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  1. #21
    Let's talk about the major financial impact Rutgers has had filling the league's coffers with the New Jersey market. It's probably even more substantial than what the headache powder team has done for the ACC.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    I hope they cry their small, close set eyes out of their big heads on their wee wee pillows.
    FIFY

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 75Crazie View Post
    Not as far as I am concerned. That rivalry died several years ago, when it became clear that the Duke and uNC basketball programs were in fact playing two completely different games.
    Totally agree with this sentiment.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 75Crazie View Post
    Not as far as I am concerned. That rivalry died several years ago, when it became clear that the Duke and uNC basketball programs were in fact playing two completely different games.
    The rivalry died for me, not because unCheat played a different game, it was because unCheat played by different rules.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo2000 View Post
    The Md fans I know all say the same: Horrible move for the fans, but had to be done for budgetary reasons. They were so far underwater with their athletics budget, the turtles were in danger of drowning. <rimshot>
    This is the overwhelming sentiment I see. It is a remarkably frank one from a fanbase not historically known for its rationality or self awareness. When the move was announced there was a lot of talk about finally finding a conference that appreciated them, how the big ten is stronger academically and that is where a public ivy such as Maryland belongs, how their football program needs stronger competition while their basketball team could teach the others how to play the sport, etc. Even so there were still many who hated the move from the outset and would not play the glad game. Now that they are into it and it neither feels familiar nor feels like an improvement, there is no attempt at rationalization. They understand that there was no other choice and leave it at that. Fan support for basketball remains healthy. It had already fallen off a bit since the end of the Gary Williams era. However, I do not see the same passion. A lot of that passion was driven by the outsider, we do not get any respect, the system is rigged against us mythology of their relationship with the ACC. Now they have encountered a conference full of opposing fans who actually could care less about them. In turn, they lack the familiarity needed to breed contempt. There was some tentative effort to cast Penn State as a natural rival. They are the next state over and Maryland used to play them frequently in football. However, it is hard to have a rivalry when the all time record of Maryland in that series is 39-2-1. Speaking of football, attendance there continues to fall despite the move. That was one of the things that got the Athletic Department into such dire financial trouble. They renovated Byrd Stadium with a build it and they will come expectation that never materialized. If nothing else, joining the Big Ten was supposed to mean that, in a conference full of huge state universities with fanbases that traveled well and already had lots of alumni in the area, those seats would at least be filled with opposing fans. That effect does seem to have happened, but it appears that ticket sales among Maryland's own football supporters keep falling even more precipitously.

    On a related topic, I recently saw some interesting information and this is as good a place to post it as anywhere. Since 2016, the Big Ten has held an event every year in New York at Madison Square Garden called the Super Saturday. It consists of a regular season Big Ten basketball game in the afternoon and a hockey game in the evening. The idea seems to be to promote brand awareness for the Big Ten in its new Eastern outpost and give the lucky fanbases of two member schools the same giddy excitement and triumphalism as the Visigoths overrunning Rome. Duke, of course, typically rents Madison Square Garden for a game every year and fills it. Here are the attendance totals for the basketball portion of Super Saturday:

    2016 Michigan vs. Penn State - 12,108
    2017 Wisconsin vs. Rutgers - 8,531
    2018 Ohio State vs. Minnesota - 4,136
    2019 Illinois vs. Maryland - 7,239

    It looks like the event will not be renewed beyond this year. Have they considered taking it Off Broadway?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurber Whyte View Post
    This is the overwhelming sentiment I see. It is a remarkably frank one from a fanbase not historically known for its rationality or self awareness. When the move was announced there was a lot of talk about finally finding a conference that appreciated them, how the big ten is stronger academically and that is where a public ivy such as Maryland belongs, how their football program needs stronger competition while their basketball team could teach the others how to play the sport, etc. Even so there were still many who hated the move from the outset and would not play the glad game. Now that they are into it and it neither feels familiar nor feels like an improvement, there is no attempt at rationalization. They understand that there was no other choice and leave it at that. Fan support for basketball remains healthy. It had already fallen off a bit since the end of the Gary Williams era. However, I do not see the same passion. A lot of that passion was driven by the outsider, we do not get any respect, the system is rigged against us mythology of their relationship with the ACC. Now they have encountered a conference full of opposing fans who actually could care less about them. In turn, they lack the familiarity needed to breed contempt. There was some tentative effort to cast Penn State as a natural rival. They are the next state over and Maryland used to play them frequently in football. However, it is hard to have a rivalry when the all time record of Maryland in that series is 39-2-1. Speaking of football, attendance there continues to fall despite the move. That was one of the things that got the Athletic Department into such dire financial trouble. They renovated Byrd Stadium with a build it and they will come expectation that never materialized. If nothing else, joining the Big Ten was supposed to mean that, in a conference full of huge state universities with fanbases that traveled well and already had lots of alumni in the area, those seats would at least be filled with opposing fans. That effect does seem to have happened, but it appears that ticket sales among Maryland's own football supporters keep falling even more precipitously.

