Climate Change

[Wander]

As a brief example, let me offer (an abbreviated version of ) a challenge to the "98%" consensus figure that is often cited and misrepresented. The origin of the figure is a pair of papers by John Cook. The 97% figure is a fraud, and you can verify that using his publicly available paper and his publicly available data for the survey responses. It takes about ten minutes do so, and only requires a computer and the ability to do some basic arithmetic. If you want links or page numbers or anything, PM me and I'll reply later.

Your statements here are all incorrect. The consensus figure comes from multiple peer-reviewed studies by multiple authors. You can quibble if 97% is exactly correct (personally, I think it's a little low), but it's very clearly somewhere between 90% and 100%.

Again, if this topic is not your cup of tea, that's fine, but as long as people don't start talking about voting, political parties, or candidates, don't ruin a topic about science and lifestyle for everyone else.

[-jk]

If everyone is respectful and cites peer reviewed science, we’re good.

‘Cause peer reviewed science is good, if not always perfect.

-jk

[devil84]

For the record, I have no issue with this thread. Actually, I think it is a worthy topic to discuss, and one that we should all be concerned with. I support Fuse for starting this thread as a way of encouraging/guiding others to do their part in reducing our impact on the environment. I do find it quite hypocritical, however, that DBR allows some borderline PPB topics to be OK but not others

This is response is directed to all readers/posters, not just the quoted poster.

Your moderators are a group of imperfect humans that hope that borderline PPB topics can be discussed in a civil fashion. Like any other thread on DBR, we prefer give everyone the benefit of the doubt to uphold the community standards. However, there are some topics that we know are highly inflammatory, so we'll shut those down before they get out of hand. Some topics devolve quickly and will get shut down, others take longer or don't ever get heated. This thread hasn't caused a flurry of reported posts or PMs pleading for sanity (at least not yet). So, we'll take the imperfect, human route and will be called "hypocrites" for now, unless we shut it down and then we'll be called hostile censors or something. *shrug* Just keep it civil and follow all the other rules and report posts that you think cross the line and the moderators don't become an issue! And if you don't like the topic, find another thread!

The original poster wished for ideas to help all of us be better stewards of our environment. The eventual sidetrack into "is climate change real?" happened -- it seems to be handled well by all sides so far. I'd love to see more on the things that people can do to reduce their impact on our planet. It's the only one we have, so we need to take care of it, even if one doesn't believe we're on a fast track to extensive and irreversible change.

To that end, let me add what me and my family try to do:

1. Recycle more than goes into landfills. We recycle 2-3 times the amount of waste headed to the landfill. Another form of recycling is to shop at thrift and consignment stores, particularly for the fast growing grandson who, at 10 months old, has been through several wardrobes and developmentally appropriate toys that aren't used long enough to wear out. No need to buy new.
2. Group errands together so we aren't taking excessive trips in the car. We'd love to bicycle to quick stops for items that can be carried on a bicycle (at least half our trips), but distracted and aggressive drivers on the roads just outside our subdivision make that a dangerous proposition.
3. Almost all of our lightbulbs are now LED or CFL. All appliances are Energy Star where possible.
4. Smarthome thermostats are programmed with logic to determine if both of us are out of the house (based on the location of our phones), adjust the temperature down for heating, up for cooling. That's in addition to adjusting sleep temperatures vs. daytime temps for the season.
5. Cooking food in a smaller countertop oven (a Cuisinart steam/convection oven) instead of heating up the standard oven for a relatively small amount of food -- we don't use the big oven except for holiday meals or large gatherings. An immersion circulator for sous vide cooking and an Instant Pot are two more methods of cooking that use less energy than an oven. These three devices also have caused us to find many new delicious recipes, too, which is a bonus!
6. Reducing beef and meat consumption and increasing the quantity of vegetables from the local farmer's market. If you feel that vegetarian meals are too difficult for you, many recipes that are a combination of meats and vegetables (like stews and skillet dishes) taste just as good if you use 75% of the meat, or even 50%. Bonus: it's healthier for your body as you might consume fewer calories and maybe lower your cholesterol, among other benefits.
7. We live under a ton of very large, mature trees. Many are pine, some are deciduous. That helps immensely in the summer! However, we cannot entertain the idea of solar. When we downsize our house in a few years, that will be a major consideration.

