.")
    I don't get that tone at all in Barry Jacob's writing, he's merely pointing out a deficiency in JW's game. Hell, look at the list at the end of it, he's got some great company. And, being he's on the list twice, Jacobs is pointing out that his production is worse this year than last. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure the coaches have pointed it out as well, and are seeking reasons why. Sean Dockery is third worst on that list, but I'm betting nobody here is complaining that he never quit trying.

    My only fault with the article is that it is titled "Barry".
    My next non self portrait painting, I'm gonna title "Chris".
    I think the point is to ask whether it is really necessary to write a front page article about the shooting woes of a lightly used reserve player. I'm not super bothered by the article, but I don't think it was necessary or a particularly interesting read.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Good thing that you aren't (hopefully aren't) an artist. Constructive criticism is a constant in my field, just as it is in most careers. Pointing out one's flaws is only "mean spirited" if it is written in such a tone. (Like "that art show was great, and would have been better if they had put CB&B's gawd awful paintings in the janitor closet.")
    I don't get that tone at all in Barry Jacob's writing, he's merely pointing out a deficiency in JW's game. Hell, look at the list at the end of it, he's got some great company. And, being he's on the list twice, Jacobs is pointing out that his production is worse this year than last. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure the coaches have pointed it out as well, and are seeking reasons why. Sean Dockery is third worst on that list, but I'm betting nobody here is complaining that he never quit trying.

    My only fault with the article is that it is titled "Barry".
    My next non self portrait painting, I'm gonna title "Chris".
    I'm probably overly in the "sunshine and light" category--I've really had to learn at work how to be the "bad cop" when it's appropriate. Still, I'm not convinced that this article counts as "constructive criticism." In artistic terms, this is the equivalent of "You're a really terrible composer. One of the worst. Period." Not much construction going on there. And unlikely that J Gold was unaware of his shooting issues before this article. But yeah, I suspect he's not overly bothered by opinions over here!

  9. #9
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    I'm a big fan of Goldwire. I really root for him to keep stepping up. I think having a senior PG that's a part of the rotation could be incredibly valuable, especially in this age of 1AD. That being said, he has a ways to go. But I didn't find the article mean-spirited, it's simply just fact to me. And interesting. I would have never guess GHill would be on this list. What the hell was Parks doing out at the 3-point line? And Battier, 3-pt hero of Game 7 in the 2013 NBA Finals, went 4-24 in '98? Anyway, Barry Jacobs has always written articles showing all kinds of interesting stats (miss his Fan's Guides!). This post was just another of them. I like objectivity/criticism mixed in, as opposed to just rah rah circle jerk articles. We all should keep rooting for Goldwire. Just think how Battier improved to his senior year...

    9F
    I will never talk about That Game. GTHC.

  10. #10
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    It's a Marathon

    I have to ask... What was the point of the article? Site filler is my only guess.

    Busting Goldwire's chops like that is a bit harsh. Goldwire wasn't one of these blue chips prospects we're all used to the program landing. He came in as a 3 star prospect who was about to sign with Eastern Kentucky. I think it's pretty obvious that K and staff looked at Goldwire as a project and would probably give more meaningful minutes in years 3 & 4 (recent example: Jack White).

    Burying the kid in his sophomore season when he's the 8th man in Duke's rotation is a little harsh. Goldwire's time Duke is a marathon and not a sprint.

  11. #11
    To be honest, I did not read the article as busting JG's chops. It made an observation as to bad shooting and then put it into a broader context. It wasn't an editorial calling for him to stop shooting or otherwise calling his contributions to the team into question. Personally, I really enjoy the statistical reviews that are posted to DBR - regardless of whether they address steals, free throw shooting (good or bad), or even bad three point shooting.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    I'm a big fan of Goldwire. I really root for him to keep stepping up. I think having a senior PG that's a part of the rotation could be incredibly valuable, especially in this age of 1AD. That being said, he has a ways to go. But I didn't find the article mean-spirited, it's simply just fact to me. And interesting. I would have never guess GHill would be on this list. What the hell was Parks doing out at the 3-point line? And Battier, 3-pt hero of Game 7 in the 2013 NBA Finals, went 4-24 in '98? Anyway, Barry Jacobs has always written articles showing all kinds of interesting status (miss his Fan's Guides!). This post was just another of them. I like objectivity/criticism mixed in, as opposed to just rah rah circle jerk articles. We all should keep rooting for Goldwire. Just think how Battier improved to his senior year...