    On a related topic, I recently saw some interesting information and this is as good a place to post it as anywhere. Since 2016, the Big Ten has held an event every year in New York at Madison Square Garden called the Super Saturday. It consists of a regular season Big Ten basketball game in the afternoon and a hockey game in the evening. The idea seems to be to promote brand awareness for the Big Ten in its new Eastern outpost and give the lucky fanbases of two member schools the same giddy excitement and triumphalism as the Visigoths overrunning Rome. Duke, of course, typically rents Madison Square Garden for a game every year and fills it. Here are the attendance totals for the basketball portion of Super Saturday:

    2016 Michigan vs. Penn State - 12,108
    2017 Wisconsin vs. Rutgers - 8,531
    2018 Ohio State vs. Minnesota - 4,136
    2019 Illinois vs. Maryland - 7,239

    It looks like the event will not be renewed beyond this year. Have they considered taking it Off Broadway?
    If Maryland fans believe they are a Public Ivy, they are even more delusional than I thought. No way, no how. Wikipedia (I know, not accurate on everying to be sure) has the traditional list, e.g. Cal, Michigan, holes, VA, Texas, Bill and Mary, even Vermont (think their membership should have lapsed, frankly)...plus also rans...Maryland is in the sub-also ran category ...

    good info on the MSG attendance stuff, no one cares about the Big 10 in NY, and no one cares about Rutgers. A solid matchup of really top teams will get attendance, but there is no affinity with the Big 10 at all.

  7. #27

    Woe is Maryland

    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    If Maryland fans believe they are a Public Ivy, they are even more delusional than I thought. No way, no how. Wikipedia (I know, not accurate on everying to be sure) has the traditional list, e.g. Cal, Michigan, holes, VA, Texas, Bill and Mary, even Vermont (think their membership should have lapsed, frankly)...plus also rans...Maryland is in the sub-also ran category ...

    good info on the MSG attendance stuff, no one cares about the Big 10 in NY, and no one cares about Rutgers. A solid matchup of really top teams will get attendance, but there is no affinity with the Big 10 at all.
    Maryland is much improved academically since the days I competed against them in the early 80ís (I was recruited by Maryland then, and gained admission out of state with a postcard and the comment that I had double the ACT score needed to get in). Maryland really isnít a Public Ivy, and wonít get there soon. Their endowment is laughingly small, embarrassing really. Professors at the school, frustrated by this fact, point to years of spending in Annapolis on the absolute cesspool that is Baltimore, ignoring the opportunity of being 10 miles from the US Capitol.

    I do go to see Lacrosse games at Maryland (a sport which is new to me), and frankly College Park is rather ugly surrounded by somewhat lousy neighborhoods with no urban charm. This kills them in football, because even if they move beyond mediocrity the game day experience is depressing, unless you are a Michigan or Ohio State fan from the DC area who finally can see their team play on the cheap (very cheap).

    The Big 10 move was a financial one. I was raised in Northern Illinois with a steady diet of Big 10 football and basketball, watching the games on grainy UHF channels with the silouhette of the Sears Tower (now Willis Tower) shimmering on the screen. The core of the Big 10 has no connection to Maryland, and I donít see it happening, so the Maryland Big 10 move will continue to have all the look and feel of a business transaction.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    I do follow B1G sports, and can report one sign of Maryland's impact in the league. They have earned a reputation for nasty fans and low class behavior. Shocking, I know.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    I do follow B1G sports, and can report one sign of Maryland's impact in the league. They have earned a reputation for nasty fans and low class behavior. Shocking, I know.
    Well that didn't take long.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    Well that didn't take long.
    Well, they are who they are...
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    Well, they are who they are...
    My wife is an Alum of U MD.

    She roots for Duke. 'Nuff said.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    My wife is an Alum of U MD.

    She roots for Duke. 'Nuff said.
    HAH, yes and to clarify...I meant Terp fans...
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurber Whyte View Post
    ... Speaking of football, attendance there continues to fall despite the move. Ö joining the Big Ten was supposed to mean that, in a conference full of huge state universities with fanbases that traveled well and already had lots of alumni in the area, those seats would at least be filled with opposing fans. That effect does seem to have happened, but it appears that ticket sales among Maryland's own football supporters keep falling even more precipitously. ...
    I wonder how opponent attendance will track with which party is in the White House?