Here in the Triangle, Duke Energy sends reports on how one's home compares with an efficient home vs. the average home in the area of comparable age, square footage, and uses the same fuel for heat (either gas or electric). That about 1500 homes for us, IIRC. For our report, the average home is generally around 30-60% more energy than the efficient home, depending on the season (more if the season is extreme). We come in at 60-80% of an efficient home. We don't really feel like we've made huge changes to our lifestyle to significantly reduce our electric consumption, especially when compared to friends and family who complain about how large their electric bills are. OK, our house is a little cooler in the winter, a little warmer in the summer than theirs, but still quite comfortable. All the little things add up to much more than I thought.

[mattman91]

This is response is directed to all readers/posters, not just the quoted poster.

Your moderators are a group of imperfect humans that hope that borderline PPB topics can be discussed in a civil fashion. Like any other thread on DBR, we prefer give everyone the benefit of the doubt to uphold the community standards. However, there are some topics that we know are highly inflammatory, so we'll shut those down before they get out of hand. Some topics devolve quickly and will get shut down, others take longer or don't ever get heated. This thread hasn't caused a flurry of reported posts or PMs pleading for sanity (at least not yet). So, we'll take the imperfect, human route and will be called "hypocrites" for now, unless we shut it down and then we'll be called hostile censors or something. *shrug* Just keep it civil and follow all the other rules and report posts that you think cross the line and the moderators don't become an issue! And if you don't like the topic, find another thread!

The original poster wished for ideas to help all of us be better stewards of our environment. The eventual sidetrack into "is climate change real?" happened -- it seems to be handled well by all sides so far. I'd love to see more on the things that people can do to reduce their impact on our planet. It's the only one we have, so we need to take care of it, even if one doesn't believe we're on a fast track to extensive and irreversible change.

To that end, let me add what me and my family try to do:

1. Recycle more than goes into landfills. We recycle 2-3 times the amount of waste headed to the landfill. Another form of recycling is to shop at thrift and consignment stores, particularly for the fast growing grandson who, at 10 months old, has been through several wardrobes and developmentally appropriate toys that aren't used long enough to wear out. No need to buy new.
2. Group errands together so we aren't taking excessive trips in the car. We'd love to bicycle to quick stops for items that can be carried on a bicycle (at least half our trips), but distracted and aggressive drivers on the roads just outside our subdivision make that a dangerous proposition.
3. Almost all of our lightbulbs are now LED or CFL. All appliances are Energy Star where possible.
4. Smarthome thermostats are programmed with logic to determine if both of us are out of the house (based on the location of our phones), adjust the temperature down for heating, up for cooling. That's in addition to adjusting sleep temperatures vs. daytime temps for the season.
5. Cooking food in a smaller countertop oven (a Cuisinart steam/convection oven) instead of heating up the standard oven for a relatively small amount of food -- we don't use the big oven except for holiday meals or large gatherings. An immersion circulator for sous vide cooking and an Instant Pot are two more methods of cooking that use less energy than an oven. These three devices also have caused us to find many new delicious recipes, too, which is a bonus!
6. Reducing beef and meat consumption and increasing the quantity of vegetables from the local farmer's market. If you feel that vegetarian meals are too difficult for you, many recipes that are a combination of meats and vegetables (like stews and skillet dishes) taste just as good if you use 75% of the meat, or even 50%. Bonus: it's healthier for your body as you might consume fewer calories and maybe lower your cholesterol, among other benefits.
7. We live under a ton of very large, mature trees. Many are pine, some are deciduous. That helps immensely in the summer! However, we cannot entertain the idea of solar. When we downsize our house in a few years, that will be a major consideration.

Here in the Triangle, Duke Energy sends reports on how one's home compares with an efficient home vs. the average home in the area of comparable age, square footage, and uses the same fuel for heat (either gas or electric). That about 1500 homes for us, IIRC. For our report, the average home is generally around 30-60% more energy than the efficient home, depending on the season (more if the season is extreme). We come in at 60-80% of an efficient home. We don't really feel like we've made huge changes to our lifestyle to significantly reduce our electric consumption, especially when compared to friends and family who complain about how large their electric bills are. OK, our house is a little cooler in the winter, a little warmer in the summer than theirs, but still quite comfortable. All the little things add up to much more than I thought.

