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Thread: Zion!

  1. #81
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    Nov 2007
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    If we're factoring in NBA success, then multiple all-stars Jack Marin and Luol Deng seem to be under-valued.
    Luol Deng: I was tempted to mention him when I brought up Brand and Boozer. He's close.

    Jack Marin: I'll point back to the parts where I indicated I was talking about the "modern era" . That said, he would be right on the edge as well.

  2. #82
    I don't think that I have ever seen anyone who can simultaneously be the most powerful player and the most agile player on the court every game he plays.

  3. #83
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    I don't think that I have ever seen anyone who can simultaneously be the most powerful player and the most agile player on the court every game he plays.
    I was thinking today, he's a combination or pre-back injury Larry Johnson and Dominique Wilkins.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  4. #84
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    Feb 2016
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    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by Messimorgan17 View Post
    Johnny D. dunked on the Admiral in the 86 eastern regionals! Enough said.
    I was there! Abandon Ship!!!

    4 decades of Duke fandom! Oh what a great thing!

  5. #85
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    I was there! Abandon Ship!!!

    4 decades of Duke fandom! Oh what a great thing!
    Die!, Pond Scum!

    -jk

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Luol Deng: I was tempted to mention him when I brought up Brand and Boozer. He's close.

    Jack Marin: I'll point back to the parts where I indicated I was talking about the "modern era" . That said, he would be right on the edge as well.
    How do you define the "Modern Era"? I saw Marin play in '66. Seems pretty modern to me!

    Of course, I probably saw dinosaurs as well. lol

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd Dukie View Post
    How do you define the "Modern Era"? I saw Marin play in '66. Seems pretty modern to me!

    Of course, I probably saw dinosaurs as well. lol
    Easiest hard-line delineations would be shot-clock era or 3 point era. It would be hard to put it any time before the 80s

  8. #88
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    Nov 2009
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    Hudson Valley, NY
    There was a play last night that was truly remarkable. He went up and pulled a rebound away fro two players and then went back up so fast before the other two had even landed.

    I have never seen another Duke player, make that player anywhere, do that.

    In short he does more things better than any other Duke player. If that makes him the greatest, then...

  9. #89
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    Dec 2009
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    North of Durham
    Different strokes for different folks, but I find the discussion of the players who had the greatest season at Duke to be much more compelling than one which also factors in the NBA, particularly if we are trying to measure the greatness of Zion. I'm generally not a big NBA guy so though I obviously root for Duke players to succeed in the NBA, I care far more about what they did at Duke.

    My metric is the guys who I, or a random college basketball fan in Peoria who doesn't have a tie to any team, would stop everything and pay a lot of money to watch play. The ones who consistently generate talk around the water cooler, not solely because of the occasional highlight reel play but their overall body of work. For instance, I live in NY and a colleague on the west coast who is marginally interested in sports but is well aware of my Duke ties has been e-mailing me a lot about Zion.

    That being said, my top four are Laettner, Jason Williams, JJ and Zion. These four could all take over a game and had a certain "wow" factor about them. JJ's senior year when he and Adam Morrison were putting up crazy numbers and he was fighting off ridiculously physical play to get his shots is not getting the credit it deserves. And Williams could truly take over games as a powerful point guard, such as the 54 second Maryland game and the Kentucky game at the Meadowlands. Unfortunately Dawkins is a little before my time.

    I think that RJ deserves honorable mention on some of these lists too. He is getting overshadowed by Zion but is also a truly great player who is very smooth and makes big shots.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by NYBri View Post
    There was a play last night that was truly remarkable. He went up and pulled a rebound away fro two players and then went back up so fast before the other two had even landed.

    I have never seen another Duke player, make that player anywhere, do that.

    In short he does more things better than any other Duke player. If that makes him the greatest, then...
    He does something every game that makes me say "wow"... I am enjoying the heck out of watching him play.

  11. #91
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd Dukie View Post
    How do you define the "Modern Era"? I saw Marin play in '66. Seems pretty modern to me!

    Of course, I probably saw dinosaurs as well. lol
    At least you're still alive posting:

    larson-far-side-dinosaur-extinct.jpg
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  12. #92
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    Oct 2013
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    Madison, WI
    Quote Originally Posted by NYBri View Post
    There was a play last night that was truly remarkable. He went up and pulled a rebound away fro two players and then went back up so fast before the other two had even landed.

