UNC academics/scandal talk

[Steven43]

Clearly you haven't heard the kvetching from Roy... The mere threat of punishment was punishment enough to scare off recruits.

::massive eyeroll::

There will never be consensus here on lots of things. One exception is that we all agree UNC skated to a degree that renders the NCAA ineffectual at best, neutered at worst.

Yes, UNC skated. Yes, the NCAA is an embarrassing joke. And most definitely, yes, Roy has been, and maybe continues to be, highly annoying on the subject.

[Spanarkel]

Living and raising kids in the ATL, I got really turned off to UGA by all the rabid fanatics in my work place. Truth be told, I would have had a hard time swallowing writing a check to any SEC school, except Vandy. Luckily I didn't have to endure that!

Since you seem to delight in occasionally posting anti-UGA sentiments, from your disgust at hearing about UGA football year round on sports talk radio to questioning the academic reputation of UGA, I would refer you to numerous other posts on DBR from Duke grads living in the Atlanta metro area who in general seem to feel that UGA grads, while very devoted to its teams, especially football, are mostly reasonable people. Calling UGA fans "rabid fanatics" is hyperbolic and inaccurate.

As you seem to be unaware of this fact, UGA has a number of well-regarded undergraduate/graduate programs, and ranks 46th in USNWR's National Universities. UGA's Public Affairs MBA program is 6th nationally(above Duke's BTW), Veterinary School 10th, and Law School 32nd, just to name a few.

You also seem to be unaware of the University of Florida's no. 32 ranking in National Universities, since you denigrate the entire SEC's academic prowess, save Vandy.

I hope you didn't have to swallow too hard to write checks for your childrens' education at institutions charging 8-10x what an in-state student with the HOPE scholarship would be charged to attend UGA.

[Kfanarmy]

Well, it works for me and I do some hiring at my organization so I guess there is more power to me. I would now strongly question a resume that shows education of any grad from that institution when making a hiring decision. Perhaps my views are not widespread (outside of DBR), but I believe they should be.

agree whole-heartedly. The thing that sticks with me is that there was never pursuit of any potential wrong doing outside of one academic department. There was never an honest attempt to determine what Swofford and personnel in the Athletic department had set up with the other Academic departments. AFAM was, I believe, most likely just the tip of the iceberg. No one looked below the surface, and there was likely a lot more ice there.

[Kfanarmy]

Since you seem to delight in occasionally posting anti-UGA sentiments, from your disgust at hearing about UGA football year round on sports talk radio to questioning the academic reputation of UGA, I would refer you to numerous other posts on DBR from Duke grads living in the Atlanta metro area who in general seem to feel that UGA grads, while very devoted to its teams, especially football, are mostly reasonable people. Calling UGA fans "rabid fanatics" is hyperbolic and inaccurate.

As you seem to be unaware of this fact, UGA has a number of well-regarded undergraduate/graduate programs, and ranks 46th in USNWR's National Universities. UGA's Public Affairs MBA program is 6th nationally(above Duke's BTW), Veterinary School 10th, and Law School 32nd, just to name a few.

You also seem to be unaware of the University of Florida's no. 32 ranking in National Universities, since you denigrate the entire SEC's academic prowess, save Vandy.

I hope you didn't have to swallow too hard to write checks for your childrens' education at institutions charging 8-10x what an in-state student with the HOPE scholarship would be charged to attend UGA.

isn't "fan" short for "fanatic?" One of the synonyms for "rabid" is "fanatical." It just doesn't seem too harsh an assessment in the context of college sports.

[JStuart]

agree whole-heartedly. The thing that sticks with me is that there was never pursuit of any potential wrong doing outside of one academic department. There was never an honest attempt to determine what Swofford and personnel in the Athletic department had set up with the other Academic departments. AFAM was, I believe, most likely just the tip of the iceberg. No one looked below the surface, and there was likely a lot more ice there.

Also, it was reported that the fellow doing the real review -not Jim Martin's whitewash- offered to look into, and follow leads toward, other departments (for a big discount when Folt complained about how much he was charging) he was quickly told that they only authorized the AFAM section, period! Not too suspicious, right?

I had heard rumors long ago that unc had their crip courses for athletics in the Portuguese department. Little did any of us imagine that they would simply create courses out of thin air, have a secretary grade the only paper assigned, which was plagierized, and submitted multiple times.

I had hoped that someday Al Featherston and Dan Kane would combine to write the definitive book on the entire thing, but I just don't think that will happen now...maybe Dan is burning the midnight oil?

[Spanarkel]

isn't "fan" short for "fanatic?" One of the synonyms for "rabid" is "fanatical." It just doesn't seem too harsh an assessment in the context of college sports.

Yes, fan is a shortened version of fanatic.