    The housing market completely turns over with a party change, I wonder if, for example, the UM and Illinois games sell more tickets to opposing fans when the dems hold the White House, and Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska sales are up when the republicans are in?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    I wonder how opponent attendance will track with which party is in the White House?

    The housing market completely turns over with a party change, I wonder if, for example, the UM and Illinois games sell more tickets to opposing fans when the dems hold the White House, and Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska sales are up when the republicans are in?
    Actually I don't think the housing market changes...everybody stays in Washington forever...they just have one kind of job while in power and another out of power (often more lucrative financially out of power.) I mean, people never leave. There's a palpable aphrodisiacal impact of power/money colliding.
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  15. #35
    I'll reiterate what some folks have said upthread:

    For basketball, this was a huge loss. They were relevant in the ACC, they are irrelevant in the BIG10. Their natural rivals are also completely irrelevant in basketball in the BIG10.

    Football, on the other hand, seems to have increased its relevance. Regional rivalries with PSU and Rutgers have been renewed, and those rivalries stew all year due to recruiting battles.

    While the "rivalry" has been decidedly one-sided for a long time, PSU vs. UMD is a game PSU fans get excited about - mostly because there are a lot of recruiting battles against UMD (and because of some really low-class moves by UMD in recent games - the "no handshake," the flattening of PSU's kicker, etc). There's no love lost between PSU and UMD, and it is pretty satisfying (as a PSU fan) to see UMD come to happy valley and leave unhappy.

    UMD and Rutgers is a burgeoning rivalry as well, though both teams are definitely in a down-turn (and UMD has some particularly challenging issues surrounding their football program now).

    From my limited perspective, I feel like UMD would rather have a successful football program than basketball program, and perhaps thought that the move would help the football program. It probably has boosted attendance at their football games, but the downside for UMD is that now neither programs are particularly successful. I can't imagine any fan giving the change anything but a low grade.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    ^ some good points, but from what I've read, they were in a DEEEEEEP financial hole (still are I believe) and the prime motivation was money,money and money not football, though football as you say may somewhat benefits.
    And even now they only get a reduced share of Big 10 revenue due to their junior status.

    Big problem: donors to the athletic program at MD give only half the Big 10 average ($15 million vs $28 million)...bottom line, they are somewhat better off financially than they would have been had they stayed in the ACC (hence the move) but they are still suffering financially.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    I think had MD reached out for help to the ACC and honestly explained their financial problems, the ACC (and member schools) would have helped and MD wouldn't have had to leave. I think MD compounded their financial failures by not being honest about it and not seeking help from member schools. Although I hated their fanbase, I liked having them in the ACC (since I live in the DC area). I hate losing the DC market to the B1G. Although having UVA and VT in the ACC helps with the DC market.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta 'burbs
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    ^ some good points, but from what I've read, they were in a DEEEEEEP financial hole (still are I believe) and the prime motivation was money,money and money not football, though football as you say may somewhat benefits.
    And even now they only get a reduced share of Big 10 revenue due to their junior status.

    Big problem: donors to the athletic program at MD give only half the Big 10 average ($15 million vs $28 million)...bottom line, they are somewhat better off financially than they would have been had they stayed in the ACC (hence the move) but they are still suffering financially.
    Maryland donors have other financial considerations: Bail money and fines/court costs for rioting and disorderly conduct.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    ^ some good points, but from what I've read, they were in a DEEEEEEP financial hole (still are I believe) and the prime motivation was money,money and money not football, though football as you say may somewhat benefits.
    And even now they only get a reduced share of Big 10 revenue due to their junior status.

    Big problem: donors to the athletic program at MD give only half the Big 10 average ($15 million vs $28 million)...bottom line, they are somewhat better off financially than they would have been had they stayed in the ACC (hence the move) but they are still suffering financially.
    No question the move was primarily financial. I'm certain of that. And in the short-term, probably a good move. Not sure it will be beneficial in the long-run. But honestly, I think a lot of their financial and PR problems are bigger as a result of terrible judgment and tragedy, which has nothing to do with their conference. UMD manages to self-inflict a ton of harm to their university. I have some friends that are alums and used to be super fans for football and basketball. They barely even follow the sport now because they're so ashamed of the mistakes the university has made (unrelated to conference realignment).

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TruBlu View Post
    Maryland donors have other financial considerations: Bail money and fines/court costs for rioting and disorderly conduct.
    I know this is a joke (and a solid one at that), but there's definitely a lot of truth to this. Legal fees, settlements, and contract buyouts are expensive.

    Not to mention, enrollment and recruiting are going to suffer for a while from this. As painful as decrease in donations are, enrollment decreases are a much harder hit, and the ramifications last far longer. Rebuilding a reputation is a LONG process, and most college budgets can't easily handle that long process.

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