I should have been clearer. I will admit that it came off as a bit snide, but I wasn't directing my comment towards the moderators, it was meant for the entire community. We can civilly discuss topics like elections or Brexit without crossing the PPB line, but some posters can't help themselves and try to make a topic (of which they often know little about) into a PPB issue and ruin it for those that were interested in discussing the subject in a non-policy related manner.

I would get back on topic, but my contributions are peanuts compared to what the rest of y'all do. I'll certainly follow this thread and try to incorporate what is shared into my daily routine. Not going to stop eating red meat though.

[YmoBeThere]

The latest home remodel on This Old House has been a "net zero" home. My house was certified Energy Star Version 3 compliant when it was completed in 2012. There are lots of opportunities in the housing stock.

[budwom]

The latest home remodel on This Old House has been a "net zero" home. My house was certified Energy Star Version 3 compliant when it was completed in 2012. There are lots of opportunities in the housing stock.

speaking of the housing stock. I live in an area where a lot of energy is needed to stay warm in the winter, so most people do a pretty good job insulating their homes as best they can, minimizing energy usage, etc.
But often I just feel like local efforts are just a molecule in the bucket...for example, went to NYC a few years ago (private residence where heat is often included in the rent, for better or worse). Heat was blazing out of the radiators in a bedroom, but the
heat couldn't be turned off, so the window was WIDE open AND the A/C was on...and Manhattan alone has 3X the population of my state.

(it is true, however, that the dense pack of apartments and the like is an efficiency plus)...

[Troublemaker]

IMO, we should just have the same rules as we have for any other thread. If the topic isn't something you're into, that's fine, but maybe just avoid the thread. It's like people going out of their way to post in baseball threads about how boring they find the sport.

Again, if this topic is not your cup of tea, that's fine, but as long as people don't start talking about voting, political parties, or candidates, don't ruin a topic about science and lifestyle for everyone else.

You do realize this answer is wholly unsatisfying, right? (devil84 gave a more satisfying answer about "imperfect moderators," an answer that I'll get to lauding in a minute). In an ideal world, I actually would support your suggested approach (ignore the thread if it's not one's cup of tea) and have previously advocated for it. But DBR has never worked that way. When Billy Graham, one of the most admired men ever according to Gallup (see below), died, trolling posters were able to shut down his thread within 10 posts. (And what that encouraged, incidentally, was a revenge shutdown months later when someone else died that the previous trolls would have loved to post hagiographies to, except that others had remembered the Graham shutdown and would not abide the inconsistency.)



The "this is a thread about lifestyle and science" argument doesn't seem satisfying, either. If there were a thread topic on here titled "How to Raise Christian Kids in the Modern World," I don't think it would last very long. Neither would "The Science of Genders" (subtitled "All 2 of Them"). Also, as BLPOG brilliantly points out below, this thread and other borderline-PPB threads (including my hypotheticals) will contain embedded assumptions that are PPB and encourage responses that are PPB:

Second is a more general point about the nature of explicitly or borderline-PPB board discussions. Many comments contain embedded assumptions that do not appear "PPB" for one who doesn't challenge them, but for anyone who would - whether on the basis of fact, or opinion/values - the form of the challenge in a reply will appear as being obviously PPB/against forum rules.

So now, as promised up-post, time to laud devil84's answer of "imperfect moderators" and why I find that satisfying. Implicit in devil84's response is that the mods sometimes have to operate by gut feeling and not strict adherence to rules or even to consistency. One may believe in the science of global warming, but one shouldn't believe in the science of this thread being allowed to exist, in other words. It's art, not science, and we'll just have to trust their gut feeling on this one. (I do think the thread will turn out fine.)

[camion]

I believe K frequently goes with his gut feeling during games. His gut feeling is informed by years/decades of study and analysis so there is that.


There, I injected basketball into climate change. .

[gus]

You do realize this answer is wholly unsatisfying, right? (devil84 gave a more satisfying answer about "imperfect moderators," an answer that I'll get to lauding in a minute). In an ideal world, I actually would support your suggested approach (ignore the thread if it's not one's cup of tea) and have previously advocated for it. But DBR has never worked that way. When Billy Graham, one of the most admired men ever according to Gallup (see below), died, trolling posters were able to shut down his thread within 10 posts. (And what that encouraged, incidentally, was a revenge shutdown months later when someone else died that the previous trolls would have loved to post hagiographies to, except that others had remembered the Graham shutdown and would not abide the inconsistency.)