Rabid in current American English doesn't usually have very positive connotations("going to extreme lengths in pursuit or support of an interest...").

It's pretty clear what the poster's(BandAlum83) intentions were(to me at least)by his choice of language. He wasn't only categorizing a fan base, which in reality is unlikely to be much if at all different from multiple other universities' fan bases, he was throwing shade on a university's main mission(higher learning)based on its fan base. Not sure it's too accurate to judge a university/college by what someone observes of its football/other sports fans.

[blUDAYvil]

UNC ranking in the US News and World report for each year from 2008 through 2015: 28, 30, 28, 30, 29, 30, 30, 30 (http://publicuniversityhonors.com/20...-2008-present/)

Ranking in 2018: 30

The scandal has had a negligible impact on UNC's academic reputation.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Not sure it's too accurate to judge a university/college by what someone observes of its football/other sports fans.

I assume you meant to add “other than UNC” to that statement.

[BD80]

Can't pinpoint the time, but the unc diploma must have been devalued somewhere along the line. They are available for purchase at "value" stores.

That's how we have "Walmart tar heels," right?

[DukieInBrasil]

I told my kids they could go to any college they wanted to, but if they chose UNC or UGA, I wouldn't be paying for it!

Hey! I'm a double UGA grad (Master's and PhD) and i can say with all confidence that there is absolutely wrong with an education from UGA. In fact there is a lot more access to undergrad research and laboratory experience at UGA than some very expensive liberal arts schools like the one i went to for my undergrad. UGA may not be worth out-of-state tuition for certain typical degrees, but for example, the Forestry school is considered the best in the country. The Terry School of Business is highly regarded, as is the Grady School of Journalism.

[OldPhiKap]

Hey! I'm a double UGA grad (Master's and PhD) and i can say with all confidence that there is absolutely wrong with an education from UGA. In fact there is a lot more access to undergrad research and laboratory experience at UGA than some very expensive liberal arts schools like the one i went to for my undergrad. UGA may not be worth out-of-state tuition for certain typical degrees, but for example, the Forestry school is considered the best in the country. The Terry School of Business is highly regarded, as is the Grady School of Journalism.

UGA is an outstanding institution, agreed. And I have no affiliation, direct nor familial.

[BandAlum83]

Since you seem to delight in occasionally posting anti-UGA sentiments, from your disgust at hearing about UGA football year round on sports talk radio to questioning the academic reputation of UGA, I would refer you to numerous other posts on DBR from Duke grads living in the Atlanta metro area who in general seem to feel that UGA grads, while very devoted to its teams, especially football, are mostly reasonable people. Calling UGA fans "rabid fanatics" is hyperbolic and inaccurate.

As you seem to be unaware of this fact, UGA has a number of well-regarded undergraduate/graduate programs, and ranks 46th in USNWR's National Universities. UGA's Public Affairs MBA program is 6th nationally(above Duke's BTW), Veterinary School 10th, and Law School 32nd, just to name a few.

You also seem to be unaware of the University of Florida's no. 32 ranking in National Universities, since you denigrate the entire SEC's academic prowess, save Vandy.

I hope you didn't have to swallow too hard to write checks for your childrens' education at institutions charging 8-10x what an in-state student with the HOPE scholarship would be charged to attend UGA.

I’m sorry if my post offended you. It was not my intention. I have clearly hit a nerve, and my comment was just a comment on the fanaticism I get from SEC fans in general.

Both of my kids chose to go to college in Atlanta. Both went to schools that do not have college athletics as a significant part of the college experience. Both of my kids received the Hope Scolarship, although for one it was a drop in the bucket of the tuition because he went to a private institution. Both made their own choice and I would have paid for UGA and UNC, despite the joke. And they both knew that.

I NEVER said or implied that UNC or the SEC had deficient academic programs. I commented only on the fanaticism of the SEC sporting environment. I didn’t go to Duke for division I sports. I’m from NY. I didn’t even know what college sports were. Duke basketball and football (and DUMB) became a nice bonus for me. But it wasn’t the only thing.

Th GA university system has many top-flight academic programs. Many of those programs and schools aren’t in Athens. Your post goes well beyond what I was saying. There is no need to put words or intent in my mouth.

So, sorry for any offense, but slow your roll and chill, dude.

[Wander]

UNC ranking in the US News and World report for each year from 2008 through 2015: 28, 30, 28, 30, 29, 30, 30, 30 (http://publicuniversityhonors.com/20...-2008-present/)

Ranking in 2018: 30

The scandal has had a negligible impact on UNC's academic reputation.

Yeah, people who aren't sports fans barely even know about the scandal.

The idea that it should affect the hiring decision of a non-athlete in the physics department or whatever is laughable.

