The bolded paragraph is basically what I was going to say. I interpreted the OPs question to be, "Is Zion the best basketball player to ever wear a Duke jersey?" The legacy stuff doesn't factor into answering that question.
For example, if LeBron played one year at Duke, I would say he is the best basketball player to ever play for Duke. Heck, Kyrie played only 11 games for Duke, and he was top-2 with Grant Hill as best basketball player to ever play for Duke.
I'm not all the way there yet, but if Zion finishes this year at or above his current level of play, I probably will be.
One has to remember that in DT's day, dunking was not allowed. Monte Towe to DT perfected the alley oop. DT was often like poetry, similar to what others have said about GHill on this string. Except, I must admit, DT was better.
Much of Zion's ferocity and awe factor comes from his dunks. You only saw DT's dunking ferocity in the pros. He wasn't called Skywalker for nothing.
I will say this - DT *has* to be first team all-time All-ACC, and quite arguably he's the GOAT of the ACC. Zion isn't there yet, even considering individual seasons. He could be, but the season has to play out.
Also I think trying to compare Zion to DT is like comparing Wooden to K. Can't be rationally done... except for one thing, number of titles (which one has to concede to Wooden). DT has a NCAA title. When Zion has a title, I'll be more than happy to wade into further murkiness!
9F
Tim Stoddard threw a lot of the ally oop passes to Thompson. Stoddard later pitched in the Majors.
Another thought because I'm into this topic... And please don't rain hate on me, because I love watching Zion, too, and I'm ecstatic he's on this team, but:
- FT shooting
- 3pt shooting
needs work.
Not to say he can't improve, but I'm not expecting to see it do so while he's in a Duke uniform. Does that mean he's not one of the greatest players to have put on a Duke jersey? No. But some of the other guys one could mention in the discussion - Redick, Laettner, Battier, etc. - would win these rounds against Zion. Doesn't mean he's can't be labeled the greatest. Heroes usually have an Achilles' heel...
Also no one can deny Shaq was one of the greatest of all-time, and he sucked at both. Chamberlain, too. But maybe that's why they are often discussed for GOAT of the NBA but never actually picked. Just saying. And if Zion is reading this, I hope it stokes his fire to improve on both!
9F
Let's turn this around. Since Michael Jordan is generally viewed as the greatest basketball player of all time (sure some say Wilt or Karrem, but go with me here), and since LeBron never played college ball:
Was Michael Jordan the greatest basketball to have ever played at UNC?
Was MJ the greatest basketball player to have ever put on a UNC uniform?
Is there a difference between the two?
Obviously, MJ is the best UNC player ever (I purposely worded this ambiguously). It certainly ain't Hansbrough.
There's no difference between the 2 ways you worded it (assuming you meant "basketball player", and not "basketball").
The only way you could word it to give to someone not named Michael Jordan is "Which UNC player had the greatest college career?"
Worded almost any other way, the answer is Michael Jordan.
I'd only add that RJ remains #1A among college freshmen and that it wouldn't surprise me if both Cam and Tre are in the NBA All Star game in 2026. I'm also loving what I see in Marques, etc. Zion remains otherworldly, but the season rides, at least to some extent, on the team's ability to maintain their upbeat collegiality. If Zion can continue to be a great teammate and the team can continue to improve, he will have earned his Rushmore status.
One could also word it, "Which UNC player had the greatest college season?"
And honestly, I don't think the answer is necessarily Michael Jordan. Which leads to the old joke:
Q - Who was the person that held MJ to under 20 points per game?
A - Dean Smith
Without going too far out on a limb, I'm venturing to guess that at least statistically for one season, there have been many other UNC players with better stats *and* had the natty. Remember in his junior (and last) year, Carolina lost to IU in the the S16 - the Dan Dakich game... so no title that season. I was thrilled that IU beat UNC that year (still remember those final moments on TV), but we are now paying the piper having to listen to Dakich opine uselessly on ESPN.
I write all of this because of Zion being a 1AD. As I have said - in order to be fair, one has to compare individual seasons when comparing to any other player. If Duke wins a title this year, I think Zion's season could be better than any of MJ's college seasons (he was not the man his freshman year. Worthy and Perkins were ahead of him).
9F
Not to sidetrack us, but I will freely stand up and say I never, ever, ever saw that coming if Tre makes a NBA All-Star game. I think he can be a solid contributor in the pros, but he does not appear to have the physical gifts or the offensive game to develop into an All-Star. I would love to be wrong about this.
Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?
I think he has an outside "shot" (pun not intended). He doesn't hunt for his shot very often with duke, because he doesn't need to. He has this innate ability, like his brother, to know when things are stagnating and he needs to mix it up...otherwise he's a master facilitator. So I think he CAN do some of the things people don't see him do very often, but he doesn't.
Is 3 + d + excellent distributor + sometimes scorer enough to get on an all star team? If he were a couple inches taller, probably.
Ultimately I agree with you, he won't be a regular all star, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he made a team once in his career.
April 1
I do not consider Bobby Hurley borderline at all. He is at the very least ONE OF the greatest college point guards of all time. He played in your shorts defense. He was a one man full court press breaker. He was clutch. His assist numbers are only eclipsed by the manner in which he made some of them - many wrap around passes in traffic that were astonishing. In my mind any all time best Duke team starts with Laettner, Hurley, and Hill. Pick any two to go with them. I can't believe I need to defend Bobby Freakin' Hurley! Sheees. Legen.......dary!
Maybe this wasn't clear, but in the chain of posts between me and the poster I was quoiting, they are weighting pro career success heavily and my lists/comments in response are based on accepting that premise (not saying I think that is the best way to evaluate players, but in this case those are the rules I'm playing by). You don't have to defend Hurley to me. Context matters.
Brother Tyus is carving out a nice niche, currently getting 20+ minutes a game. I could see something similar for Tre, possibly a little higher upside due to his defensive ability and somewhat better athleticism. Tyus has the edge from 3-points, and at the foul line; it would be great to see Tre progress in those areas.