    9F
    I agree with this. The article wasn't mean-spirited but factual. He is a terrible 3pt shooter. There isn't a way to sugarcoat that (okay, he has "more 3pt room for improvement than any other player". How about that?).
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    I'm a big fan of Goldwire. I really root for him to keep stepping up. I think having a senior PG that's a part of the rotation could be incredibly valuable, especially in this age of 1AD. That being said, he has a ways to go. But I didn't find the article mean-spirited, it's simply just fact to me. And interesting. I would have never guess GHill would be on this list. What the hell was Parks doing out at the 3-point line? And Battier, 3-pt hero of Game 7 in the 2013 NBA Finals, went 4-24 in '98? Anyway, Barry Jacobs has always written articles showing all kinds of interesting status (miss his Fan's Guides!). This post was just another of them. I like objectivity/criticism mixed in, as opposed to just rah rah circle jerk articles. We all should keep rooting for Goldwire. Just think how Battier improved to his senior year...

    9F
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I agree with this. The article wasn't mean-spirited but factual. He is a terrible 3pt shooter. There isn't a way to sugarcoat that (okay, he has "more 3pt room for improvement than any other player". How about that?).
    I can't speak for the OP or anyone else who has registered an objection, but I don't find the article mean-spirited at all, just unnecessary.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I agree with this. The article wasn't mean-spirited but factual. He is a terrible 3pt shooter. There isn't a way to sugarcoat that (okay, he has "more 3pt room for improvement than any other player". How about that?).
    Ok, but he's a 3 star recruit who shouldn't even be expected to contribute as much as he is at this point in this Duke career so what's the point in bringing up this particular flaw and writing a whole article about it?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    I can't speak for the OP or anyone else who has registered an objection, but I don't find the article mean-spirited at all, just unnecessary.
    Well, as the OP, I don't think it was intentionally mean spirited, but it just felt a little like picking on the smallest kid in class. If we want to discuss negative stats, wouldn't Tre's 62% free throw percentage, or Cam's adjusted 4.3 TO per 40 minutes, or Javin's 7.1 fouls/40 minutes be more relevant to Duke's success?

    And anyway, I'd rather focus on the positives. Like JRob's 44% 3 pt shooting

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeTrinity11 View Post
    Ok, but he's a 3 star recruit who shouldn't even be expected to contribute as much as he is at this point in this Duke career so what's the point in bringing up this particular flaw and writing a whole article about it?
    Of the top 20 three-point shooters this year by percentage, only 5 are from Big 5 teams. I suspect not too many would be four or five star recruits...though most are upperclassmen. So he may get there.

    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    I'm a big fan of Goldwire. I really root for him to keep stepping up. I think having a senior PG that's a part of the rotation could be incredibly valuable, especially in this age of 1AD. That being said, he has a ways to go. But I didn't find the article mean-spirited, it's simply just fact to me. And interesting. I would have never guess GHill would be on this list. What the hell was Parks doing out at the 3-point line? And Battier, 3-pt hero of Game 7 in the 2013 NBA Finals, went 4-24 in '98? Anyway, Barry Jacobs has always written articles showing all kinds of interesting status (miss his Fan's Guides!). This post was just another of them. I like objectivity/criticism mixed in, as opposed to just rah rah circle jerk articles. We all should keep rooting for Goldwire. Just think how Battier improved to his senior year...9F
    That’s good because you are unlikely to find too much of that genre here.

  17. #17
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    Not even worried about Goldwire's shooting. He was recruited b/c of his defense mostly. He has been mostly serviceable. He's overthinking his shot. This can be seen when he hesitates b/c he so damn wide open.

    But he could be the key to other things - like this:

    Duke coaches will be in attendance when Brandon Boston Jr. tries to lead his Norcross High School squad to another win in its 7A region tournament (tomorrow night).

    Guess who else has a little clout at Norcross High School...