That said, yup, we all agree that the UNC teams got off laughably easy and deserved a much harsher punishment. UNC and Penn State both deserved the death penalty for a year.

[Spanarkel]

I’m sorry if my post offended you. It was not my intention. I have clearly hit a nerve, and my comment was just a comment on the fanaticism I get from SEC fans in general.

Both of my kids chose to go to college in Atlanta. Both went to schools that do not have college athletics as a significant part of the college experience. Both of my kids received the Hope Scolarship, although for one it was a drop in the bucket of the tuition because he went to a private institution. Both made their own choice and I would have paid for UGA and UNC, despite the joke. And they both knew that.

I NEVER said or implied that UNC or the SEC had deficient academic programs. I commented only on the fanaticism of the SEC sporting environment. I didn’t go to Duke for division I sports. I’m from NY. I didn’t even know what college sports were. Duke basketball and football (and DUMB) became a nice bonus for me. But it wasn’t the only thing.

Th GA university system has many top-flight academic programs. Many of those programs and schools aren’t in Athens. Your post goes well beyond what I was saying. There is no need to put words or intent in my mouth.

So, sorry for any offense, but slow your roll and chill, dude.

Sure, I'm fine with the above, and I typically enjoy your posts. Sorry if I put words/intent in your mouth. DBR is a significant part of my daily existence(for better or worse). Let's go, Duke!

[UrinalCake]

I haven’t read through this whole thread but wanted to remind everyone that three years ago this week, UNC admitted to their accrediting agency that they had committed academic fraud. The relevant paragraph of their response to SACS is quoted below. For this they became the first tier-1 research university to be placed on academic probation. They would later go on to tell the NCAA that this was a “typo.”

The University is in complete agreement with the Commission’s observations that the Wainstein investigation uncovered important and new information about the scope and extent of the irregularities in Carolina’s AFAM Department—the product, as Carolina expected, of the important and breakthrough access Wainstein had to Julius Nyang’oro and Deborah Crowder and thousands of documents gathered in the District Attorney’s criminal investigation. The Wainstein report explains this information at length and in significant detail and demonstrates, as SACSCOC correctly observes, that the academic fraud was long-standing and not limited to the misconduct of just Nyang’oro and Crowder...

Link

[JStuart]

I haven’t read through this whole thread but wanted to remind everyone that three years ago this week, UNC admitted to their accrediting agency that they had committed academic fraud. The relevant paragraph of their response to SACS is quoted below. For this they became the first tier-1 research university to be placed on academic probation. They would later go on to tell the NCAA that this was a “typo.”



Link

This cannot be emphasized enough, and I'd support pinning this to the top of the boards for posterity.
Where else do you think it might be posted; surely not on the unc boards, or WRAL-TV.
I keep hoping to see that Dan Kane will come out with either a book, or a new review set of articles in the N&O...
Where is Big Al Featherston (R.I.P) when we need him, alas.
JStuart

[House G]

My comments are going to seem harsh...allow me to apologize in advance if they offend. But, this is how I feel about the lying, cheating, scumbags who have harmed what was one a great institution.


UNC has traditionally been one of the "public ivies" along with Michigan, Virginia, Texas, Cal, and a couple others... public schools that offered some of the finest educations in the country. Those schools took great pride in that distinction and everyone knew a degree from one of those institutions meant the student was bright, hard-working, and well educated.

Carolina chose to throw that reputation to the curb, to spit on it, and ignore the lasting implications for tens of thousands of current and past students all so they could experience a little more success in football and basketball.

If we now mock UNC and show a lack of respect for the quality of the education provided there, that is the fault of the amoral administrators and leaders who allowed that scandal to happen and then refused to show any remorse or responsibility for it. What's more, I believe the students, alumnus, and professors who continue to remain largely silent about the scandal share an almost equal amount of blame. If 10,000 UNC students/alumni marched on the administration building demanding true punishment and accountability for their degrees being tainted, you can bet something meaningful would be done. If hundreds of professors went on strike insisting that the school take real action to purge itself of the folks who allowed this to happen and made meaningful changes to ensure it never happens again, something would be done.

But, these sheep continue to cheer for the sports teams and laugh at the NCAA for not punishing them. I only lament that we cannot do more than make fun of them and ridicule their education. Your daughter is attending a school that does not truly care about education, a school that thinks its basketball and football teams are more important than its educational reputation. If she is inadvertently affected by scorn directed at this formerly admirable administration, well I just can't bring myself to feel sorry for her. My two sons were looking at schools a few years ago and we ordinarily might have considered Carolina (many in my family went there). But we did not and at least part of the reason is that we believed Carolina's reputation had been permanently harmed.

-Jason "my statement here may seem harsh, but this is the reality of what happens when your school forgets why it really exists and what is really important" Evans

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