The "this is a thread about lifestyle and science" argument doesn't seem satisfying, either. If there were a thread topic on here titled "How to Raise Christian Kids in the Modern World," I don't think it would last very long. Neither would "The Science of Genders" (subtitled "All 2 of Them"). Also, as BLPOG brilliantly points out below, this thread and other borderline-PPB threads (including my hypotheticals) will contain embedded assumptions that are PPB and encourage responses that are PPB:



So now, as promised up-post, time to laud devil84's answer of "imperfect moderators" and why I find that satisfying. Implicit in devil84's response is that the mods sometimes have to operate by gut feeling and not strict adherence to rules or even to consistency. One may believe in the science of global warming, but one shouldn't believe in the science of this thread being allowed to exist, in other words. It's art, not science, and we'll just have to trust their gut feeling on this one. (I do think the thread will turn out fine.)

Trying to live up to your moniker?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You do realize this answer is wholly unsatisfying, right? (devil84 gave a more satisfying answer about "imperfect moderators," an answer that I'll get to lauding in a minute). In an ideal world, I actually would support your suggested approach (ignore the thread if it's not one's cup of tea) and have previously advocated for it. But DBR has never worked that way. When Billy Graham, one of the most admired men ever according to Gallup (see below), died, trolling posters were able to shut down his thread within 10 posts. (And what that encouraged, incidentally, was a revenge shutdown months later when someone else died that the previous trolls would have loved to post hagiographies to, except that others had remembered the Graham shutdown and would not abide the inconsistency.)



The "this is a thread about lifestyle and science" argument doesn't seem satisfying, either. If there were a thread topic on here titled "How to Raise Christian Kids in the Modern World," I don't think it would last very long. Neither would "The Science of Genders" (subtitled "All 2 of Them"). Also, as BLPOG brilliantly points out below, this thread and other borderline-PPB threads (including my hypotheticals) will contain embedded assumptions that are PPB and encourage responses that are PPB:



So now, as promised up-post, time to laud devil84's answer of "imperfect moderators" and why I find that satisfying. Implicit in devil84's response is that the mods sometimes have to operate by gut feeling and not strict adherence to rules or even to consistency. One may believe in the science of global warming, but one shouldn't believe in the science of this thread being allowed to exist, in other words. It's art, not science, and we'll just have to trust their gut feeling on this one. (I do think the thread will turn out fine.)

All of your examples and charts seem determined to further politicize and polarize this thread. Why are you doing exactly what you complain about others doing?

I had your back on both the Billy Graham and McCain threads, but this is pretty absurd and smacks of some sort of "gotcha" scenario. As in "this thread is destined to be shut down because people won't behave, and if people do behave and it isn't shut down, then this board is clearly biased. Oh, and obviously no one will leave a thread alone they don't want to participate in, because I won't either."

Your examples of gender and religion are clearly complicated social polarizing issues. What if the thread were instead "how to dress my children for school when the weather is extreme?"

[fuse]

Timing is everything.
Our clothes dryer died.

Anyone have an energy efficient dryer they like?

Its been over a decade since we bought new washers and dryers.
At that point, LG had good features and price point.

Holy cow are dryers expensive.

[Troublemaker]

All of your examples and charts seem determined to further politicize and polarize this thread. Why are you doing exactly what you complain about others doing?

I had your back on both the Billy Graham and McCain threads, but this is pretty absurd and smacks of some sort of "gotcha" scenario. As in "this thread is destined to be shut down because people won't behave, and if people do behave and it isn't shut down, then this board is clearly biased. Oh, and obviously no one will leave a thread alone they don't want to participate in, because I won't either."

Your examples of gender and religion are clearly complicated social polarizing issues. What if the thread were instead "how to dress my children for school when the weather is extreme?"

You're reading the intent of my post all wrong. Maybe it's because I buried the lede, but I at this point support this thread staying open and think it's harmless, really. (Not that my opinion matters). The mods already ruled so you have nothing to worry about.

My point was only that there is no "cup of tea" precedent or "lifestyle and science" bylaw governing the continuance or closure of threads. My examples were merely to demonstrate that.

Sometimes moderating is art, not science, and I support our moderators' decision.

[PackMan97]

Timing is everything.
Our clothes dryer died.

Anyone have an energy efficient dryer they like?

Its been over a decade since we bought new washers and dryers.
At that point, LG had good features and price point.

Holy cow are dryers expensive.