  18. #18
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    Negative sporks are warranted for the previous 17 posts in this thread for failing to provide a link. Here you go:

    Barry on Bad Duke Three Point Shooting: Jordan Goldwire Is Near the Top of the List, by Barry Jacobs
    https://www.dukebasketballreport.com...ordan-goldwire

    Quote Originally Posted by clinresga View Post
    BlueDevil005 already made this comment on the main site, but I also found the post today about j Gold's poor 3-point shooting to be mean-spirited and unneeded. To spend an entire article trying to prove to us how lousy a shooter he is contributes nothing to Duke fandom, or the universe in general. He works hard, defends well, and, I'm sure, works his tail off in practice. He's part of the team. Duke fans have always valued the bench warmers and walk-ons. J gold deserves better.
    Who is BlueDevil005? There is no comment on the main site. Maybe it got deleted later. Next time give your thread a title that refers to the front page article in some meaningful way, something more revealing than "J Gold". (Presumably, you started the thread because you had strong feelings replying to something. Don't make us hunt for it.) And include the link -- even seemingly short-lived DBR threads have a habit of lingering, long after the article leaves the DBR main page. In a few days no one visiting the thread will have any idea what anyone here is talking about.

    The article itself is meh. A journalist searches for a unique angle on the three-point shooting story, finds it, and writes an article that follows through on that angle, dives deep into stats, and conveys a complete thought. Unfortunately, that complete thought was probably not worth pursuing. Why would anyone think Jordan Goldwire's three-point performance was indicative of the team at large?

    When it comes to missing threes Goldwire has been leading the way for Duke. Prior to making the first of two last-minute attempts against St. John’s, the Georgian (U.S. version) had missed every 3-pointer he’s taken, 15 in the first 20 games, and made but two of five free throws.
    Woof. Setting aside the tacky "Georgian" thing, Goldwire is leading the way with those 0.75 three pointers he attempts every game.

    The stat table, while pretty, is similarly useless. What are we supposed to learn about some of the most infrequent 3-point shooters in recent Duke history? These are reserves who did not play many minutes, or regular rotation players who were not in the habit of taking outside shots. Had he expanded the parameters to the lowest percentages rather than fewest makes, he might have stumbled across a high-volume shooter that (numerically) had no business being a high-volume shooter. But this table shows me nothing.

    Part of bad journalism is lacking a second person -- copy editor, publisher, even a friend -- who is willing to tell the writer to try again.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Negative sporks are warranted for the previous 17 posts in this thread for failing to provide a link. Here you go:

    Barry on Bad Duke Three Point Shooting: Jordan Goldwire Is Near the Top of the List, by Barry Jacobs
    https://www.dukebasketballreport.com...ordan-goldwire



    Who is BlueDevil005? There is no comment on the main site. Maybe it got deleted later. Next time give your thread a title that refers to the front page article in some meaningful way, something more revealing than "J Gold". (Presumably, you started the thread because you had strong feelings replying to something. Don't make us hunt for it.) And include the link -- even seemingly short-lived DBR threads have a habit of lingering, long after the article leaves the DBR main page. In a few days no one visiting the thread will have any idea what anyone here is talking about.

    The article itself is meh. A journalist searches for a unique angle on the three-point shooting story, finds it, and writes an article that follows through on that angle, dives deep into stats, and conveys a complete thought. Unfortunately, that complete thought was probably not worth pursuing. Why would anyone think Jordan Goldwire's three-point performance was indicative of the team at large?



    Woof. Setting aside the tacky "Georgian" thing, Goldwire is leading the way with those 0.75 three pointers he attempts every game.

    The stat table, while pretty, is similarly useless. What are we supposed to learn about some of the most infrequent 3-point shooters in recent Duke history? These are reserves who did not play many minutes, or regular rotation players who were not in the habit of taking outside shots. Had he expanded the parameters to the lowest percentages rather than fewest makes, he might have stumbled across a high-volume shooter that (numerically) had no business being a high-volume shooter. But this table shows me nothing.

    Part of bad journalism is lacking a second person -- copy editor, publisher, even a friend -- who is willing to tell the writer to try again.
    Posting against you username again?

    Excellent post. Easy to forget the general disconnect between the "main page" and here on the forum. Two very different worlds.

  20. #20
    That guy had Goldwire listed twice, and for combined 2018-2019 he’s shooting 25% — that’s good enough for how this team is shooting — plus he made a sweet three prior game and he’s a solid on ball defender and passer to spell Tre. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a hit piece as much as it’s Anderson Consulting.

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