    I have never seen another Duke player, make that player anywhere, do that.

    In short he does more things better than any other Duke player. If that makes him the greatest, then...
    Well . . . the play you described was something Marvin Bagley did on a regular basis last season. Let's not get too hyperbolic.

    Bagley probably equaled Zion as a scorer off of offensive rebounds, but Zion's all-around game is what elevates him above Bagley.

  13. #93
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    Nov 2009
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    Hudson Valley, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Well . . . the play you described was something Marvin Bagley did on a regular basis last season. Let's not get too hyperbolic.

    Bagley probably equaled Zion as a scorer off of offensive rebounds, but Zion's all-around game is what elevates him above Bagley.
    I never saw Bagley do what Zion did on that play...😎

  14. #94
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    Oct 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYBri View Post
    I never saw Bagley do what Zion did on that play...��
    This is pretty damn impressive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZQJzI572Gc

    He beat 3 UNC players for the first rebound off Grayson's shot, then went back up for the put back on his own shot before the 4 UNC players in the paint even realized it was a miss.

    Bagley's second jump actually is quicker than Zion's. But Zion is more explosive and he's much stronger.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    At least you're still alive posting:

    larson-far-side-dinosaur-extinct.jpg
    I told those guys to quit smoking!

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Easiest hard-line delineations would be shot-clock era or 3 point era. It would be hard to put it any time before the 80s
    That's rough. Do you happen to recall the dates of those 2 events?
    Thanks.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    This is pretty damn impressive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZQJzI572Gc

    He beat 3 UNC players for the first rebound off Grayson's shot, then went back up for the put back on his own shot before the 4 UNC players in the paint even realized it was a miss.

    Bagley's second jump actually is quicker than Zion's. But Zion is more explosive and he's much stronger.
    When Bagley made his second or third jump, I would say WOW!, when Zion does it I just say, HOW?

  18. #98
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I think it's quite easy to justify Kyrie over Laettner in a purely talent based top 4. Number of games played at Duke is obviously irrelevant to my list. My list is (IMO) the most talented 4 basketball players to ever play at Duke.

    Kyrie was the 2nd best player on a NBA championship team and has 6 all-star appearances thus far in his career (soon to be 7). Laettner was the best college player of all time, but Kyrie's much more talented. It's not really even close.

    Tyler freakin Hansbrough is the all-time ACC scoring leader. He was a 3 time consensus first team all-american and NCAA champion. He was garbage in the NBA. College is obviously not the highest level of basketball. Laettner was a good borderline all-star level NBA player before his devastating leg injury, but his level of athleticism was not adequate to dominate the pro game the same way he did in college. I think Laettner actually would have thrived in today's NBA much more so than in his time, as a 3 point shooting big man, but he's still no Kyrie.

    For me, the #5 guy who almost made the list but not quite is still not Laettner, Battier, or Redick. It's probably Tatum.
    College is college, and the NBA is the NBA -- they are different games. Non-Duke observers have argued that Laettner is undoubtedly one of the top ten college players of all time and perhaps one of the top five. Four Final Fours and two championships certainly bolster his resume.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    College is college, and the NBA is the NBA -- they are different games. Non-Duke observers have argued that Laettner is undoubtedly one of the top ten college players of all time and perhaps one of the top five. Four Final Fours and two championships certainly bolster his resume.
    Plus, no one has produced thousands of t-shirts that say, "I still hate Kyrie."
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  20. #100
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    Oct 2013
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    Madison, WI
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    College is college, and the NBA is the NBA -- they are different games. Non-Duke observers have argued that Laettner is undoubtedly one of the top ten college players of all time and perhaps one of the top five. Four Final Fours and two championships certainly bolster his resume.
    There's nothing in my post that disputes what you said here . . . in fact, in my own post that you quoted, I literally said Laettner is the greatest college player ever. That was probably aggressive, considering Lew Alcindor averaged 26 and 16 in his 3 years playing for UCLA . . . but sure, Laettner absolutely had the best college career of any Duke player, ever.

    He's just not one of the top 4 or 5 most talented basketball players to play at Duke. I don't think that's an unfair statement. It's just true.

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