I believe there is no "energy efficient" dryer, aside from a clothesline. I'm pretty sure the only thing that means is it has a moisture sensor to turn off automatically. That's about it.

[gus]

I believe there is no "energy efficient" dryer, aside from a clothesline. I'm pretty sure the only thing that means is it has a moisture sensor to turn off automatically. That's about it.

Yeah -- that makes sense. Energy Star rating just specifies a lower energy consumption (measured using a ration of laundry weight over energy consumed when in standby and when operating). I'm sure you can make the motor more efficient, but a sensor rather than a timer is probably the most effective tool.

We have an LG dryer (which is energy star rated), but only use it for towels and sheets that we can't easily hang. Almost all of our clothing is dried on a rack in our laundry room (we don't have the option of line drying outside unfortunately).

[cato]

Timing is everything.
Our clothes dryer died.

Anyone have an energy efficient dryer they like?

Its been over a decade since we bought new washers and dryers.
At that point, LG had good features and price point.

Holy cow are dryers expensive.

Just went down this road. We got an LG washer/dryer set on sale and it is a big improvement on water use. I assume energy too, but haven’t exactly looked at the numbers on that one (water is a bigger bill, although electricity is also crazy expensive).

I spent a lot of time in consumer reports and online until I found what we wanted.

Not sure how old your dryer is, but if the space around it is tight, measure before you buy!

[cato]

You're reading the intent of my post all wrong. Maybe it's because I buried the lede, but I at this point support this thread staying open and think it's harmless, really. (Not that my opinion matters). The mods already ruled so you have nothing to worry about.

My point was only that there is no "cup of tea" precedent or "lifestyle and science" bylaw governing the continuance or closure of threads. My examples were merely to demonstrate that.

Sometimes moderating is art, not science, and I support our moderators' decision.

Technically, we are not supposed to discuss moderation in the open forum. So I won’t do that. Instead I will note that, when I take privileges away from my kids because they cannot behave, they sometimes can earn bits and pieces back by proving that they have improved their behavior and ability to follow the rules.

[YmoBeThere]

Years ago, when I was living in AZ, I hung a load of laundry up outside. The first items were dry by the time I finished hanging the entire load. Yes, it was afternoon in summer.

[devildeac]

Timing is everything.
Our clothes dryer died.

Anyone have an energy efficient dryer they like?

Its been over a decade since we bought new washers and dryers.
At that point, LG had good features and price point.

Holy cow are dryers expensive.

Don't buy from Lowe's. They installed our dryer improperly a year ago, we had water leaks in our ceiling needing repairs and painting, they admitted it was installed improperly and refuse to return phone calls/e-mails about our costs/dissatisfaction.

We have been happy with our Maytag but not sure about model #. I think it was about $600. Not sure about energy efficiency but it's a late 2017 or early 2018 model so it should be fairly efficient.

[Acymetric]

Don't buy from Lowe's. They installed our dryer improperly a year ago, we had water leaks in our ceiling needing repairs and painting, they admitted it was installed improperly and refuse to return phone calls/e-mails about our costs/dissatisfaction.

We have been happy with our Maytag but not sure about model #. I think it was about $600. Not sure about energy efficiency but it's a late 2017 or early 2018 model so it should be fairly efficient.

Your dryer​ had water leaks?

FWIW, if you already have the connections you should be able to self-install. If you don't already have the connections...yeah not something I would trust to techs from Lowes/Sears/whatever.

For the poster in need of a new dryer, given that there aren't necessarily huge differences in efficiency for dryers, you might also consider checking out any Re-Store (or similar) locations near you, a local appliance refurb company, or even Craigslist. Re-Store will deliver, and if you buy from an appliance restoration company on Craigslist they probably will too. I got a refurbed washer/dryer set from an appliance refurb company I found through Craigslist and it ran great for 5 years, at which point I sold them still in good working order for about $30 less than what I paid for them. Paid $300 for the set, included delivery, install and a 1 year full warranty. You can save a whole lot of money buying used without major problems.

If you really want to go cheap, people will frequently list dryers and other large appliances for free on Craigslist if you are willing to pick up because they are moving or getting new ones and need to get rid of the old ones fast. To tie this directly back to the thread, this is a great way to reduce/reuse/recycle!

[YmoBeThere]

Your dryer​ had water leaks?!

My dryer has steam cycles which need water.